Well we've had a strange championship so far haven't we kids. Fermanagh beating Monaghan and Derry and pushing Armagh to a draw, Armagh beaten by Wexford who got a hiding from Dublin who in turn got a hiding from Tyrone. Stranger more so that some teams just don't seem to be learning from their own mistakes. Running into the last day of the championship season, Tyrone certainly seem the more assured team in that they seem far more at ease and playing as a team should. Kerry will still be overriding favorites for the final but I still think there are questions there to be asked.

Their cynical attitude is always a topic that people get going about. The shouting and roaring at the referee yesterday did nothing to help that reputation. The fact that they went asleep for 20 minutes again and let a 9 point lead slip is definitely a worry for Pat O'Shea and co. I can imagine how happy the Tyrone boys were looking at the scores that Kerry gave away yesterday due to the pressure that was put on the Kerry defenders by the Cork attack i.e. that free that Diarmaid Murphy gave away.

The major question at the moment is how their defence will deal with the Tyrone swarming attack and even looking beyond the 3rd Sunday in September, how will they cope when Dara hangs up his boots. The Kerry midfield only played in fits and starts yesterday. Scanlon started extremely well as did Quirke but when things are going for Cork both seemed to fade badly. Quirke was replaced and Donnaghy came out to midfield where he did just about enough. There will be other days when they may not be so fortunate with the break of the ball.

On the flip side of this, there are still a lot of questions to be answered by Tyrone. Everyone seems to have been swept up with this notion that Tyrone are back to their 05 best. 2 good games doesn't do that in my book. Nor does the fact that Dublin simply laid down and died for Tyrone and I would still be of the opinion that Wexford were punching well above their weight by getting to an All Ireland semi final just like Meath last year. Not taking anything away from Tyrone's victories but they haven't played anyone like Kerry just yet. Through all Kerry's faults yesterday they still won and thats all that matters. The fact that Cork had clawed back level with 5 minutes to go would make most teams fall apart, not Kerry though.

But again we go back to whether either team will learn from their mistakes. If Kerry don't take the ball into contact like they did in 05 and use their twin towers I would expect them to win simply by outscoring Tyrone. Although Mickey Harte is one of the shrewdest operators in gaelic football, I can't see how they're going to deal with high ball into Donnaghy and Walsh not to mention having the likes of Cooper, O'Sullivan and Sheehan picking the ball off from them. Kerry's half forwards track back just as well as Tyrones and the Kerry half back line offer the same threat as that of Tyrones. Both full back lines look shakey.

It will be tense and tight and I'm expecting a few slaps in this one but Kerry to shade it....just

holymoly (Dublin) - Posts: 757 - 01/09/2008 11:05:35    89454

Holymoly, when you mention teams not learning from their mistakes you wouldn't be talking about a certain team in blue and navy by any chance?!!

I agree with you though that Tyrone are not at their 2005 level, they are compensating for the lack of marquee players like Canavan and O'Neill with savage workrate and there's an almost total abandonment of positions, with defenders kicking points for fun and forwards picking up the ball 20 yards from their own goal. Their style is not easy to play against and that's why I think they'll give Kerry a right rattle, but whether they have quite enough class to beat them this time I'm not so sure.

aidangalway (Galway) - Posts: 648 - 01/09/2008 15:01:09    89779

Holymoly

Quality post and assessment. The lack of interaction on this thread is a bit shocking when I look at the contributions elsewhere. Well (and succinctly) put - you know your stuff, fair play.

JayoCluxton (Dublin) - Posts: 2688 - 02/09/2008 01:42:25    90321

Dublin are just one of the many teams that don't seem to learn from their mistakes, I would include, Cork, Mayo, Donegal, Derry and Galway in that bunch as well.

In Dublins case you could mention a number of things - never found a full back nor even tried, 12 of the 15 that started against Tyrone also started against them in 05 - if they couldn't beat them with the majority of the team then, why would that change now?

holymoly (Dublin) - Posts: 757 - 02/09/2008 10:10:24    90424

JC - don't you worry, thanks to popular demand, I hope to provide a quality monday supplement from here on in ;-)

holymoly (Dublin) - Posts: 757 - 02/09/2008 10:59:20    90480

Awesome, awesome, awesome is all you can say about Kilkenny's performance yesterday. Regardless of the opposition, I don't think anyone could have stopped the Cats from achieving 3 in a row and a little bit of history in the full time scoreline. No doubt Waterford didn't give a proper account for themselves, never before have I seen Ken McGrath nor Tony Browne etc so quiet for the full 70 minutes of a hurling game in Croke Park.
The cold hard facts is that they were simply caught cold by Cody, the master crafts man, and his team of superstars. As I stated on another thread, you could argue that nearly every Kilkenny player deserves to be nominated in their position for an All-Star - they really are that good. The number of scores where their speed alone guaranteed them scores due to McGrath and co being caught chasing shadows was scary.
Since their defeat to Galway in 05, Kilkenny don't do mercy. Their ability to not only put the final nail in the coffin, but to dump the coffin in a grave 6 feet deep, bury it then build a skyscraper on it is there for all to see.
As for Waterford, I know a lot of people will be showing sympathy. Not me I'm afraid and for the record I don't think Waterford supporters would want it anyway. They'll be hurting and angry today and will want to know why they got such a beating.
They ended the championship in the same way that they started it - with an absolute hiding. Yes they kept on battling till the end as futile as it was and I know that a lot of people would regard them as their favorite underdogs but the way in which they treated Justin McCarthy always left a bad taste in my mouth. Davy Fitz has come in and has taken a lot of the plaudits for Waterfords achievement for making it to the All-Ireland final for the first time in 45 years but when it came down to it, he simply didn't have the tactical brain nor the know how as to how to beat Kilkenny. Had the Waterford players not have deflected the blame over their loss to Clare earlier in the championship and applied themselves better and simply remained loyal to McCarthy they would have probably made it to the All-Ireland final anyway. Justin was the man that got them to having their most successful period in a long time only to be rewarded with a knife in his back. Dan Shanahan went down in my estimation with his public act of not shaking McCarthy's hand. Compare his performances last year to this and tell me that he doesn't deserve criticsm, constructive or otherwise.
The Tipperary victory aside, they hadn't looked convincing at all throughout the championship. The main tactic that Davy tried to bring in was playing Ken McGrath at no.3 which didn't work at all. Other than that was there anything he did differently with the team that Justin hadn't already done? I don't have time for the media love in with Davy Fitz I'm afraid. To hear some commentators go on about him is enough to make me puke. Nothing against the guy himself but if I hear Marty Morrissey and the rest go on about how he's "such a character" I'll go mad. It was nearly beneficial to Waterford to get beaten in the first round, a much easier way to get to the semi as well as giving them time to readjust and for Davy to find his feet.
Kilkenny will be winning more All-Irelands for the forseeable future. Perhaps Tipp will be back with a vengence next year as I expected more from them this year, likewise Galway and perhaps Cork have one more All-Ireland in them, but the future looks very black and amber to me.

holymoly (Dublin) - Posts: 757 - 08/09/2008 14:01:55    95193

I agree wholeheartedly holymoly.
Justin was stabbed in the back by a few of the senior players ( i'll not name them for fear of retribution!!) and ommision. They got their just rewards. Davy Fitzgerald is a novice manager and it might have been worthwhile consulting with Justin who brought this team to the All Ireland final and got little or no credit for it

Downgael15 (Down) - Posts: 199 - 08/09/2008 14:25:54    95231

I though this was going to be about cod liver oil or something.
Good stuff HM!

RMDrive (Donegal) - Posts: 2202 - 08/09/2008 14:37:59    95241

Good stuff Holy. Agree with most but I think Cork need a bit of surgery and may be quiet for a couple of years especially if Tipp continue their improvement.

JayoCluxton (Dublin) - Posts: 2688 - 08/09/2008 14:49:50    95257

Put it this way RMDrive, if it wasn't for the valuum I'd be on the drugs!!!

holymoly (Dublin) - Posts: 757 - 08/09/2008 14:52:18    95263

Any chance you could start giving us just a summarised version of these meandering, drawn-out posts holymoly. Id imagine most people cant be bothered reading your posts when they see that they go on for about 3 days. Keep it concise good man, just give us the main points

whiterbannnas (Mayo) - Posts: 2441 - 08/09/2008 14:59:44    95275

No thanks WB, I don't want to bring my posts down to your level ;-)

holymoly (Dublin) - Posts: 757 - 08/09/2008 15:19:47    95302

Well at least you dont have to take the week off work to read one of my posts

whiterbannnas (Mayo) - Posts: 2441 - 08/09/2008 15:41:09    95326

I tell you what WB, how about I do a separate monday supplement in the style of the Daily Star or the Sun. You'll need to provide your own page 3 picture though

holymoly (Dublin) - Posts: 757 - 08/09/2008 15:57:02    95348

You'll need to provide your own page 3 picture though
holymoly , 08/09/2008 at 15:57
____________________________________
No offence Holy - but I don't think we want to see a picture of WB - especially on a Monday morning! :-)

JayoCluxton (Dublin) - Posts: 2688 - 08/09/2008 16:01:27    95350

whiterbannnas
County: Mayo
Posts: 717

Well at least you dont have to take the week off work to read one of my posts

Wish you'd take a couple of weeks off!

can sumaries most of your posts as follows.


bla bla bla.... mayo.... bla bla bla... hurling is rubbish.... bla bla bla...mayo

actually that might be a bit longer that most of your posts

Hag_and_Cheese (Tipperary) - Posts: 6103 - 08/09/2008 16:11:32    95360

holymoly
County: Dublin

I tell you what WB, how about I do a separate monday supplement in the style of the Daily Star or the Sun
_____________________________________________________________________________________________

Excellent idea holy. Just give me the main points, keep it short and concise. Its just that i dont have time to read your essays while im at work. Because of my career choice i have very little spare time during the day. Unfortunately i dont even have access to my own PC so i have to just sneak a quick look any time i get a chance and then get back to my scrubbing.

As for the page 3 pic, well i ll think about it...............

whiterbannnas (Mayo) - Posts: 2441 - 08/09/2008 17:10:14    95446

To think this day next week we'll know who are All-Ireland champions 2008. We'll know if Galvin started and whether he got another red card!! We'll know if Stephen O'Neill proved to be the vital ingredient to get Tyrone over the line or whether Mickey Harte's decision sent him down the swanny like Mike Ashley!!

Ah yes, the calm before the storm boys and girls. I personally am really looking forward to this one. The first AI final that should be a tight contest since the last time these 2 went head to head and there are some mouth watering contests to look forward to. I also have a sneaky feeling that we could be looking at a game that could have a lot of controversy and a bit of drama. Lets face it, if we're honest with ourselves, we all want to see a bit of dust up in the middle of the field - especially with both of these 2 teams. No offence to either camp but there are players on both sides that I would love to see get a bit of, oh whats that word, ah yes cummuppance (TM of Ball-Boy 2006)

I'm not gonna start listing out names or anything but some of the goading, feigning of injury's and dirty tackles that both teams have put in since the start of the year have left a bit of a sour taste. Especially in light of the fact that certain people in the media still try to paint Kerry as living gods of gaelic football while Tyrone are just a bunch of raggamuffins. Am I the only one that wants to see Brian Dooher and Aidan O'Mahony run into each other and both get sent off for amateur dramatics? Sticking through to form, I'd be expecting to see Dooher sporting a head plaster ala 96 while O'Mahony gets a job on Fair City.

Another drab and predictable final is the last thing us neutrals want. I want real passion, I want flair, I want skill, I want to see some tasty tackles, I want to see Kieran Donnaghy catching a high ball on the edge of the square, I want to see Sean Cavanagh running 50 yards beating 4 or 5 Kerry defenders, I want to see some glorious Gooch scores that only he can do, I want to see McMennamin chasing him down and getting stuck in, I want to see McGinley and O'Se make the midfield battle look like the start of Gladiator.

But most of all I just want a real good match

holymoly (Dublin) - Posts: 757 - 15/09/2008 10:14:30    99787

At least we can look forward to what should be a good final this time around. I fancy the minor final should be a good game too, Tyrone looked very good in the semi and Mayo hammered Kerry by 10 points, not often that happens. It's as well that Wexford didn't beat Tyrone, as much as it would have been nice for them to get to the final it's almost certain that Kerry would have hammered them. At least Tyrone have what it takes to give Kerry a serious test.

aidangalway (Galway) - Posts: 648 - 15/09/2008 11:20:24    99881

The Good, The Bad And The Cavanagh

Let me start of this weeks column by saying quite bluntly well done Tyrone, the team of the decade. I've never seen a grittier more determined team than Tyrone. They seemed to have an un-breakable mindset that will not allow them to lose games like this. In Mickey Harte you have the best manager of modern times, never have I seen a manager able to pin point teams weaknesses (even Kerry's which are few and far between) and exposed them so well. In Sean Cavanagh, Brian Dooher and Enda McGinley you have 3 players who could all easily win player of the year (my money would be on Cavanagh).

Kerry's northern ghost came back to haunt them badly. Kerry have had periods in games throughout the season where they have lost concentration and allowed the opposition to play. Unfortunately for Kerry this came crucially in the last 10 minutes. Pat O'Shea DIDN'T make the hard call when it was needed to yesterday. Neither Sheehan, Brosnan or Donnaghy made any real impact on the game yesterday and changes were not made fast enough. With no quality ball going into Donnaghy, Justin McMahons job was made all the easier. Other than Gooch and O'Sullivan, the rest of the forward line was very laboured and predictable - but against the best defence in the country thats bound to happen if you have no plan B

Where do Kerry go from here? It is unlikely that Dara will be around next year and that leaves a massive hole in midfield. Yes they still have quality and more than likely they will be in another final next year but their weaknesses have been shown this year. Lets not forget that the game could have easily swung in Kerrys way had they taken their goal chances and not conceded such a bad goal. But Tyrone proved yesterday that on any given day, with the right focus and the right tactics you can beat them.

In any case, well done Tyrone. Fully deserved.

holymoly (Dublin) - Posts: 757 - 22/09/2008 10:05:10    104197