National - Is Ulster in danger of falling behind in 2018 ?

I re-watched back tyrones march to yet another Ulster title yesterday , and i must admit i cant get my head around how poor the opposition
was and a real lack belief amongst the challengers, resulting in Tyrone being completely un-prepared for the dubs, whom duely obliged
by handing them quite a brutal beating .
Are tyrone mentally ready to change their game-plan in 2018 ? , and can Micky round up the troops in such a short space of time to have a crack against the elite in 2018 ?
I hope they do as i cant see any other challengers coming from that province any time soon.

Vishred (Mayo) - Posts:138 - 04/10/2017 13:58:16   2053006

Link

Replying To Vishred:  "I re-watched back tyrones march to yet another Ulster title yesterday , and i must admit i cant get my head around how poor the opposition
was and a real lack belief amongst the challengers, resulting in Tyrone being completely un-prepared for the dubs, whom duely obliged
by handing them quite a brutal beating .
Are tyrone mentally ready to change their game-plan in 2018 ? , and can Micky round up the troops in such a short space of time to have a crack against the elite in 2018 ?
I hope they do as i cant see any other challengers coming from that province any time soon."
Yes. I think it's more a mental change of attitude that's needed. The footballers are there i believe. Just the Donegal template of 2012-2014, refined again by Tyrone this year is obsolete.

I don't think Tyrone are nearly as poor as they played against Dublin this year. They just need to throw off the shackles.

I also wouldn't even call it a provincial weakness. Leinster, Munster, Connacht are all the same bar Dublin, Mayo, Kerry next and then probably Tyrone.

Laois76 (Laois) - Posts:1270 - 04/10/2017 14:11:21   2053009

Link

Replying To Vishred:  "I re-watched back tyrones march to yet another Ulster title yesterday , and i must admit i cant get my head around how poor the opposition
was and a real lack belief amongst the challengers, resulting in Tyrone being completely un-prepared for the dubs, whom duely obliged
by handing them quite a brutal beating .
Are tyrone mentally ready to change their game-plan in 2018 ? , and can Micky round up the troops in such a short space of time to have a crack against the elite in 2018 ?
I hope they do as i cant see any other challengers coming from that province any time soon."
Your own county beat Dublin in 2012 only for an ulster county to come from nowhere (2 years previously) and win the all ireland.

Ye will beat Dublin in the championship again in the next few years. Do you really want to see another challenger from ulster?

Be careful what you wish for!


In terms of Tyrone themselves, their tactics v Dublin were absolutely baffling and they could easily regroup and be very very close to the level they need to be next year at a push and certainly in 2-3 years.

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts:2831 - 04/10/2017 14:21:53   2053016

Link

Replying To cavanman47:  "Your own county beat Dublin in 2012 only for an ulster county to come from nowhere (2 years previously) and win the all ireland.

Ye will beat Dublin in the championship again in the next few years. Do you really want to see another challenger from ulster?

Be careful what you wish for!


In terms of Tyrone themselves, their tactics v Dublin were absolutely baffling and they could easily regroup and be very very close to the level they need to be next year at a push and certainly in 2-3 years."
Absolutely.
The more competitors the Dubs face the quicker they will be grinded down.

Vishred (Mayo) - Posts:138 - 04/10/2017 14:27:06   2053020

Link

Cant see if being more depressing than the non-Dublin 10 in Leinster.

RoyalBadger (Meath) - Posts:461 - 04/10/2017 14:48:17   2053026

Link

I don't see why people think Tyrone are so far ahead of the chasing pack. Donegal are not far off them. They should have beat them last year in the final- it's only this year that they got a fairly clear run to Anglo Celt cup. Time will tell if they can sustain it. Monaghan are not far off them either. In fact if you were to pick the best forwards in Ulster Tyrone are probably a bit shy in the rankings.

Hardtimes (Cavan) - Posts:661 - 04/10/2017 15:06:53   2053032

Link

Other than the excellent story that was Slaughtneil it's been a really disappointing year for GAA in Ulster from minor up. Tyrone well beaten at senior, Donegal very disappointing at U21 and Derry suffered a heavy defeat at minor, though they did beat Dublin and Cavan beat Galway. In hurling it was really poor also, Derry winning the Rackard the only bright spot. No club titles in either football or hurling either. Compare it to any other province and it was a really poor year. Is the GAA struggling in Ulster just now or was this year a one-off?

Soma (UK) - Posts:2036 - 04/10/2017 15:22:06   2053037

Link

Funny enough Tyrones 'brutal beatings' to win Ulster was much less of a cake walk that 2 of the other Provinces and similar to the third. Tyrones average winning margin in Ulster was just over 9 points whereas Kerrys average winning margin in Munster was 8.5 points whereas the two best teams in the other Provinces, Dublin and Roscommon, won their games by 14 and 13 points on average in their Provinces.

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts:3482 - 04/10/2017 15:24:16   2053040

Link

Replying To Soma:  "Other than the excellent story that was Slaughtneil it's been a really disappointing year for GAA in Ulster from minor up. Tyrone well beaten at senior, Donegal very disappointing at U21 and Derry suffered a heavy defeat at minor, though they did beat Dublin and Cavan beat Galway. In hurling it was really poor also, Derry winning the Rackard the only bright spot. No club titles in either football or hurling either. Compare it to any other province and it was a really poor year. Is the GAA struggling in Ulster just now or was this year a one-off?"
There's been a decline in the performance by Ulster underage teams for quite a while.

I mentioned this in similar threads to this before this season kicked off.

The game has moved on over the last 4 years and I'd worry that Ulster teams have fully behind. It's not dissimilar to what happened to Leinster teams 10 years earlier.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts:1778 - 04/10/2017 15:47:34   2053047

Link

Ulster was pure rubbish this year and only marginally worse than last year. every single team in Ulster (and a fair few in Ireland aswell btw) were overly obsessed with defensive formations which led to a distinct lack of intensity and energy in the game as players were hiding in a sea of ''defensive' bodies. I think it'll change next year and i wouldn't be surprised to see Tyrone expand their game and push hard for an all ireland. I say Tyrone as i think their the only team in the Province even slightly equipped for that.

theweanling (Cavan) - Posts:161 - 04/10/2017 16:28:30   2053067

Link

I am surprised by these responses about how bad Ulster was this year. I actually don't agree. In terms of entertainment I think the Ulster championship was much better than in previous years.

Down vrs Monaghan and Monaghan vrs Cavan were very good games that went right to the wire.

Tyrone's long range point taking and goal scoring was also a joy to behold. I think people are obsessing too much about Tyrone's defensive system due to their poor showing against Dublin, but in general this year they were very attack orientated and racked up some massive scores.

lambofgod (Mayo) - Posts:42 - 04/10/2017 16:42:06   2053072

Link

Replying To lambofgod:  "I am surprised by these responses about how bad Ulster was this year. I actually don't agree. In terms of entertainment I think the Ulster championship was much better than in previous years.

Down vrs Monaghan and Monaghan vrs Cavan were very good games that went right to the wire.

Tyrone's long range point taking and goal scoring was also a joy to behold. I think people are obsessing too much about Tyrone's defensive system due to their poor showing against Dublin, but in general this year they were very attack orientated and racked up some massive scores."
I thought the Ulster championship was fine entertainment wise. Armagh Kildare was exciting in round 4 also.

The quality in Ulster is down though.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts:1778 - 04/10/2017 17:34:10   2053087

Link

Yes, the good news is Ulster is on a long downward spiral and should probably be banned, for the good of the "national" game. No future. On a serious note, no team in Ulster has the blend of players and management and professionalism needed to challenge for an AI. Then again, apart from Mayo, Kerry and Dublin, I'm not sure who else has either. I don't see any of that changing next year.

essmac (Tyrone) - Posts:344 - 04/10/2017 19:00:00   2053109

Link

I'm hoping we can start playing some decent football again now with new management in place and a few very good players back on board to help the younger lads blend in over the next 2 or 3 years, hopefully we'll get back to an Ulster final again soon and then who knows, I think we have the talent, just need players to develop and hopefully we'll have some great days again soon,
I think football ebbs and flows like a lot of other things, looking forward to the draw now.

Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts:196 - 07/10/2017 09:12:13   2053696

Link

Club football is still relatively strong and competitive at the top level across Ulster BUT at senior inter county it's been on the wane for a few years. There just doesn't seem to be the same physical edge, fight and mental strength amongst Ulster counties that there used to be.
Furthermore I think the over reliance on systems, game plans and stopping the opposition has stifled the natural ability and talent of Ulster footballers. Consequently you will continue to see the likes of Jamie Clarke walking away to pursue other interests, quite rightly I may add. It's time to get back to playing the game that produced the Canavans, Tohills, McConvilles, McDonnells, McHughs, O'Neills etc.

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts:8838 - 07/10/2017 15:44:08   2053740

Link

Replying To Tirchonaill1:  "I'm hoping we can start playing some decent football again now with new management in place and a few very good players back on board to help the younger lads blend in over the next 2 or 3 years, hopefully we'll get back to an Ulster final again soon and then who knows, I think we have the talent, just need players to develop and hopefully we'll have some great days again soon,
I think football ebbs and flows like a lot of other things, looking forward to the draw now."
Keep ourselves and Tyrone apart and I think an Ulster final should be a minimum.

panamasam (Australia) - Posts:981 - 07/10/2017 18:09:25   2053762

Link

Replying To Ulsterman:  "Club football is still relatively strong and competitive at the top level across Ulster BUT at senior inter county it's been on the wane for a few years. There just doesn't seem to be the same physical edge, fight and mental strength amongst Ulster counties that there used to be.
Furthermore I think the over reliance on systems, game plans and stopping the opposition has stifled the natural ability and talent of Ulster footballers. Consequently you will continue to see the likes of Jamie Clarke walking away to pursue other interests, quite rightly I may add. It's time to get back to playing the game that produced the Canavans, Tohills, McConvilles, McDonnells, McHughs, O'Neills etc."
Ulsterman

Most of the players you mentioned played under structured and regimented defensive systems

Great players no doubt but still most were on teams built around highly defensive tactics

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts:17438 - 08/10/2017 07:47:28   2053816

Link

  • 1