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Pairc Ui Chaoimh

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Replying To gunman: "With Thurles,Kilarney and Limerick all able to host Munster Finals what was the need for the project in the first place." Yes, it was falling apart PyatPree (Cork) - Posts: 376 - 14/12/2018 18:07:19 2154303 Link
Hate to say I told you so. But... I told you so jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 14/12/2018 18:34:19 2154308 Link
No surprise and nothing new, it's rare that any capital project in this country doesn't run significantly over budget. It will eventually be paid down and forgotten about. Croke Park ran wildly over budget as well iirc and received massive grants from the state, over € 100m. I do think PUC will be a valuable asset in the future and our second city should have a good stadium capable of holding big games and events. Optics are bad at the moment though without a doubt. Croke Park really should have had a strong oversight role from the start you'd really wonder why they didn't. I attended the Kerry cork game this year and was at a conference there recently. It's a fine facility that cork should be proud of and get great use from. I don't consider it a white elephant personally. GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2105 - 14/12/2018 19:50:58 2154313 Link
I'm for PUC being redeveloped and glad HQ are helping, this is all good. Now we need to show parity to Pearse Stadium and Casement Park to get the 21st century rolling. suckvalleypaddy (Galway) - Posts: 1669 - 14/12/2018 21:02:49 2154315 Link
Replying To suckvalleypaddy: "I'm for PUC being redeveloped and glad HQ are helping, this is all good. Now we need to show parity to Pearse Stadium and Casement Park to get the 21st century rolling." Absolutely. If the game is to thrive we need good facilities and get some of these big games spread around the country. We are all sick to the back teeth of travelling to Dublin for everything (no offence to the Dubs on here) Croker is miles too big for all but a handful of games each year anyway. The parking and access thing is not a big issue imo. If I'm going to Croker I expect I'll be doing a lot of walking that day and most other fans accept this too in my experience. Yet when people go to Galway, Cork or Thurles they seem to want to park directly outside the stadium and have a clear run home. GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2105 - 14/12/2018 22:51:54 2154325 Link
What is going on the GAA. How was this development allowed to overspend in a project like this- by up to 30 %. Croke Park has a lot to answer to also. Was there any brown envelopes involved? browncows (Meath) - Posts: 2342 - 15/12/2018 02:45:20 2154333 Link
Replying To Uimhir.a.3.: "For those of us who point out the failure in leadership by those full time salaried people in the Association, here is a classic example. Cork County Board have a number of full time officials, so too the Munster Council & then those in Croke Park. Those in Croke Park have overall responsibility for the whole Association & all its branches. This project was driven by Croke Park/Cork County Board & rode on the coat tails of the RWC application. As pointed out in a great article by Cormac Byrne in the Indo, there were huge question marks from the start, but they were dismissed. One Cork official was quoted as saying they would pay off the debt in two years !!! Let's not forget the initial costing was €70 Million, so it's to date a €40 Million overspend, in most projects if this happened, people would be fired & an investigation launched. This is not even the final figure, so it could go higher & a so called brand new pitch now has to be relaid, which will cost a massive six figure sum & may have to have Hawk Eye be installed for the big games so they can reach the €2 Million mark needed annually to service the debt. The problem within the GAA is the lack of transparency & let's not forget the Cork official at this years Congress who dismissed the CPA's motion on transparency, maybe now we can see why ! Hard questions need to be asked, who was project managing this, why weren't Croke Park overseeing budgets & project management of a multi million Euro project. Will details be made public on where they overspend was. Was tendering & management of same above board, what companies were given contracts & was it all above board, has there been conflict of interest at any stage. What Government or lending institutions would now give the GAA massive sums when they can't even manage their budget or get their costings correct. Sadly as we saw in Galway where there has been another mismanagement of Millions, nobody is named, nobody is accountable, its all sanitised & swept under the carpet, if you question anything you are pilliored, that is why they have been getting away with things, because people don't have the guts to speak up & tell the truth. PUC will now have qualifiers, Munster finals, everything at a cost to everybody else to pay for it. As we saw this year, fans will vote with their feet & not go. I was wondering why the Cork County finals were such a price this year, now we know why. The talk from all now will be of lessons learned, systems put in place, moving forward, all the usual claptrap, when everyone can now see that the Association from top to bottom is rudderless, leaderless, lacking transparency & is rotten to the core." Wow, where on earth have you been for the history of this state if you think that anyone gets fired when there's a cock up or overspend on a project. Every single infrastructure or major build project in this country it is a guaranteed given of massive overspend. Who's been fired? Who gets held accountable? Where is the transparency? It's a fine stadium in a terrible location but don't be talking boll@x about anyone being dismissed or held to answer in this country as that has never happened whenever it's remotely avoidable. Look at how in recent investigations ,individuals are allowed to resign their position on fat pensions and will be represented by the state when tried for ruining a mans life. His second in command allowed to step down and take on another high profile position. Incompetence isn't punished , certainly within state run bodies. If anything it's rewarded. Dubh_linn (Dublin) - Posts: 2312 - 15/12/2018 09:23:03 2154337 Link
Replying To jimbodub: "Hate to say I told you so. But... I told you so" You should have put money on it jim :-0 Tell us oh great oracle who will win next years allireland senior football and hurling championships? Can you tell us is Gaelic football really dead as Iv been proclaiming over the last 3 years? Who'll win the next general election? Will the Irish soccer team qualify for the Euro championships? Will the Brits change their minds and stay in Europe? KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 15/12/2018 11:27:55 2154344 Link
This was a much needed redevelopment that had fantastic potential, potential which I have no doubt those now in charge will realise and achieve, the overspend needs explaining but severe issues were discovered when demolition began and an awful lot more work had to be done than what was planned, I imagine that's part of the explanation at least. Cork stand to earn €15-20 from a sale of land, that will sort a lot out and if the business side of the stadium and extra events are added I see no real issue here, PUC should be open to all sports as Croke Park is, whoever wants to play in it should be let. Regarding location and parking look there isn't a GAA ground in the country that doesn't have parking issues, plan ahead and plan sensibly and allow yourself time and this shouldn't be an issue. At least Cork had the balls to go and develop a ground that will serve them well into the future and that will, I have no doubt, earn them a profit in the future, we need good fit for purpose stadia built for modern times, others could well take note. Richieq (Meath) - Posts: 3734 - 15/12/2018 13:22:00 2154349 Link
Replying To Richieq: "This was a much needed redevelopment that had fantastic potential, potential which I have no doubt those now in charge will realise and achieve, the overspend needs explaining but severe issues were discovered when demolition began and an awful lot more work had to be done than what was planned, I imagine that's part of the explanation at least. Cork stand to earn €15-20 from a sale of land, that will sort a lot out and if the business side of the stadium and extra events are added I see no real issue here, PUC should be open to all sports as Croke Park is, whoever wants to play in it should be let. Regarding location and parking look there isn't a GAA ground in the country that doesn't have parking issues, plan ahead and plan sensibly and allow yourself time and this shouldn't be an issue. At least Cork had the balls to go and develop a ground that will serve them well into the future and that will, I have no doubt, earn them a profit in the future, we need good fit for purpose stadia built for modern times, others could well take note." Well said. Connacht have nothing to compare to it. Shameful. Trump2020 (Galway) - Posts: 2120 - 15/12/2018 17:28:20 2154363 Link
Shameful that the Galway GAA sold their flagship "Mountain South developement land" to Galway Utd/Comer Brothers. Who are now turning it into a centre of excellence- for Soccer players! galwayford (Galway) - Posts: 2519 - 15/12/2018 23:06:18 2154383 Link
Cork GAA commissioned a feasability study for the new stadium before submitting the plans to aid transparency ect. One of Irelands top accountancy companies was sourced to do this study and reported back to the Cork County board executive or member of the executive. The report..was less optimistic than anyone who was pushing the new stadium expected. 2 of the reason was that the revenue streams wouldnt be there to generate the income necessary and Geographically it wasn't readily accessible to other Munster counties . This report was suppressed. The guy who did it was thanked and the company paid. That my friends is Ireland. bloodyban (Limerick) - Posts: 1710 - 16/12/2018 14:33:48 2154398 Link
This will all get aired in the new year when the Public Accounts Committee call in the parties responsible and they get well aired in public. If the attitude is replicated what I have read in public then I suggest GAA will end up footing this completely. GAA would have probably been better off creating a purpose built concert venue rather than a sports stadium for all the matches going to be played there. I am totally on for County boards being given capitol money to bring their grounds up to scratch but this is really taking the biscuit. arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4896 - 16/12/2018 15:37:57 2154400 Link
Always remember though that the Fianna Fáil led government gave the IRFU 90 million ie 90 million to develope the Aviva. The IRFU is probably the wealthiest sport in the country backed by Guinness, Bank of Ireland and others. galwayford (Galway) - Posts: 2519 - 16/12/2018 16:48:49 2154407 Link
Actually the Govt gave 191 million to the IRFU to redevelope the Aviva. http://www.theliberty.ie/2010/10/19/the-real-cost-of-the-aviva-stadium/ galwayford (Galway) - Posts: 2519 - 16/12/2018 16:59:27 2154410 Link
Always remember though that the Fianna Fáil led government gave the IRFU 90 million ie 90 million to develope the Aviva. The IRFU is probably the wealthiest sport in the country backed by Guinness, Bank of Ireland and others. galwayford (Galway) - Posts: 1301 - 16/12/2018 16:48:49It was 191 million as you admit in next post but the government and state between taxes and jobs provided will more than make that back over life time of the stadium. For every big game in the ground there is several thousand people working and then you have all ticket holders and what they buy. DonaldDuck (Tipperary) - Posts: 544 - 16/12/2018 18:11:01 2154416 Link
Replying To DonaldDuck: "Always remember though that the Fianna Fáil led government gave the IRFU 90 million ie 90 million to develope the Aviva. The IRFU is probably the wealthiest sport in the country backed by Guinness, Bank of Ireland and others. galwayford (Galway) - Posts: 1301 - 16/12/2018 16:48:49It was 191 million as you admit in next post but the government and state between taxes and jobs provided will more than make that back over life time of the stadium. For every big game in the ground there is several thousand people working and then you have all ticket holders and what they buy." Well should GAA ask for bail out for Pairc Ui Chaoimh? I mean every game employs staff and the concerts and Munster finals will bring income to Cork. galwayford (Galway) - Posts: 2519 - 16/12/2018 21:31:41 2154435 Link
sorry but if cork are bailed out,what is there to stop leitrim or carlow building a 60k seater stadium,not managing the finances properly,and then arriving with the cap in hand expecting the gaa to pony up? if you ask me,it is up to every county and club in the country to show financial planning,prudence,etc. there are a lot of very serious questions to be asked,why the overrun?was it under costed?who was responsible? i never worked in the building or qs industry,but i would imagine people who know a lot more than me about finance,construction,etc were asked to price the job.i understand that there can be conditions which present themselves (such as ground conditions not being as expected,but having said that,there was a stadium there before) which might not be expected,but if a builder tendered for the job,surely they knew they had to build it in that budget just like every other job in this country? there are a serious amount of questions to be answered here and i think it is incumbent on the gaa to demand those answers. perfect10 (Wexford) - Posts: 3929 - 17/12/2018 08:49:30 2154455 Link
E 25 m seems a bit off, any reasons given? maroondiesel (Mayo) - Posts: 1196 - 17/12/2018 10:33:23 2154464 Link
It's a disgrace 24 million overspend on a peripheral stadium. There has to be serious questions asked about this debacle jobber (Westmeath) - Posts: 1456 - 17/12/2018 10:44:50 2154465 Link