Tomsmith here

I just wonder who is running the well oiled Black card PR machine.
It is doing a great a great job, and indeed if one didn't know any thing different you would think by the great publicity that this was a great move.Well I say wait until the players get into active competition and the manager from -------- is looking for points to avoid relegation and he gets his star forward /back sent off we will see how the black card is defended.
I do hope that all in favour stand up and be counted, when all hell breaks loose.
Youse have been warned this is a disaster ( Black card rule) in its present form.
Scrap it now before we are the laughing stock of Ireland

tomsmith (Cavan) - Posts: 3857 - 20/01/2014 20:50:19    1534470

I don't think a manager ranting and raving will make much difference. They will just have to start coaching proper defending and not just stopping the player. Sure refs will get it wrong but its in now so we may get used to it

lillyboy (Kildare) - Posts: 429 - 20/01/2014 21:08:08    1534487

True, but then you could be a manager desperately looking for a score to avoid relegation and watching your players being repeatedly dragged down which has been the case until now. Everyone knows that which is why people are now giving it a chance.

As for being the laughing stock of Ireland? Have a bit of backbone, I was at the RDS on Friday and saw a player have his head stamped on. I don't see anyone getting too bothered about it. Why? because one team wasn't Irish...

There's nothing worse than the insecurity Irish people have about themselves. The GAA will be fine whatever happens. We all need to start having a bit of confidence in the association and not to be afraid to try and change what's obviously wrong and staring us in the face.

doublehop (Kildare) - Posts: 4172 - 20/01/2014 21:16:28    1534489

Tomsmith here
Look Doublehop

Wasent all part of the game to see fellows fouling and trying to get away with it.
Sure in my own County if a big fight was expected in a game sure the park/field would be full of spectators

tomsmith (Cavan) - Posts: 3857 - 20/01/2014 22:01:30    1534515

Whoever is running the "well oiled Black card PR machine" - as you so dramatically put it, has no idea how the new rules will pan out - no more than you Tom. Your argument is erroneous, highlighted by your "laughing stock" comment. You're clutching at straws pal.

Floops (Dublin) - Posts: 1623 - 21/01/2014 09:46:24    1534525

Floops doublehop and lillyboy I agree with ye, we got to give it a chance, in a couple of years we could be thanking the GAA for this, plus it's great for the panel as a whole there will be guys getting games now that wouldn't have before.

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 21/01/2014 10:19:35    1534535

Gaelic football needed something to be done to stop the pulling and dragging. I would have left Refs dish out more yellows and reds myself, but the GAA have brought in a black card to sort out the ***** that was being classed as sport. By the year end we may even see entertaining, flowing football again.

Clubgaa (Limerick) - Posts: 879 - 21/01/2014 11:35:20    1534565

Whats the story with this black card if ya have all your subs used? monaghan used seven subs last w/e two of them to black cards when six subs was all you could use, their last sub(seventh) was mcelroy for walshe(BC)....? and still finished the game with 15 men is that correct ?

neilarmstron9 (Cavan) - Posts: 110 - 21/01/2014 12:59:50    1534606

Well if you listen to Radio 1's GAA coverage you would see that there is a serious anti black card PR campaign. Geniuses like Tommy Carr and Bernard Flynn were totally against the black card after 1 or 2 rounds of mickey mouse games. Any interviews I hear with managers appear to be totally anti black card also. Everybody needs to give it a few months until players and referees get used to the idea of the black card and then the rules can be applied without the unnecessary kerfuffel.

pdempsey (Mayo) - Posts: 1313 - 21/01/2014 14:26:55    1534650

Neilarmstrong9 rule states that only six substitutions allowed in the game with only 3 of these being able to be used for black card offences. So if a team has had 2 black cards already and used their other 4 subs as normal they have used their full allocation and another back card would result in them being reduced to 14 men. In the case u describe this didn't happen and the only reason for that is that one of the substitutions made was a blood sub replacement which is still done under normal rule, nothing affecting the allocation of 6 for the game. Other than that a genuine error would of been made.
So basically only 6 subs overall can be made including the black card subs of which only 3 can be used in game your 4 and subsequent black cards would result in reducing the team to 14 and so on.
Blood subs don't affect the 6 subs.
Mistakes have and will be made in the first few weeks and it is great to have the early season competitions to iron them out before serious business starts in leagues and c/ship.

urhavinalaugh (Carlow) - Posts: 73 - 21/01/2014 14:28:14    1534651

I think the thing is a load of ill-thought-out rubbish. If they are going to impose this against the wishes of managers, then why didn't they impose the sin bin, which would have been a much more logical penalty for pulling and dragging? The GAA is as inconsistent as it's referees. And this rule has already resulted in even more refereeing inconsistency.

Midleton (Cork) - Posts: 643 - 21/01/2014 14:52:33    1534676

Further down the line the black card will cause more confusion when the black is combined with yellows. As far as I'm aware, A player on a yellow who gets a subsequent black card must leave the field and cannot be replaced, even if he's the first off on a black card. I would have preferred to see the sin bin restored and it was tried a number of years back in the national leagues but was done away with for the championships. We could see the same thing here, no black cards for the championship.

tazz (Westmeath) - Posts: 52 - 21/01/2014 15:28:22    1534715

The problem is that the current yellow/red card system doesn't work. It was taken directly from soccer instead of the GAA using some initiative and trying to come up with their own system. The black card is an attempt to fix the problem caused by the GAA themselves.
Surely a 5 or 7 minutes in a sin bin is a better punishment for the fouls in question.

AC (None) - Posts: 318 - 21/01/2014 15:29:45    1534718

Tomsmith here

In relation to your post

neilarmstron9
County: Cavan
Posts: 80

1534606 Whats the story with this black card if ya have all your subs used? monaghan used seven subs last w/e two of them to black cards when six subs was all you could use, their last sub(seventh) was mcelroy for walshe(BC)....? and still finished the game with 15 men is that correct ?

It would be best that you would get some pre-posting advice on the Gaa rules
Monaghan did not use seven subs, Monaghan used six subs plus one Blood replacement.
Get the thing right a sub and a replacement is a hell of a difference in GAA rules

tomsmith (Cavan) - Posts: 3857 - 23/01/2014 11:00:56    1535515

The problem is that many adversaries to the black card seem to lack perspective in my opinion. It should be completely known that it is only reckless management and application by all that has led to the need for this. If the rules were respected and the game was played to the confines of them we would have no need for such measures.

Whats clear, is that many people seem comfortable with teams winning matches while breaking the rules of the game. In my view at the core of this problem is a fundamental disregard for the game itself and this stems for poor application of respect at development age. All counties engage in this behaviour, some worse than others, but it is a nationwide issue.

The GAA are obviously part and parcel of the issue too, in that they have allowed current attitudes in the game to undermine the ethos of fairplay in their rules. They lacked foresight and didn't react quickly enough. I don't see how anyone with a gra for gaelic football can't objectively see we have a problem with how teams set out to break the rules to their own benefit without punishment. It doesn't make any sense in my view.

The objective of sport is to win and be better than your opponent by adhering to the same rules. Why play sport if you can't respect that? Its a very basic concept, a level playing field is the core of what rules are for. If everybody shows disregard for the rules we don't have a game where the beauty of tactics and skill can triumph.

I can understand a debate surrounding whether the black card was the correct measure, and there is a legitimate debate to be had there, but some people still don't see that we have a problem. And that shows the extent in terms of how far things have been let go. Basically in todays game cheating appears normal to some, perhaps so normal they don't even recognise it, while others are only too happy to use it. It really is a sad case of affairs.

seany16 (Dublin) - Posts: 1658 - 23/01/2014 13:48:57    1535634

I see on the HS main page that this caused big problems in Kerry school football yesterday. This is only the start of the biggest self inflicted cock up the GAA has ever brought on itself. Just watch the fall out when this starts to affect county teams chasing League points and Championship wins. Apart from getting the basic rule wrong interpreting cynicism and deliberate fouling on the football pitch is open to the officials opinion and human behaviour being what it is it will be hard for a referee or umpire not to be influenced by big crowds in a packed stadium.

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9702 - 23/01/2014 13:52:09    1535637

McEnaney: time will tell on black cards
06 February 2014


Pat McEnaney Chairman of the National Referees' Association.It's too early as far as Referees boss Pat McEnaney is concerned to be making any judgements on the relatively low number of black cards issued on the first weekend of the Allianz Football Leagues.

Only nine cards were handed out over the four divisions last weekend but McEnaney says it would be premature to draw any conclusions from that statistic.

"We'll have a look at the stats after halfway through in the league and we'll have a better picture of how successful or unsuccessful the black card is," he said to the Irish Daily Star, "I'm making no judgement on it at the moment.

"We'll review it half-way through the league and then come up with some facts and figures, but not after the first or second game."


Tomsmith here.

It is with deep suspicion that I read the above article penned by a member of the GAA who was a high ranking Referee.
At least Mc Enaney has his doubts and he is not welcoming this outrageous (In its present form) rule with open arms.
I feel that if we could get another few Referees ( Who are able to criticise it no All Ireland ambitions) to come out in the open and say as it is that it is a shambles in its present form I feel we will get it scrapped .

tomsmith (Cavan) - Posts: 3857 - 06/02/2014 09:49:02    1542080

keep saying often enough and you'l believe it. two went in the kildare/ mayo match and Hurley should have went to.

lillyboy (Kildare) - Posts: 429 - 06/02/2014 11:22:03    1542130

We won't see the full extent of the problems that the black card will bring until club games commence in earnest.

ringo (Wexford) - Posts: 384 - 06/02/2014 11:41:25    1542145

Tom,
No harm to you but you are talking rubbish.

Give the black card a chance, you may well be right & it may well not work but if the scoring last weekend is anything to go by then players are a lot slower to haul opponents down.

MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5028 - 06/02/2014 12:12:59    1542158