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Replying To Whammo86: "It does nothing to reduce the Provincial inequality.
The makeup of the last 8 gets determined in the exact same way.
There are a couple of good things in the proposals.
Reducing the number of replays and playing the Provincial championships off more quickly are positive. The group stage part of the proposal could be hit or miss. They'll be seasons when it's a bit dull with little to play for in the last round of fixtures. There'll be years where it could be exciting.
It doesn't do much for weaker counties. These teams will not win anything but it still makes it a more interesting if more teams are competitive. I think this will probably widen the gap between the best and the rest. Not a good thing for the long term health of the game." As we have said before, GAA could address inequality - give the Prov Final 8 two chances over 2 more rounds, while giving all 24 others rwo matches via 8 groups of 3 in Qual Rd 1 (8 bottom teams eliminated). That seems to address fainess - at Prov Finals, all 32 are still alive and all need 2 matches at most (like a Last 32, but with slight Prov Finalist advabtage) before AI QFs. KO Rds 2 and 3 have team quantities of 20 and 12 - with 6 Rd 3 winners joining 2 unbeaten Prov Champs in the AI Last 8. For me, AI QFs are preferred as GAA matches produce far less draws v soccer, and therefore, the number of 4-team group outcomes is more limited - accordingly, I would expect higher dead rubber frequency in the Duffy Plan.
omahant (USA) - Posts: 2621 - 20/02/2017 21:29:36
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Replying To omahant: "As we have said before, GAA could address inequality - give the Prov Final 8 two chances over 2 more rounds, while giving all 24 others rwo matches via 8 groups of 3 in Qual Rd 1 (8 bottom teams eliminated). That seems to address fainess - at Prov Finals, all 32 are still alive and all need 2 matches at most (like a Last 32, but with slight Prov Finalist advabtage) before AI QFs. KO Rds 2 and 3 have team quantities of 20 and 12 - with 6 Rd 3 winners joining 2 unbeaten Prov Champs in the AI Last 8. For me, AI QFs are preferred as GAA matches produce far less draws v soccer, and therefore, the number of 4-team group outcomes is more limited - accordingly, I would expect higher dead rubber frequency in the Duffy Plan." Wexford reject Duffys plan and it looks like Carlow,Kilkenny,Laois and Westmeath could too.The Croke park juggernaut is meeting resistance.
jobber (Westmeath) - Posts: 1459 - 22/02/2017 08:13:49
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Replying To neverright: "I agree with you about 'dead rubbers'. However, I also doubt if many of the other games will be the big crowd pullers that people are assuming. It is a mini league system being imposed on the c'ship. Neither the League or the Qualifers have rarely drawn the big crowds that you get with' knock-out' games." The GAA and paying spectators will just have to get used to using leagues though, I think its the only way to sort out the fixture mess, its alot easier to run fixtures if you have round robin than knockouts as you've more certainty in the fixture lists, knockout also means some counties are playing 1-2 months longer than others which means a county don't know when they can run club fixtures - for instance the farce of the Mayo championship fixures, one game in May, one game in June and then the 3rd round whenever Mayo get knocked out of the championship!
I think the GAA haven't come up with a good enough design to make each game in a league count - there needs to be a system where each fixture means something, no dead rubbers - you need to make a way of each county having something to play for in each fixture, it requires a good robust system but it can be done.
73forever (Limerick) - Posts: 89 - 22/02/2017 10:27:08
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Replying To jobber: "Wexford reject Duffys plan and it looks like Carlow,Kilkenny,Laois and Westmeath could too.The Croke park juggernaut is meeting resistance." Delighted - hope my county Limerick and the other hurling counties reject it too, can only see the non dual strong football counties going for this - hoping the 'little fish' teach the 'establishment' a lesson here.
73forever (Limerick) - Posts: 89 - 22/02/2017 10:31:19
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I hope Mayo will reject them as well but as with club champ fixtures here the Co Board haven't a clue, all they are worried about is whether they will be able to go on holidays when Mayo aren't playing, they don't give a s##t about the clubs yet they have the cheek of demanding clubs sell these 100 euro tickets to club members and a certain number of tickets sold required by the co board, Mayo co board will follow the rest of the flock like sheep.
riverboys (Mayo) - Posts: 1389 - 22/02/2017 12:41:36
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Its reported today that my own County Board are in favor of it but the Cork GAA will oppose it.
Kerry also are in favor of the proposal to push back the All-Ireland Finals till August.
I'm disappointed with this, I think soccer and rugby dominate enough of the sporting year and its media coverage as it is.
Whey are we conceding an extra month for our premier competitions?
The Premiership comes back in August these days and the rugby season kicks of in the first weekend in September. Having the All-Irelands run till late September means the GAA is still able to hold its own in terms of coverage/public interest for a few weeks more.
TheHermit (Kerry) - Posts: 6354 - 22/02/2017 12:46:52
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Replying To 73forever: "The GAA and paying spectators will just have to get used to using leagues though, I think its the only way to sort out the fixture mess, its alot easier to run fixtures if you have round robin than knockouts as you've more certainty in the fixture lists, knockout also means some counties are playing 1-2 months longer than others which means a county don't know when they can run club fixtures - for instance the farce of the Mayo championship fixures, one game in May, one game in June and then the 3rd round whenever Mayo get knocked out of the championship!
I think the GAA haven't come up with a good enough design to make each game in a league count - there needs to be a system where each fixture means something, no dead rubbers - you need to make a way of each county having something to play for in each fixture, it requires a good robust system but it can be done." Completely agree with everything said there.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4241 - 22/02/2017 15:28:32
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this new format will cause fixture chaos for club players in the 8 counties who get to the last 8
you cannot introduce loads of more games to the All Ireland without restructuring the National Leagues, preseason competitions and the provincial competitions
manfromdelmonte (UK) - Posts: 541 - 22/02/2017 18:00:12
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Replying To moc.dna: "Padraic Duffy's Super 8 plans are another nail in the coffin of clubs. He knows his proposals on the Super 8 & extra time will go through. His proposal on bringing the All Irl finals forward will be hammered by the Dinosaurs at Congress & was only thrown in by Duffy on that basis as a sop to the clubs. So now there will be four weeks more lost as counties won't allow club games two weeks before Inter County C'ship games. This is done to secure more TV coverage rights with the advent of professionalism coming in, to maximise revenue. Croke Park want professionalism in Gaa before the RWC 2023 lands here & wants to exploit the TV money out there before that RWC happens here. All words from Duffy & O Fearghaíl re clubs & their importance is just empty rhetoric, lip service to appease clubs. Their disdain for the CPA is staggering. The divide between Croke Park, Inter county players, the GPA, Provincial & County Boards on one side & clubs on the other is only going to increase further after this. There is no doubt that it is now a two tier organisation heading for a split. Watching Dick Clerkin last night on RTE was an insult to all club members. Duffy has only one section of the Association at heart. Congress is a joke as its full of people wanting to further their political ambitions within the Gaa, they will do & vote as suits their agenda often in total contrast to what their counties instructed them to do. Delegates sole thoughts at Congress are their Inter County teams, not Joe & Josephine playing & volunteering at the local club. Democracy my h#le, it's the most politically corrupt system in any sporting body." by the end of this decade you will have a minimum semi-pro players contracted counties as with rugby and only released back to clubs at end of county teams participation in championship or after injury to get game time and letting players play for clubs after the league upto a cupl of weeks prior to champshp beginning. Have said previously that the bean counters in croke park are only interested in an elite game that can be marketed to tv and ppv tv and bringing the gpa in house was the beginning of professionalism and central council contracts { paid for by Rupert murdochs sky emporium } by controlling the budget they now have some control of the gpa activities and stops any form of protests that were used previous. Again money is going to be the ruination of a wonderful sporting culture and will be used to divide and conquer with those who can command the biggest sponsorships pulling away from the rest. Club players are now an after thought with the top county boards configuring their county activities and finances towards the senior county football/ hurling team. sorting the provincial championship time lines would be a better start especially in ulster where they could free up at least 4 weekends. No point in us trying to sort out as those with the biggest vested interest will control the outcome. { just look at the contempt of the president towards the cpa where he wouldn't even allow them to speak at congress as they don't want to hear the club players views as it does not fit the narrative or long term plan. This new plan will probably be passed as they probably have a fair idea at this stage which counties are going to support it to get it through.
bulmccabe (Tyrone) - Posts: 361 - 22/02/2017 18:33:10
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Replying To 73forever: "Why don't they just knock croke park altogether seeing as some people only want it used for the all ireland finals(only if Dublin don't get there) - like it or not croke park is the GAA national stadium - yes dublin happen to play in it but it has to be used or else its a white elephant." I don't think people realise what you are saying about Dublin, BTW they don't just play in Croke Park they help fill it and this helps pay for our glorious games. But sure Dublin Footballers playing away in St Conlaith's is far better especially for rural rejuvenation, or better still maybe PUC to help pay for the white elephant.
arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4898 - 22/02/2017 18:57:13
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less likely to be shocks later on or teams like tipp making the last 4. all about money..
ziggy32001 (Meath) - Posts: 8354 - 22/02/2017 19:23:09
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Really good article from Phillip Jordan.
http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2017/0222/854561-philip-jordan-gaa-change-needs-to-go-further/
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4241 - 22/02/2017 20:35:22
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An online poll which 1400 have answered has 73% against Duffy's plan
riverboys (Mayo) - Posts: 1389 - 22/02/2017 21:48:34
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CPA certainly getting plenty of media coverage this week, it's good all sides of the debate are being heard.
I'm in favour of the super 8, wholly on the basis of fairness and saving the championship that is now only a spectacle only from semi final level forward. I think we are in a poor place if the tail is wagging the dog.
I like club football and played and still attend games at all levels. As part of this arguement I don't like clubs playing the player welfare card, I know county players who have been put under tremendous pressure to turn out for the clubs injured, exhausted or carrying knocks after a season, the fear there for county players is that they will be labelled for want of better phrases "turning their back on their club" or &too big for their boots". Club and county are as bad as ach other, they give fleeting thought to player welfare and this debate is all about holding ground in my opinion.
The biggest concern here is player welfare, I'm not bothered by the club vs county posturing, I think the eventuality here is inevitable county players just won't play for their clubs in the future during their county careers. It will just be impossible, the same way we don't see dual stars anymore.
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 22/02/2017 22:20:09
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Replying To riverboys: "An online poll which 1400 have answered has 73% against Duffy's plan" That's good riverboys but it won't matter a jot come the weekend as I can see it being voted in unfortunately.
I just really would like if Duffy would come out and tell us straight up what are the plans the GAA have for our games over the next 20 years ?
Also this super 8 thing is only a money making racket , more games to sell to sky.
KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 22/02/2017 22:32:16
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I think a factor that hasn't been mentioned by the CPA and the anti Super 8 people is that huge numbers of talenetd young club players are going and will continue to the States to play for the Summer which means Championship games are either hindered or put off till they come back.
The 'Super 8' isn't in any way perfect but I think it's an awful lot better than what we have and the reality is if as expected the 'Super 8' fails to get through we will be left with the same mess of a system as the with the Congress system change is very slow and hard to attain
Regarding the elitist criticisms , 23 counties have reached the QF's since their inception so I feel it should be within reach for at least half the country and believe 3 high quality games would develop the likes of Kildare, Galway, Tipperary as opposed to 1 game in Croke Park does as well give Big Games to the rest of the Country in the height of the Summer
KYTotalFootball (Kerry) - Posts: 280 - 22/02/2017 22:40:52
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A majority of the CPA and GPA players are against these changes for once maybe people will listen to the players and for once put them first. The competitions at Inter-county are bizarre - just try explaining it to a non-GAA person and each time they make a minor change it becomes even more surreal. These changes are quite frankly going to make us a laughing stock and rightly so. League/Round-Robin format is the staple diet competition in most other sports and a knock-out competition is the icing on the cake. We need to focus on that basic fact and change it. We also need to play club leagues/championships regardless of missing Inter-county players. We all have examples of a championship match being postponed because one Inter-county player (probably number 35 on a 36 panel) is on "Inter-county duty".
arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4898 - 23/02/2017 08:10:49
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Listen I read Duffy's pitch as regards his 'super 8' idea. Inherent to his argument throughout was that, whatever about the imbalance in games played per county in the provincial system, the aim of the Super 8 was to ensure that come the All-Ireland series all 8 are setting off on the same foot.
Now from my reading of that, what he is arguing for is FAIRNESS. Grand, good, but then the proposal explicitly gives 1 county, Dublin, the advantage of 2 home games. Now I ask, where is the FAIRNESS in that???? In what other proposed competition around the world would such an advantage to one team be tolerated?!
If it proposed Kerry played 2 games in Killarney or Mayo 2 in McHale Park, the ink wouldn't be dry before the thing was thrown out.
I hope it doesn't pass because it is inherently unfair from that perspective.
And for those who say, ah sure look Dublin always got to play in Croke Park, that's not the point.
This is an new initiative and its being pitched to the Congress delegates as a way of leveling the playing field.
But in reality its just about keeping a cash cow going to the determent of the rest of us.
Same BS arguments that they used to shove the SKY deal through: 'oh this will give Irish people in the UK the opportunity to watch our games', yeah if there willing to pay £300 a year for SKY SPORTS!!
TheHermit (Kerry) - Posts: 6354 - 23/02/2017 09:44:08
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Replying To KYTotalFootball: "I think a factor that hasn't been mentioned by the CPA and the anti Super 8 people is that huge numbers of talenetd young club players are going and will continue to the States to play for the Summer which means Championship games are either hindered or put off till they come back.
The 'Super 8' isn't in any way perfect but I think it's an awful lot better than what we have and the reality is if as expected the 'Super 8' fails to get through we will be left with the same mess of a system as the with the Congress system change is very slow and hard to attain
Regarding the elitist criticisms , 23 counties have reached the QF's since their inception so I feel it should be within reach for at least half the country and believe 3 high quality games would develop the likes of Kildare, Galway, Tipperary as opposed to 1 game in Croke Park does as well give Big Games to the rest of the Country in the height of the Summer" There are only three reasons for young lads going to the USA, 1/ emigrating to get work, 2/ students going on J1 visas to experience the States & what is seen as a right of passage & 3/ club players who go to work illegally, have the craic or are good enough to get paid for going out, all leaving because of the "closed Gaa summer season" for the Inter county players. Lads are sick of no games for two months in the Summer.. You stated that one of the reasons that club C'ship is called off or differed is due to all these club lads going to the States, that is a misnomer, the only reason club C'ship is put off is because of the various counties participation in the All Ireland series & your support for the Super 8 is only going to exacerbate this.
moc.dna (Galway) - Posts: 1212 - 23/02/2017 10:06:37
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To me this proposal is all about money.
In my opinion, it's the lobsided nature of the Provincial Championships that is holding a lot of counties back. Ulster is too competitive compared to the other provinces and the weaker counties in all provinces will get 2 championship games every year where they'll usually get well beaten.
The current tinkering at the edges will make no material difference other than making the stronger counties stronger and weaker counties weaker - the GAA should be all about inclusiveness not just money as the hierarchy seem to believe.
If a proper revamp of the Championship were to happen the Provincial Championships would have to be separated from the AI series or counties would have to be moved to other provinces (like hurling) to even out the number of counties. But my preference is for 8 groups of 4 based on National League standings with every group having one team from each division.
The Div 4 team could then have 3 home games in the group stage, Div 3 team 2 home games, Div 2 team 1 home game with the Div 1 team playing all group games away. The National League would then become important again (for Championship seeding) and be a really good competition.
Top 2 teams would qualify for the last 16 while bottom 2 teams would drop into second tier competition. The 2nd tier competition would need to have a level of importance with QF through to final being played in Croker. Last 16 games at a neutral venue. This way all counties are guaranteed 4 championship matches every year with at least two being winnable. Group games could be run over last two weeks in May and all of June. The last 16 through to final of both competitions played through July and August freeing up the rest of the year for the clubs. Top teams in each group to play second-placed teams from another group.
This year you could have a group of Roscommon, Down, Tipperary and Westmeath. All four teams would believe they have a realistic chance of qualifying in the top two.
New U20 competition could be run on the same basis and same timelines with players only allowed to play one or the other making this a much more attractive competition and removing some of the burnout period in the early part of the year where players are playing McKenna Cup, McGrath Cup etc plus Colleges plus National League plus U21 Hastings Cup plus U21 championship on wet pitches.
opa01 (Cavan) - Posts: 503 - 23/02/2017 10:22:58
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