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A lot of referees don't know this rule

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"also While I'm at it If you are knocked to the ground whilst in possession of the ball , do you not earn a free."

Not necessarily as there's still physical contact in football and hurling where its permissible to hit with the shoulder within the laws to knock a player to the ground.
This isn't association football so don't go refereeing it accordingly.

bricktop (Down) - Posts: 2503 - 07/03/2017 11:15:06    1964959

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Don't ever remember seeing this happen but the rule is present and when on the ground in order to keep yourself safe you can fist the ball away and UNBELIEVABLY you can actually score a goal/point while fisting it away.

Some day down the line in an inter county game a goal will be scored like this but will the referee know to give it? There would be some eyebrows raised if he gave the goal but they would be soon unraised when the 'experts' revert to the rule book.

Monaghansclown (Monaghan) - Posts: 174 - 07/03/2017 12:25:27    1964992

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Replying To Monaghansclown:  "Don't ever remember seeing this happen but the rule is present and when on the ground in order to keep yourself safe you can fist the ball away and UNBELIEVABLY you can actually score a goal/point while fisting it away.

Some day down the line in an inter county game a goal will be scored like this but will the referee know to give it? There would be some eyebrows raised if he gave the goal but they would be soon unraised when the 'experts' revert to the rule book."
It happened on Saturday night in Croker.

MDMA was knocked to the ground after shooting on goal. Clarke made the save and MDMA punched the rebounded ball into the net whilst on the ground.

Described by all and sundry as a good call from the ref that turns out to be a completely incorrect call.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13710 - 07/03/2017 14:11:11    1965024

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If you take a 13 metre free in front of the goals and the ball strikes an opposition player who is not on the goal line. The referee should upgrade the free to a penalty. Now id love to see a referee obey the rules and give it

shaggylegend (Monaghan) - Posts: 1928 - 07/03/2017 14:13:19    1965025

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Replying To MesAmis:  "It happened on Saturday night in Croker.

MDMA was knocked to the ground after shooting on goal. Clarke made the save and MDMA punched the rebounded ball into the net whilst on the ground.

Described by all and sundry as a good call from the ref that turns out to be a completely incorrect call."
I didn't see it but if Clarke touched it before MDMC touched it on the ground then surely he wasn't the last person to have possession.

gotmilk (Fermanagh) - Posts: 4971 - 07/03/2017 14:22:37    1965030

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Replying To Monaghansclown:  "Don't ever remember seeing this happen but the rule is present and when on the ground in order to keep yourself safe you can fist the ball away and UNBELIEVABLY you can actually score a goal/point while fisting it away.

Some day down the line in an inter county game a goal will be scored like this but will the referee know to give it? There would be some eyebrows raised if he gave the goal but they would be soon unraised when the 'experts' revert to the rule book."
As advised previously, all inter-county refs will "know" to give it (as they're very experienced and extremely well versed on the rules) but they will REFUSE to apply this particular rule as it's absolutely daft. Ask any experienced ref within your own county and they'll tell you the exact same thing.

It's very hard for experienced refs like me to explain to the average joe the difficulty in applying some of the daft rules in our handbook, so I don't see the point in even trying. But I'll give you one other example to illustrate my point .

Once a player has got a yellow card, if he commits one more NOTING offence (e.g. holding the opponent), that in itself constitutes a second yellow card offence and therefore a second yellow (followed by the red) must be brandished. In other words, the ref does NOT wait for two noting offences to be made before giving the second yellow - he's supposed to send the player off upon just one more noting offence being permitted. This applies in both football and hurling.

Again in reality, no ref with any degree of common sense and pragmatism would ever apply such a daft rule and therefore we rightly ignore it. If we applied that rule to the letter of the law (as some lunatics on this forum seem to be demanding), you'd end up with 5 players from each side sent off and it being front page news in the local newspaper - trust me, no ref wants that! The average joe won't understand this obviously but that's GAA for ya!

banner_boy (Clare) - Posts: 1285 - 07/03/2017 14:23:30    1965032

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I didn't see it but if Clarke touched it before MDMC touched it on the ground then surely he wasn't the last person to have possession.
gotmilk (Fermanagh) - Posts:4080 - 07/03/2017 14:22:37

I see now!

So if the ball is then played by someone else it cannot then be played on the ground. Cheers!

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13710 - 07/03/2017 14:45:32    1965044

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Replying To MesAmis:  "I didn't see it but if Clarke touched it before MDMC touched it on the ground then surely he wasn't the last person to have possession.
gotmilk (Fermanagh) - Posts:4080 - 07/03/2017 14:22:37

I see now!

So if the ball is then played by someone else it cannot then be played on the ground. Cheers!"
I would imagine that is the logic to it. I'm not saying I'm right but from reading the rule it seems to suggest that if they hit the ball on the ground it's ok because no one else has touched it. Maybe Dell or your fella from Clare can confirm it for me.

gotmilk (Fermanagh) - Posts: 4971 - 07/03/2017 15:24:18    1965071

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Replying To gotmilk:  "
Replying To MesAmis:  "I didn't see it but if Clarke touched it before MDMC touched it on the ground then surely he wasn't the last person to have possession.
gotmilk (Fermanagh) - Posts:4080 - 07/03/2017 14:22:37

I see now!

So if the ball is then played by someone else it cannot then be played on the ground. Cheers!"
I would imagine that is the logic to it. I'm not saying I'm right but from reading the rule it seems to suggest that if they hit the ball on the ground it's ok because no one else has touched it. Maybe Dell or your fella from Clare can confirm it for me."
If you fall to the ground and you are still holding the ball and it hasn't touched the ground you can score a goal/point by fisting it into the net/over the bar. If you touch the ball on the ground then its a technical foul against you.

For example, the full forward catches the ball on the edge of the small rectangle and falls on the ground. He is now on the ground and is being tackled by the goalkeeper and defenders. In order for his own safety he fists the ball away while on the ground and the ball inadvertedly ends up going into the net. Most referees will give a free out because you cant score a goal with your fist but in this case where the player is on the ground, THE GOAL SHOULD STAND!!!

Monaghansclown (Monaghan) - Posts: 174 - 07/03/2017 15:37:29    1965082

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Replying To banner_boy:  "As advised previously, all inter-county refs will "know" to give it (as they're very experienced and extremely well versed on the rules) but they will REFUSE to apply this particular rule as it's absolutely daft. Ask any experienced ref within your own county and they'll tell you the exact same thing.

It's very hard for experienced refs like me to explain to the average joe the difficulty in applying some of the daft rules in our handbook, so I don't see the point in even trying. But I'll give you one other example to illustrate my point .

Once a player has got a yellow card, if he commits one more NOTING offence (e.g. holding the opponent), that in itself constitutes a second yellow card offence and therefore a second yellow (followed by the red) must be brandished. In other words, the ref does NOT wait for two noting offences to be made before giving the second yellow - he's supposed to send the player off upon just one more noting offence being permitted. This applies in both football and hurling.

Again in reality, no ref with any degree of common sense and pragmatism would ever apply such a daft rule and therefore we rightly ignore it. If we applied that rule to the letter of the law (as some lunatics on this forum seem to be demanding), you'd end up with 5 players from each side sent off and it being front page news in the local newspaper - trust me, no ref wants that! The average joe won't understand this obviously but that's GAA for ya!"
For those of us who are not too bright, would you explain what 'an average joe' is.
How many of those 'alternate facts or rules' are there?

neverright (Roscommon) - Posts: 1648 - 07/03/2017 15:51:40    1965093

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So does this mean that Joe Sheridan's goal was ok all along?

petejoeduff (Donegal) - Posts: 329 - 07/03/2017 15:54:36    1965096

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Love them or hate them we would nt have a game without them

RAHKILL (Westmeath) - Posts: 395 - 07/03/2017 16:23:25    1965119

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Replying To Monaghansclown:  "
Replying To gotmilk:  "[quote=MesAmis:  "I didn't see it but if Clarke touched it before MDMC touched it on the ground then surely he wasn't the last person to have possession.
gotmilk (Fermanagh) - Posts:4080 - 07/03/2017 14:22:37

I see now!

So if the ball is then played by someone else it cannot then be played on the ground. Cheers!"
I would imagine that is the logic to it. I'm not saying I'm right but from reading the rule it seems to suggest that if they hit the ball on the ground it's ok because no one else has touched it. Maybe Dell or your fella from Clare can confirm it for me."
If you fall to the ground and you are still holding the ball and it hasn't touched the ground you can score a goal/point by fisting it into the net/over the bar. If you touch the ball on the ground then its a technical foul against you.

For example, the full forward catches the ball on the edge of the small rectangle and falls on the ground. He is now on the ground and is being tackled by the goalkeeper and defenders. In order for his own safety he fists the ball away while on the ground and the ball inadvertedly ends up going into the net. Most referees will give a free out because you cant score a goal with your fist but in this case where the player is on the ground, THE GOAL SHOULD STAND!!!"]Don't think you're fully correct there.

m_the_d (None) - Posts: 1099 - 07/03/2017 16:40:03    1965129

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I would imagine that is the logic to it. I'm not saying I'm right but from reading the rule it seems to suggest that if they hit the ball on the ground it's ok because no one else has touched it. Maybe Dell or your fella from Clare can confirm it for me.
gotmilk (Fermanagh) - Posts:4082 - 07/03/2017

Didn't see the MDMA "goal" but if the keeper made a save and he played the rebound then it's a free against him as he played the ball on the ground - he might have been the last player to technically have possession but if the keeper (or even if it hit the post and bounced back to him) got a touch then the rule doesn't apply. If he had the ball, fell to the ground and then punched the ball in while it was still on the ground and before another player touched it then the goal should stand - never seen one given in that scenario though.

The rule only applies if both the player who had possession and the ball itself are on the ground.

If you're falling to the ground and are still holding the ball you're better off just dropping it as you'd be able to play it with your hands on the ground then.

So does this mean that Joe Sheridan's goal was ok all along?
petejoeduff (Donegal) - Posts:293 - 07/03/2017

The ball wasn't on the ground so no.

if_in_doubt (Kildare) - Posts: 3685 - 07/03/2017 17:29:00    1965152

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Replying To petejoeduff:  "So does this mean that Joe Sheridan's goal was ok all along?"
Nah - he rolled over the line with the ball then did some sort of fumble with it to get it out of his hands.

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 07/03/2017 17:42:45    1965158

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Replying To petejoeduff:  "So does this mean that Joe Sheridan's goal was ok all along?"
No because he carried the ball over the line.

Tacaí Liatroma (Leitrim) - Posts: 1032 - 07/03/2017 22:21:35    1965292

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Replying To Monaghansclown:  "
Replying To gotmilk:  "[quote=MesAmis:  "I didn't see it but if Clarke touched it before MDMC touched it on the ground then surely he wasn't the last person to have possession.
gotmilk (Fermanagh) - Posts:4080 - 07/03/2017 14:22:37

I see now!

So if the ball is then played by someone else it cannot then be played on the ground. Cheers!"
I would imagine that is the logic to it. I'm not saying I'm right but from reading the rule it seems to suggest that if they hit the ball on the ground it's ok because no one else has touched it. Maybe Dell or your fella from Clare can confirm it for me."
If you fall to the ground and you are still holding the ball and it hasn't touched the ground you can score a goal/point by fisting it into the net/over the bar. If you touch the ball on the ground then its a technical foul against you.

For example, the full forward catches the ball on the edge of the small rectangle and falls on the ground. He is now on the ground and is being tackled by the goalkeeper and defenders. In order for his own safety he fists the ball away while on the ground and the ball inadvertedly ends up going into the net. Most referees will give a free out because you cant score a goal with your fist but in this case where the player is on the ground, THE GOAL SHOULD STAND!!!"]Thank you!!! I've harped on about this elsewhere. The rule is clear: a player on the ground can score by fisting the ball away, and elsewhere in the rules, it says you can't fist a goal except in those circumstances described in the other part about fisting the ball when you're on the ground.

Tacaí Liatroma (Leitrim) - Posts: 1032 - 07/03/2017 22:26:26    1965293

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Monaghansclown: "Don't ever remember seeing this happen but the rule is present and when on the ground in order to keep yourself safe you can fist the ball away and UNBELIEVABLY you can actually score a goal/point while fisting it away.

Some day down the line in an inter county game a goal will be scored like this but will the referee know to give it? There would be some eyebrows raised if he gave the goal but they would be soon unraised when the 'experts' revert to the rule book."

banner_boy: "As advised previously, all inter-county refs will "know" to give it (as they're very experienced and extremely well versed on the rules) but they will REFUSE to apply this particular rule as it's absolutely daft."

Now, this is important: why is it a daft rule?

Tacaí Liatroma (Leitrim) - Posts: 1032 - 07/03/2017 22:28:54    1965294

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Replying To petejoeduff:  "So does this mean that Joe Sheridan's goal was ok all along?"
Absolutely anything goes, rule book out the window, so when your county loses to an incorrect application of the rules - so what! It was an experienced ref's opinion and that is all that really matters at the end of the day. Which is why a lot of physical games are borderline chaos how many players have you seen hauled to the ground and called for over carrying? How many people have witnessed players making support runs without the ball being tackled aka American football style!? How many of us have seen players pole-axed by a shoulder to a chest after the player has released the ball? But sure the ref was playing advantage (even though the players sternum is sticking out his back). Yeah in a nutshell have at it.

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4896 - 08/03/2017 10:16:52    1965339

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So basically experienced refs don't go by the rules ,they use ,"common sense" or in other words have a different set of rules and they even admit this, OMG

Teddy5 (Wexford) - Posts: 122 - 08/03/2017 10:46:34    1965353

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