Ulster is a very competitive championship. There are always good battles to watch despite what some might say. Is there an explanation for Derry, Fermanagh and Antrim bowing out to non-Ulster opposition?

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7844 - 05/07/2014 18:32:01    1614156

Yes. Fermanagh and Antrim are by far the weakest in the province.

Derry will be very disappointed with their championship. You would have to ask a Derry man what went wrong against Longford.

JP91 (Armagh) - Posts: 316 - 05/07/2014 18:55:44    1614171

Derry just could not handle a blanket defence.
I also feel that once they were out of the Ulster Championship they lost heart.

MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5028 - 05/07/2014 19:05:02    1614178

explaination is that we are not as strong as some people think. tipp gave longford (who beat derry) a hell of a trashing today. so those who laugh at the perceived weakness of the "lesser" munster counties, sit up and take notice. I for one would not fancy my chances in the championship against the likes of ; clare,limerick or tipperary.

s goldrick (Cavan) - Posts: 5518 - 05/07/2014 19:18:17    1614180

Clare, Limerick and Tipperary have benefited from a Munster quarter-final under their belts. They wouldn't vote for it but seeding Munster finalists is possibly to their advantage as well in terms of their development.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7844 - 05/07/2014 19:52:10    1614199

Goldrick

But u fancied your chances against Armagh who gave yas a hiding.

Antrim and Fermanagh out of championship early - nothing to see here!

Brolly (Monaghan) - Posts: 4472 - 05/07/2014 20:11:03    1614207

legendzxix
County: Kerry
Posts: 3276

1614199
Clare, Limerick and Tipperary have benefited from a Munster quarter-final under their belts. They wouldn't vote for it but seeding Munster finalists is possibly to their advantage as well in terms of their develop


Didn't Clare propose the seeding in the first place??

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5012 - 06/07/2014 13:21:23    1614464

s goldrick
County: Cavan
Posts: 2945

1614180
explaination is that we are not as strong as some people think. tipp gave longford (who beat derry) a hell of a trashing today. so those who laugh at the perceived weakness of the "lesser" munster counties, sit up and take notice. I for one would not fancy my chances in the championship against the likes of ; clare,limerick or tipperary.

I agree that the gap is closing rapidly between the perceived weaker counties and the main ones, for one big game at least.

But I disagree in the theory that A is better than B because B got stuffed by C and A beat C. A lot of this is on the day as well as tactics and morale. Psychology comes into this, a team can be a totally transformed team in 2 weeks. Look at the record of beaten provincial finalists, very very few go out the following game and stay in the championship no mater how well they have played up until then.

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3830 - 06/07/2014 14:08:50    1614506

Ulster is dreadfully poor at the minute; the standard is as bad as I can remember and I don't know what that's down to. If Ulster Gaels were honest about Gaelic Games in the province at the minute they would admit they are struggling and the fare is pretty awful to watch. Tyrone seem to have a big white elephant at Garvaghey which isn't producing the talent while Armagh and Down are pale shadows of once great counties. Fermanagh and Antrim are lost causes while Derry is not doing too badly. Donegal look like they could cause an upset and maybe knock one of the other All Ireland contenders out but Monaghan and Cavan won't break any delph outside Ulster. It will be a long time before a National League or All Ireland success comes back to Ulster.

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9702 - 06/07/2014 14:34:37    1614521

ulsterman you are way off the mark...the standard in ulster football has more depth than other provinces...fermanagh and antrim lost because they are among the weakest counties in the country...derry are still a decent team..they just had a very poor day against a poor team.
ulster still has 4 counties in the top 10 teams in the country...tyrone, donegal, monaghan and derry, with down armagh and cavan in the top 16 teams in the country...no other province can boast that quality...leinster despite being the largest province only have 4 counties in the top 16...dublin, meath, kildare and laois

mayotyroneman (Tyrone) - Posts: 1821 - 06/07/2014 19:36:33    1614763

legendzxix
County: Kerry
Posts: 3287

1614156
Ulster is a very competitive championship. There are always good battles to watch despite what some might say. Is there an explanation for Derry, Fermanagh and Antrim bowing out to non-Ulster opposition?

In the case of Fermanagh, they were bested by a better side. While Laois did only win by a score, It was more to do with them not being motivated by playing a minnow side like Fermanagh after previously playing a huge game with Dublin in Croke Park.

The other two just couldn't get motivated to play minnows after scaling the dizzy heights of playing Donegal in the Ulster Championship. Specifically in Antrims case, conceding 2 penalties likely had a significant Impact to their 1 point loss.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 06/07/2014 20:14:40    1614793

Lets see how cavan and down get on next week at home against perceived light weights they are 2 of the stronger teams in ulster not at the top but up there
This I think will judge ulster standard this year at this point

OhtobeARossie (Roscommon) - Posts: 1764 - 06/07/2014 20:26:55    1614799

OhtobeARossie
County: Roscommon
Posts: 20

1614799
Lets see how cavan and down get on next week at home against perceived light weights they are 2 of the stronger teams in ulster not at the top but up there
This I think will judge ulster standard this year at this point

I think Cavan look weaker this year, they seem to be lacking legs from what I've seen in comparison to last season. Perhaps losing Killian Clarke has altered their system slightly. They are ahead of Antrim and Fermanagh, but I would say only Just.

I do fancy Down to take Kildare though, Down are formidable side and Newry is an exceptionally tough place to go. They will see Kildare as a team they can rattle.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 06/07/2014 20:37:23    1614812

I don't see how legs could be gone in a team that has won 4 provincial u21 titles in a row and to rate them as the third worst team in ulster doesnt say much for the underage teams in the last few years
I would think they are a lot better than you think and down might not be I actually fancy kildare in that tie

OhtobeARossie (Roscommon) - Posts: 1764 - 06/07/2014 21:13:26    1614830

OhtobeARossie
Lets see how cavan and down get on next week at home against perceived light weights

Well they did not get too good at all. Like many, I expected them to kick on from last year's AI quarter-final. All four Ulster counties knocked out so far have been by non-Ulster counties. Tyrone v Armagh will be the first time an Ulster county will knock out another Ulster county. Down v Kildare should be a good game, many wouldn't be surprised to see Down win and get drawn against the winner of the all-Ulster tie. It's the way these draws tend to go at times. Offaly were knocked out by Wicklow in 1A and Wexford by Laois in 2A. All-same provincial clashes are going to occur.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7844 - 13/07/2014 08:24:30    1618066

The bottom line is this :::
Leinster----Dublin by a mile::: then Meath.
Connaught--- Mayo
Munster---Kerry---at the start of the championship people were putting Cork in front of Kerry.. Could or have Tipperary overtaken Cork. ??
Now the provience that's harder to figure out
As I see it until next Sunday at least----Donegal/Monaghan ---- then you have Tyrone/down/Armagh.
Now the Ulster teams who are gone out of the championship ,expect Derry would not have been fancied to won the Anglo -Celt. Antrim play div 4, Fermanagh div3 and Cavan came up from div3 this year. The five teams I mentioned above are probably in the top 12/14 teams in Ireland and most of them are well capable of giving any of the Southern teams a good run for it.
Next Sunday we will see what the Ulster final produces but I still have Donegal /Monaghan in the top four in Ireland at the moment. For one of them to get to the AI final they will have to beat Dublin. But just because the 4 Ulster teams who have been beat by teams outside the provience , it's won't set off alarms bells here and I know fine well Monaghan/Donegal and even Tyrone/Down can be depended on to be very competitive in CP in August or even Sept if one of them gets there.

SamOnErrigal (Donegal) - Posts: 1427 - 13/07/2014 10:49:49    1618125

Ulster generally is probably in a bit of a dip at the minute but measuring Ulster on the basis of Antrim, Fermanagh and Cavan is stupid. Derry was the only shock so far though they do have previous against Longford and a lot of the expectation regarding Derry came from this years league as they would not have been considered strong at the beginning of the year.

For me Ulster in terms of strength is:
Monaghan and Donegal
Tyrone
Armagh and Down
Derry
Cavan
Antrim and Fermanagh

Naysayer (Antrim) - Posts: 2071 - 13/07/2014 11:42:01    1618146

I wouldn't say anyone is measuring Ulster based on the teams knocked out so far. With the Ulster championship being so competitive though there is an expectation Ulster teams will be more battle hardened for the qualifiers. Tyrone v Armagh and Donegal v Monaghan next week should be some of the fiercest battles of the summer.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7844 - 13/07/2014 11:51:15    1618148

So further to my previous post if you want to measure other provinces against Ulster it should be as follows:
Donegal v Dublin
Monaghan v Meath
Tyrone v Kildare
Armagh or Down v Wexford or Laois

Donegal v Mayo
Monaghan v Galway
Tyrone v Roscommon
Armagh or Down v Sligo

Donegal v Kerry
Monaghan v Cork
Tyrone v Tipperary
Armagh or Down v Limerick


I reckon that Ulster would not fare as well as previous years in such scenarios but I would still fancy them to come out on top in three quarters of games against each province.

Naysayer (Antrim) - Posts: 2071 - 13/07/2014 11:56:48    1618151

GaryMc82
County: Derry
Posts: 1192

1614812
OhtobeARossie
County: Roscommon
Posts: 20

1614799
Lets see how cavan and down get on next week at home against perceived light weights they are 2 of the stronger teams in ulster not at the top but up there
This I think will judge ulster standard this year at this point

I think Cavan look weaker this year, they seem to be lacking legs from what I've seen in comparison to last season. Perhaps losing Killian Clarke has altered their system slightly. They are ahead of Antrim and Fermanagh, but I would say only Just.



Fair play to Roscommon last night. I don't know If Cavan have gone backwards, but perhaps they have failed to push on this season. But as I said back in 6th of July, Cavan don't look to have the legs this season and are probably 7th or 8th in ranking of Ulster teams.

In saying that, It is still clear from Roscommon rattling Mayo that they have moved it up a gear this year, and are very formidable outfit.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 13/07/2014 12:02:11    1618156