What is the most vital component of a top team. Obviously a combo of top coach and top players has best chance of success but can a poor coach lead a group of good players to sucess or can a top coach lead a group of poor to average players to trophies? Or is their various other factors which might determine how a team fairs?

Brianmac78 (Dublin) - Posts: 1168 - 22/06/2017 18:54:37    2003701

both.although i suspect brian cody is the man you are thinking about?i think he had a bit of both,he was a great manager,but for every great player he had he had one just a little bit worse,chomping at the bit to get a chance.
it was easy to let charlie carter go when eddie brennan or somebody was the replacement.would he have won an all ireland with wexford or offaly or limerick say?no is the answer.
so,basically both.

perfect10 (Wexford) - Posts: 3929 - 22/06/2017 22:52:47    2003792

Coaches don't play the game but can bring the best out in players if respected by them. Bot detracting from Brian Cody but would he stick around as long if he was the coach of Carlow (no disrespect intended). What other county could do without Charlie, Cha and a few others who would not toe the line. Still great man.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2658 - 22/06/2017 23:33:22    2003805

Players . A bunch of very good / great players have a chance of success with an average coach but a great coach has no chance with average players.

ctowers (Dublin) - Posts: 99 - 23/06/2017 06:50:07    2003830

It depends lads. Davy Fitz has proved what an impact a manager can have. He is one of the only changes in the Wexford team this year, yet what an impact he has made.
But yet, he hasn't got the luxury that Cody had of telling players where to go.
Being honest, I reckon that Kilkenny team were so good that any of us would have managed them to 3-4 All-Irelands.

Pinkie (Wexford) - Posts: 4100 - 23/06/2017 08:38:25    2003842

A half decent manager could do well when put in charge of a team of good players. Would J. Gavin manage Carlow/Wicklow/Leitrim to win an All-Ireland? and the answer is obviously no. Maybe if Mayo had a really good experienced inter county manager they may now have sam. The manager /coach is over played /hyped in our modern games. With Davy he will have an impact, but his impact will wear off after 2 to 3 years and his team will find its level - he is a decent manager with a pretty good record. In the modern game there is a problem with players as many will only respect the guy who they do not know which is a bit of a contradiction. A good manager will get the best out of his team without being a dictator. In Dublin you have a large population to pick from, very good people on the ground coaching at club level and good people coaching at county underage level resulting in a strong flow of good players into senior where again there is good management.

browncows (Meath) - Posts: 2342 - 23/06/2017 10:38:48    2003893

You need Both to win the big one.

Take Donegal for example:

McGuinness was class manager and got the best out of good players. It wasnt like he made bad players class. They already were good but he got that extra bit out of them. Colm McFadden Was always class. In 04 he beat Tyrone pretty much on his own. They were all Ireland champs at the time. The difference in 2011-2014 is McFadden was consistently good in every game. He also had players that would die for the cause.

Take out recent minor and u21 teams. Arguably the best team in Ireland (biased) but when it came down to it be were beaten on the line. The great players got so far nearly despite the managers in charge but they couldn't land the big one as they came across teams nearly as good as them with better coaching/systems

dstuction (Donegal) - Posts: 1209 - 23/06/2017 13:43:03    2003999

Eamon O Shea was the mastermind behind Tipperary stopping Kilkenny in 2010. He was the tactician who created the space game for the forward line. The week before the final he said Tipp needed at least 3 goals to win. Unlucky in 2014 not to win as a manager but his a fantastic coach.

WildPundit (Tipperary) - Posts: 1709 - 24/06/2017 01:07:19    2004230