Carlow won as expected yesterday, beating London. Laois' win over Antrim is more of a surprise.

All these counties and the Westmeath team beaten by Antrim two weeks ago will contest a provincial qualifying group next year:
Antrim
Carlow
Laois
Westmeath
London

The top 2 in the group will be advancing to the Leinster 2014 championship while the bottom team will be relegated and 4th placed team will take on CR winner in a relegation play-off, for arguments sake: Westmeath v Kerry.

In 2015 the provincial qualifying group will consist of 4 counties, again on a round robin basis, for arguments sake:
Antrim
Carlow
Laois
Westmeath

The top 2 again will advance to the Leinster championship. The bottom team will be relegated to the CR Cup. The 3rd placed team will take on the CR 2015 winner in a promotion/relegation play-off e.g. Laois v London.

In 2016 the cut to 13 teams altogether at McCarthy level will have been complete. 3 counties will contest the provincial qualifying group, again for arguments sake:
Antrim
Carlow
Laois

The top 2 will advance to the Leinster Championship 2016. The botton team will take on the CR winner in a promotion/relegation play-off e.g. Laois v Westmeath.

Is the cut to 13 teams a bit much? In a qualifying group of 3, one county won't be playing any given weekend. The two counties playing the final group game could fix a result which sees them go through and the other head for the relegation/promotion play-off. They should stop the cull at 14 teams. A qualifying group of 4 has more balance. All teams get 3 group games. The top 2 advance to the Leinster Championship. The 3rd placed county would remain at their level and the bottom team would contest the relegation/promotion play-off. It'll be interesting to see if the 4 counties left lobby for change after next years championship.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 9798 - 19/05/2013 11:37:16    1386448

Why not put all those teams in the CR with the winner or finalists going into the LM qualifiers. CR would be like a provincial championship and with those teams plus Kerry, Down, Meath etc it would be a good standard of competition.

dufferman (Down) - Posts: 159 - 19/05/2013 11:47:29    1386450

13 is too small. The GAA should be looking to expand the LMC if anything, not try and ring-fence it for the elite. Together with the changes to the promotion/relegation in the league, they are hampering progression for the likes of London or Kildare, who are looking to push on like ourselves or Westmeath have in recent years.

Remove Antrim from the Ulster Champ (if they want to be in Leinster then they have no right to still be in Ulster.)
Create a round-robin to be played off across the weekends of May.
Qualifying team(s) join the Leinster proper for June with some games under their belts.
Given that they will have played 3/4 games, teams from the round robin wouldn't need to be in the All Ireland qualifiers so this would increase the quality of the AI series.
Bottom round-robin team is relegated, CR winner replaces them.

St.John (Carlow) - Posts: 202 - 19/05/2013 14:27:49    1386535

Can we think about 2013 first ?

waynoI (Dublin) - Posts: 13659 - 19/05/2013 14:47:20    1386550

@waynoI It's a fairly big issue for us poor mugs that are affected by it.

St.John (Carlow) - Posts: 202 - 19/05/2013 15:29:08    1386565

waynoI
Can we think about 2013 first ?

St.John
@waynoI It's a fairly big issue for us poor mugs that are affected by it.

It is an issue for us non-protected counties.I don't think there's been an open discussion to the best way to sort out the championship and league once and for all.

I think the provincial qualification group is fair enough. Most of the counties involved accepted the top 10 need to be built around. The issue really as I would see it is there going a step too far cutting the group from 5 to 3. The next issue then is, what do teams need to do to be considered the 11th protect team?

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 9798 - 19/05/2013 15:58:27    1386584

Im with the "weaker counties" here. 13 is too small for the LMC and the GAA should be looking to push it forward. 16 would be an idea number, playing 4x4 groups. Elimination of teams from the LMC, who lets face it are at least 10 years of development and coaching behind the bigger hurling counties isnt the way forward. As the old saying goes learn from the best, exposure, exposure exposure is what they need, let there be a fall back system into lower competitions if it goes bad for them but by all means have them up there.

crossfieldball (Galway) - Posts: 650 - 19/05/2013 19:44:23    1386786

What I don't understand is, if they can have this initial round robin provincial qualifying group one year, why can't they have it every year? Promotion between Liam McCarthy and Christy Ring makes sense, I've no problem with that. But why decide to reduce the numbers in the Liam McCarthy before they've even seen how this provincial qualifying round plays out? I would imagine that whoever comes out of the group will have good momentum, have had great preparatory games in the group, and will be better equipped to face one of the bigger teams. Why take that away from teams before we even see how that goes?

Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - Posts: 1823 - 19/05/2013 20:03:59    1386812

Antrim and Galway have been put into Leinster so they improve and become more competitive. Does anybody actually believe this has actually worked? I don't believe it has. With the decline of the likes of Offaly and Wexford in the past decade or so you could not argue that Antrim have improved. On most days they would still not be able to beat either. Galway debateable. OK they won't Leinster but still no All-Ireland. How long have these teams been in Leinster now? Kind of hard to argue the original intention of putting them into Leinster has worked.

Nick (Wexford) - Posts: 1100 - 20/05/2013 12:58:16    1387195

Galway have helped the Leinster champ become interesting again. Antrim are better off in Leinster, but they are at the early round level. No idea why they are still in Ulster tho, that should be left for the likes of Down, Derry, Armagh to become Ulster champion.

This reducing teams is a bit stupid alrite. I think they way they have it this year is perfect, an early few games where Carlow, Antrim, Laois, Westmeath and London play with winners into Leinster semi.

I do agree they should bring in relegation, and promotion for Christy Ring winners.

The Real 1944 (Carlow) - Posts: 1114 - 20/05/2013 13:27:33    1387244

Marlon_JD

What I don't understand is, if they can have this initial round robin provincial qualifying group one year, why can't they have it every year? Promotion between Liam McCarthy and Christy Ring makes sense, I've no problem with that. But why decide to reduce the numbers in the Liam McCarthy before they've even seen how this provincial qualifying round plays out? I would imagine that whoever comes out of the group will have good momentum, have had great preparatory games in the group, and will be better equipped to face one of the bigger teams. Why take that away from teams before we even see how that goes?

The round robin system will be in place every year. It's just in 2014 it'll have 5 teams, 4 teams in 2015 and 3 in 2016. I think it'd make more sense to leave it at 4 teams. With 3, one team isn't playing each weekend. The two teams on the last day could fix a result which sees them through.

The Real 1944

Galway have helped the Leinster champ become interesting again. Antrim are better off in Leinster, but they are at the early round level. No idea why they are still in Ulster tho, that should be left for the likes of Down, Derry, Armagh to become Ulster champion.

This reducing teams is a bit stupid alrite. I think they way they have it this year is perfect, an early few games where Carlow, Antrim, Laois, Westmeath and London play with winners into Leinster semi.

I do agree they should bring in relegation, and promotion for Christy Ring winners.

They'll get early games in the provincial qualifier group as well though. 5 teams is a bit much, it'll take 5 weekends. It will only be 5 for one year though, reducing to 4 and then 3, where it'll be played over 3 weekends.

The promotion/relegation element is there as well so they've that part covered.

The only part that doesn't make sense as I say is reducing the group to 3 teams. Why not leave it at 4 after next year?

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 9798 - 20/05/2013 20:51:25    1387840