Great article in the times - what if hitler had invaded?

link

It may upset the celtic barstoolers but if it wasnt for the british army we would have lost our freedom and become an enslaved people. The nazis considered the irish a subhuman race and the consequences if the nazi had invaded are too dire to imagine. While we were neutral, the British and others fought and died to protect the freedom of the people of europe including ourselves. Declaring ourselves neutral in a war against nazism- the vilest evil possible was absolutely disgraceful, thankfully others stood and fought.

bad.monkey (USA) - Posts: 4678 - 30/06/2010 13:32:07    691924

bad.monkey
County: USA
Posts: 2234

691924 Great article in the times - what if hitler had invaded?

link

It may upset the celtic barstoolers but if it wasnt for the british army we would have lost our freedom and become an enslaved people. The nazis considered the irish a subhuman race and the consequences if the nazi had invaded are too dire to imagine. While we were neutral, the British and others fought and died to protect the freedom of the people of europe including ourselves. Declaring ourselves neutral in a war against nazism- the vilest evil possible was absolutely disgraceful, thankfully others stood and fought
---------------------------------
Unlike the British who considered the Irish a sub-human race (have a look at some of the old Punch cartoons for instance).

brendtheredhand (Tyrone) - Posts: 10897 - 30/06/2010 13:49:49    691954

The nazis considered the irish a subhuman race

Source?

Practically every other small European country declared itself neutral in 1939, Ireland was just lucky to be out of Germany's reach. Don't see how that made us any more 'disgraceful' than Norway, Denmark, Portugal etc.

The country had been independent for less than 20 years. The Black and Tans etc were a recent memory and partition was still a burning issue, it's a little understanable there wasn't a desire to jump into bed with Britain over what (in 1939) was a territorial dispute in central Europe.

whereangelsplay (Cork) - Posts: 240 - 30/06/2010 14:03:39    691986

Bad Monkey... you have a valid point but I just wanted to say that 1n 1914 - 40% of the British Army were made up of Irish men.

We fought in Europe 30 years prior, tens of thousands of Irish men died fighting the Germans the first time around, fighting to keep the freedom of Europe alive.

We were promised so much, but received nothing in return.

The mistakes of WW1 (The Treaty of Versailles) drafted by the British and her Allies resulted in an atmosphere of such desperation in Germany, which later paved the way for Adolf Hitler to set up the Nazi Party that fed on the German populations desperation.

The German people were promised so much, but received nothing in return.

The British went to war to protect Poland from the Nazis... after winning the war the Germans left, and were replaced by the Soviets.

The Polish people were promised so much, but received decades of torture in return.

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20763 - 30/06/2010 14:06:03    692000

To be fair, if the Battle of Britain was a football match, we would have all been roaring for the Brits! And if we werent, then you dont know your history!!
The Irish men who died in the second world war fought as much for Ireland as Britain lads.
Huge respect is due to those men.

Mikeynora (Limerick) - Posts: 888 - 30/06/2010 14:15:24    692017

Read Kevin Myers piece in the Indo today. The Nazi's had no serious intention of invading Ireland. It was a plan of last resort. The aerial assaults that lead to the Battle of Britain were made with the intention of bullying the Brits to the negotiating table.

Launching an amphibious invasion of Britain would have been nearly impossible for Germany, especially considering that it would have had to contend with the British Navy, which was light-years ahead of the German Navy at the time.

As for the issue of us taking a "shameful" position of neutrality? Take a look at Myers statistics in relation to British Jews enlisting in the British Army. In 1939 nobody outside of Hitler's inner circle knew of the Final Solution. Oppression and ghettoisation of the Jews under Nazi control was evident, but similar action had been undertaken against many races thoughout the 19th century (including Jews and Arabs under British control) without ever leading to genocide.
Nobody knew what Hitler had planned, so trying to brand Ireland as "shameful" for failing to predict the Holocaust is a bit of a stretch.

black&white (Sligo) - Posts: 1628 - 30/06/2010 14:18:42    692019

Mikeynora
County: Limerick
Posts: 556

692017 To be fair, if the Battle of Britain was a football match, we would have all been roaring for the Brits! And if we werent, then you dont know your history!!


Not me, I love the technical possession-football approach employed by the Germans........... Nothin' against the Brits, fine fellows the lot, I just don't like long-ball..

Pedrito (Dublin) - Posts: 1111 - 30/06/2010 14:27:47    692032

Operation Green is generally regarded as having been a deception. Hitler is also recorded as having said that the Germans would only send its forces into Ireland if requested by the Irish Government. The notion that WWII was a moral crusade is rubbish. It was fought over exactly the same things that WWI had been fought - power in Europe. The Holocaust was not a motivating factor and of course the alliance included the Soviet Union which in terms of longevity and numbers of people it murdered was worse that the Nazis.

hurlingdub (Dublin) - Posts: 6978 - 30/06/2010 14:42:35    692054

The Nazis didn't do anything different to any of the Allies during their colonial periods (pre- and post-WWII) in the rest of the world.

Calling them the greatest evil is a highly selective view of history, they were one of many.

Benandonner (Antrim) - Posts: 459 - 30/06/2010 14:51:22    692069

the vilest evil possible

They'd be up near the top alright for what they did to the Jews... but given half the chance I can name 4 or 5 countries in the here and now that would make the Nazis look fairly average on dishing out punishment to the Jews.

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20763 - 30/06/2010 16:09:57    692187

You could have had young Francie Og Schwinstiger scoring the winning point from 50 metres in Croke Park on the 3rd Sun in Sept !!

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 30/06/2010 17:52:25    692370

whereangelsplay
County: Cork
Posts: 51


here here

pidge (Cork) - Posts: 543 - 30/06/2010 17:59:48    692381

what if hitler had invaded?

My history teacher always castigated any boy in our class who used the word 'if' in an historical analysis, "when you here a man say 'if' lads brace yourselfs' because he is about to rewrite history". I have a feeling badmonkey would dearly love to do this with certain aspects of Ireland's history...... alas he can't.

artisan (Down) - Posts: 1795 - 30/06/2010 18:03:37    692388

jimbodub
County: Dublin
Posts: 5828

692187 the vilest evil possible

They'd be up near the top alright for what they did to the Jews... but given half the chance I can name 4 or 5 countries in the here and now that would make the Nazis look fairly average on dishing out punishment to the Jews.

wow, please go ahead...

bad.monkey (USA) - Posts: 4678 - 30/06/2010 18:12:27    692405

badmonkey.us.a.
now tell me this what would hitler have done , that the british had not already done , we suffered for 800 years of british rule murder tryanny , and oppression , and u expect de valera to open up the ports to churchill , and is this the same churchill that would have had ireland in ruins if he had his own way , in my ipinion hitler and churchill were no different from one another .. he hated the irish and everthing about us.
so no we were right to stay nuetral and not bow down to that war mongrel , who all of a sudden needed our help.

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 30/06/2010 18:18:11    692411

Whilst I agree that a Nazi invasion would have been devastating maybe even worse than the Norman (who where primarily German) and English invasions!, Ireland remains in wait for the freedom she yerns for!

These heros who saved us from the Nazis aslo viewed the Irish as sub-human and that is why they tried to quash all things Irish such as past-times, language and music etc as well as the Catholic religon in Ireland. Now-a-days this is called Ethnic Cleansing!!

Now there is no doubt Hitler and co where pure evil but there was similar closer to home...Cromwell!

wise_guy (Tyrone) - Posts: 1584 - 30/06/2010 18:21:30    692418

Whilst I agree that a Nazi invasion would have been devastating maybe even worse than the Norman (who where primarily German) and English invasions!, Ireland remains in wait for the freedom she yerns for!

These heros who saved us from the Nazis aslo viewed the Irish as sub-human and that is why they tried to quash all things Irish such as past-times, language and music etc as well as the Catholic religon in Ireland. Now-a-days this is called Ethnic Cleansing!!

Now there is no doubt Hitler and co where pure evil but there was similar closer to home...Cromwell!

wise_guy (Tyrone) - Posts: 1584 - 30/06/2010 18:32:53    692442

bad.monkey
County: USA
Posts: 2237

691924
Great article in the times - what if hitler had invaded?

link

It may upset the celtic barstoolers but if it wasnt for the british army we would have lost our freedom and become an enslaved people.



I fail to see the rel;ation between the British army, Hitler and loss of freedom.

In world war 2 the British army were swept into the sea at Dunkirk. As Hitler was very friendly with most of the ruling class in England, and indeed the royal family, he stopped there and didn't wipe Britain out as he had other enemies.

He then invaded Russia. After Stalingrad the war was over.

Russia were greatly aided by USA steel of course.

The British army re-entered the war in 1944 in the mopping up exercise.

So the Russian army and American resources saved us from allegedly losing our freedom.

To be honest, I do not see many signs of this freedom. GB, ROI and Poland for instance are the ONLY countries in Europe were you do not have the right to withdraw your labour. I could give many other examples.

But the main point is, what role did the British army play in this?

patrique (Antrim) - Posts: 13709 - 30/06/2010 18:37:51    692450

theres np doubting the nazis were a bunch of murdering racists/xenophobes or whatever you want to call them but they were simply a brainwashed desperate army led by a powerful and staggeringly influential leader. the country was at the time of hitler still low on confidence and struggling to come to terms with having lost most of its once huge empire (as a result of WW1 and versailles) and he simply stepped in and took advantage. so to blame the germans as a nation for his crimes is a little naive.

secondly as pointed out here already the nazis werent the first to demonise jews throughout the ages..the spanish gave it a bash centuries before and succeeded in wiping out almost all jews and indeed non-catholics in spain, while the french have been guilty of mass genocide on a similar scale too. indeed the catholic church has for centuries led a private purge against every enemy it sees...

ballyoisin_bomb (Monaghan) - Posts: 183 - 30/06/2010 19:04:35    692494

patrique.
good point . take the battle of the bulge for a example , american involvment in this was 500, 000 troops , compared to 30,000 brits .
so history points out the americans held back the german offensive in the ardennes .
as for attacking russia , the old mother nature bogged their machinery down , losing their tanks at a massive rate , and when german troops reteated the had no option but to leave their machinery behind them .

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 30/06/2010 19:25:46    692520