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Replying To TheHermit: "I understand that, but this is a new imitative it is only right the issue should be raised and addressed - especially at a time when there is so much talk about the advantages the Dublin footballers already enjoy.
This is meant to be some sort of elite round robin which will invariably be played among the very best teams, so why would you condone a system that gives one of them a distinct advantage." I don't condone it. I was just pointing out really that it's not likely to change. They already don't care that Dublin have the advantage of a home quarterfinal.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4241 - 20/02/2017 13:21:51
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The Hermit I would be on board with the neutral venue mate i think its fair and as a personal preference i love away days, so would hope counties would elect to play neutrally. But then what player doesn't want to play in Croke Park as opposed to say Nolan Park or Semple Stadium, while for fans it would take away from what we all know is a special day out of being in Croke Park on a summers day. I can see most counties even given the choice plumping for Croker.
I am of the firm opinion that the GAA want Dublin in Croke Park, and have done more then anyone to make it their home venue. i think its very telling that the GAA have come out in support of the Spawell site without a stadium, thats a huge change from the original plan. I wholly accept Dublin have an advantage with Croke Park, it feels like a home ground and i often wonder what its like for other fans visiting, it will always be in Dublin and because of that when Dublin play their, with the population it will be a home ground even if another ground was developed in the city. I guess it would be like having the national stadium in Kilarney - which wouldn't be a bad idea at all. :)
The premise for the super 8 is unfair if it gives Dublin two games in Croke Park (also another county), but when you think it about it actually adds one away game because realistically a under the current format all the games would be in Croker anyway,
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 20/02/2017 13:57:10
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Replying To TheHermit: "I understand that, but this is a new imitative it is only right the issue should be raised and addressed - especially at a time when there is so much talk about the advantages the Dublin footballers already enjoy.
This is meant to be some sort of elite round robin which will invariably be played among the very best teams, so why would you condone a system that gives one of them a distinct advantage." Ya you're right the hermit, now is the time to nip this dubs in crokepark thing in the bud before it's passed , otherwise it would be the same as trying to negotiate your wages after accepting a job offer.
And surely to god they could bring the dubs to semple stadium as a neutral venue it's not that far for them to travel.
KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 20/02/2017 14:13:22
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himachechy, i think the GAA are bringing in a two tier competition system through the back door, while also keeping the provincials.
Essentially the top teams will go into the super 8 post the provincials. While the weaker counties will go into the qualifiers as a knock out for a place in the super 8. Its essentially two competitions under the one banner, while keeping the provincials.
Whether that will help weaker counties remains to be seen, but it means they may have a realistic goal for the year and the aspiration may be a super 8 place as opposed to winning the all Ireland which may be realistic. I would say the variety on a yearly basis in the quater-final is by far the most fluid of the rounds post the provincial. I would hope their is some kind of review process built in as well.
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 20/02/2017 14:23:47
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Replying To moc.dna: "Padraic Duffy's Super 8 plans are another nail in the coffin of clubs. He knows his proposals on the Super 8 & extra time will go through. His proposal on bringing the All Irl finals forward will be hammered by the Dinosaurs at Congress & was only thrown in by Duffy on that basis as a sop to the clubs. So now there will be four weeks more lost as counties won't allow club games two weeks before Inter County C'ship games. This is done to secure more TV coverage rights with the advent of professionalism coming in, to maximise revenue. Croke Park want professionalism in Gaa before the RWC 2023 lands here & wants to exploit the TV money out there before that RWC happens here. All words from Duffy & O Fearghaíl re clubs & their importance is just empty rhetoric, lip service to appease clubs. Their disdain for the CPA is staggering. The divide between Croke Park, Inter county players, the GPA, Provincial & County Boards on one side & clubs on the other is only going to increase further after this. There is no doubt that it is now a two tier organisation heading for a split. Watching Dick Clerkin last night on RTE was an insult to all club members. Duffy has only one section of the Association at heart. Congress is a joke as its full of people wanting to further their political ambitions within the Gaa, they will do & vote as suits their agenda often in total contrast to what their counties instructed them to do. Delegates sole thoughts at Congress are their Inter County teams, not Joe & Josephine playing & volunteering at the local club. Democracy my h#le, it's the most politically corrupt system in any sporting body." Would agree 100% with you
arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4898 - 20/02/2017 14:40:01
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Replying To KingdomBoy1: "Ya you're right the hermit, now is the time to nip this dubs in crokepark thing in the bud before it's passed , otherwise it would be the same as trying to negotiate your wages after accepting a job offer.
And surely to god they could bring the dubs to semple stadium as a neutral venue it's not that far for them to travel." Why don't they just knock croke park altogether seeing as some people only want it used for the all ireland finals(only if Dublin don't get there) - like it or not croke park is the GAA national stadium - yes dublin happen to play in it but it has to be used or else its a white elephant.
73forever (Limerick) - Posts: 89 - 20/02/2017 14:53:14
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I suppose one of the things the GAA may have to consider is logistics and safety when it comes to taking Dublin out of Croke Park.
On average i would think that Dublin alone would conservatively attract 50k for a quarterfinal currently. There arent many counties who could cater for that safely. In fact i would even have concerns for the away game. when consider conservatively 15k traveled for the first game of the league to play Cavan on a cold February afternoon.
I would honestly have concerns even for the away games in a quarter final. You can cap tickets fine, but i would think many would travel anyway.
I say the above with my previous stated opinion that two games in Croker is unfair if it comes to pass and i enjoy away days far more then average Croker days.
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 20/02/2017 14:55:49
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Replying To KingdomBoy1: "Ya you're right the hermit, now is the time to nip this dubs in crokepark thing in the bud before it's passed , otherwise it would be the same as trying to negotiate your wages after accepting a job offer.
And surely to god they could bring the dubs to semple stadium as a neutral venue it's not that far for them to travel." It's a fair point. I doubt you'd have many arguing the inequality of that. There'd be logistical challenges but, with a bit of compromise and common sense applied, its eminently doable.
Two considerations I'd envisage (not just involving Dublin) would be:
i) Deciding which team would cede home advantage. For example, using the 8 quarter finalists from last year, could Cusack Park or MacCumhail Park realistically be able to cater for demand at that stage of the championship? Would they be allowed to dig their heels in if they were drawn at home to Dublin, Mayo, Tyrone etc.?
ii) Would the decision regarding the neutral venue be independent and based on geographical or demographical factors? For example, if Dublin drew Mayo, there's not really an appropriately sized stadium between the two so would the decision be made that the game would be played in McHale Park or Croke Park on that basis? If Mayo drew Kerry, the Gaelic Grounds is suits both the geographical and demographical requirements (or as close as reasonably could be expected). If Kerry drew Dublin, Semple Stadium also suits the above. If these three teams, for example, were drawn in the same group, would a common sense approach be applied or would it be "first name out of the hat" approach?
Kurt_Angle (Dublin) - Posts: 567 - 20/02/2017 15:32:47
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Replying To witnof: "Hold on. Louth, Westmeath and Leitrim have never been strong contenders no matter the format, and most likely never will. So lets stop blmaing the formats for their problems or lack of success.
No format will make a weaker county stronger.
Secondly the arguement that the proposed pool takes up extra Sundays and leaves club players twiddling their thumbs. I call BS on this. Every year 24 counties are finished in the championship by the time the Q-Finals start first weekend of August. YET they still cannot or will not run off their local county champtionships. They wait to September and October.
This is also, for me, why the CPA makes no sense. The problems are often within the counties, blaming the 'GAA' or 'Croke Park' is often an easy excuse." Witnof it might surprise but once a upon a time a long long time ago the Wee County were strong contenders for All Ireland's. The Wee County reached the first ever All Ireland in 1887 when Limerick beat them. Limerick are the only county to have never been beaten in All Ireland football final. Louth also reached the first ever All Ireland junior championship final only to be beaten by Tipp in 1912. Louth have won an All Ireland in 1910. This was the only time there was a walk over in the All Ireland final with the Kerry team refusing to travel because the train company at that time would not cut ticket prices for Kerry supporters travelling up to the game. In 1912 they beat Antrim to win their second All Ireland in three seasons. Between 1943 and 1957 the Wee County won five Leinster titles, they were beaten All Ireland finalists in 1950 and they finally won Sam for the only time in their history in 1957. Between 1947 and 1954 the Leinster title was won by either Louth or Meath. This was at the height of the Battle of the Boyne rivalry between these two neighbouring counties. It's a pity I was not around back then. There was some matches back then between the Royals and the Wee Men.
OLLIE (Louth) - Posts: 12224 - 20/02/2017 15:38:36
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I have a feeling that the motion will pass. RTE seem to be onboard allowing Dick Clerkin a soapbox on Sunday night without being opposed by anyone.
unclegerry (Mayo) - Posts: 1222 - 20/02/2017 16:16:16
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Replying To unclegerry: "I have a feeling that the motion will pass. RTE seem to be onboard allowing Dick Clerkin a soapbox on Sunday night without being opposed by anyone." I couldnt agree more. Clerkin went on with an agenda last night . A pro establishment agenda and no balance was offered at all. It was a joke
Malonemagic (Laois) - Posts: 767 - 20/02/2017 16:21:55
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When PUC is finished they should definitely consider playing one or two quarter finals there as a neutral venue
I'd argue the same for Casement Park if it ever gets built, same for Limerick
Games don't always have to be played in Dublin
manfromdelmonte (UK) - Posts: 541 - 20/02/2017 17:54:31
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Replying To moc.dna: "Padraic Duffy's Super 8 plans are another nail in the coffin of clubs. He knows his proposals on the Super 8 & extra time will go through. His proposal on bringing the All Irl finals forward will be hammered by the Dinosaurs at Congress & was only thrown in by Duffy on that basis as a sop to the clubs. So now there will be four weeks more lost as counties won't allow club games two weeks before Inter County C'ship games. This is done to secure more TV coverage rights with the advent of professionalism coming in, to maximise revenue. Croke Park want professionalism in Gaa before the RWC 2023 lands here & wants to exploit the TV money out there before that RWC happens here. All words from Duffy & O Fearghaíl re clubs & their importance is just empty rhetoric, lip service to appease clubs. Their disdain for the CPA is staggering. The divide between Croke Park, Inter county players, the GPA, Provincial & County Boards on one side & clubs on the other is only going to increase further after this. There is no doubt that it is now a two tier organisation heading for a split. Watching Dick Clerkin last night on RTE was an insult to all club members. Duffy has only one section of the Association at heart. Congress is a joke as its full of people wanting to further their political ambitions within the Gaa, they will do & vote as suits their agenda often in total contrast to what their counties instructed them to do. Delegates sole thoughts at Congress are their Inter County teams, not Joe & Josephine playing & volunteering at the local club. Democracy my h#le, it's the most politically corrupt system in any sporting body." Good post - totally agree on most points.
TheRightStuff (Donegal) - Posts: 1688 - 20/02/2017 17:55:59
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Replying To unclegerry: "I have a feeling that the motion will pass. RTE seem to be onboard allowing Dick Clerkin a soapbox on Sunday night without being opposed by anyone." Thought is was very distasteful myself.
TheRightStuff (Donegal) - Posts: 1688 - 20/02/2017 17:57:56
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Replying To TheHermit: " Replying To witnof: "Hold on. Louth, Westmeath and Leitrim have never been strong contenders no matter the format, and most likely never will. So lets stop blmaing the formats for their problems or lack of success.
No format will make a weaker county stronger.
Secondly the arguement that the proposed pool takes up extra Sundays and leaves club players twiddling their thumbs. I call BS on this. Every year 24 counties are finished in the championship by the time the Q-Finals start first weekend of August. YET they still cannot or will not run off their local county champtionships. They wait to September and October.
This is also, for me, why the CPA makes no sense. The problems are often within the counties, blaming the 'GAA' or 'Croke Park' is often an easy excuse." Isn't that the crux of the whole thing??? You have Duffy going around the country this past few months trying to sell this 'Super 8' format. If he took the same amount of time to visit the County Boards and insist they get their club structures in order, we wouldn't have to be in a situation where club players in the vast majority of counties are sitting on their hands all summer. Personally I think the new format idea, is just window dressing. Always good for players to get more games but as another poster said, for supporters coming from Donegal, Kerry etc its a hell of a lot more expense. Within 5 years we will be complaining about it as much as the qualifier system. Also can someone clarify, the idea is every county in the Q-finals gets a home game, an away game and a game in Croke Park. Now does that mean Dublin effectively get 2 home games and everyone else just one?"
If a county like Carlow or Laois get put out of the qualifiers in June say. They play their club championships, say 6 weeks to play. They would be finished in late July/August. Say they have to play St Vincent's of Dublin in the first round of Leinster club championship and Dublin get to an All Ireland. Dublin county final probably not played until November. So the winners of the Carlow/Loais club final would be waiting 3 or 4 months to play the first round of the Leinster championship. Also they would get hammered because they haven't played in months.
The_Fridge (Tyrone) - Posts: 2088 - 20/02/2017 18:32:27
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I would be afraid of the hopeless dead rubber matches in the final round of games, I mean, say Tyrone had already qualified and their last game was against Tipp who couldn't qualify who would watch it? Also Tyrone would put out a second team and rest every single first team player.
The_Fridge (Tyrone) - Posts: 2088 - 20/02/2017 18:47:22
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Replying To 73forever: "Why don't they just knock croke park altogether seeing as some people only want it used for the all ireland finals(only if Dublin don't get there) - like it or not croke park is the GAA national stadium - yes dublin happen to play in it but it has to be used or else its a white elephant." Yes but the new PUC, your own Gaelic Grounds, Semple Stadium etc etc, aren't they White Elephants as it is?
The Gaelic Grounds was last full to capacity when; the replay in Aug 2014?
The new PUC will be lucky to be full once a year.
Why should Croke Park be exempt?
At least move the crowds around the Elephants!!
TheHermit (Kerry) - Posts: 6354 - 20/02/2017 19:02:48
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Replying To The_Fridge: "I would be afraid of the hopeless dead rubber matches in the final round of games, I mean, say Tyrone had already qualified and their last game was against Tipp who couldn't qualify who would watch it? Also Tyrone would put out a second team and rest every single first team player." I agree with you about 'dead rubbers'. However, I also doubt if many of the other games will be the big crowd pullers that people are assuming. It is a mini league system being imposed on the c'ship. Neither the League or the Qualifers have rarely drawn the big crowds that you get with' knock-out' games.
neverright (Roscommon) - Posts: 1648 - 20/02/2017 19:27:41
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Lets just say both ideas are passed here is a problem the GAA will have to face, we will have to work backwards to get this point across, the All Ireland football final to be played on the 3rd Sunday in August, hurling on 1st Sunday which would be August bank holiday weekend, the 4 semis 2 hurling 2 football will have to be stand alone fixtures and on a Sunday so that's July taken care of, it isn't fair on working people having to miss work for a Saturday game, bad enough if it is a final, players welfare will need a free week so round 3 of the round robin system so that's the last Sunday in June, a free week then round 2 that's 2nd weekend in June, a free week then round 1, a free week then provincial finals that's the 2nd Sunday in May, a free weekend then semis, free weekend then provincial quarterfinals that's the 2nd Sunday in April and if a preliminary round is needed like in Ulster and Leinster another round and weekend is needed, then with 7 round of the League and maybe a Final it looks like the National League will begin on the 2nd Sunday in January.
Where will we get the time for club matches, all that is wrong with the current system is matches are too spread for example the provincial quarter can be played the same day in 4 different venues, same for the semis and forget about the TV coverage
Well done to Duffy's plan, well thought out, tell us again how this will help weaker counties, tell us again how supporters are suppose to pay for 2 extra games that we don't need, tell us again how the GAA expect thousands of fans to travel to the ends of the country on bad roads, no trains and overpriced fuel and miss work, tell us again how this isn't a media stunt deal done by the GAA, tell us again how these ideas help club matches, the calendar will be a mess
riverboys (Mayo) - Posts: 1389 - 20/02/2017 19:39:20
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Replying To riverboys: "Lets just say both ideas are passed here is a problem the GAA will have to face, we will have to work backwards to get this point across, the All Ireland football final to be played on the 3rd Sunday in August, hurling on 1st Sunday which would be August bank holiday weekend, the 4 semis 2 hurling 2 football will have to be stand alone fixtures and on a Sunday so that's July taken care of, it isn't fair on working people having to miss work for a Saturday game, bad enough if it is a final, players welfare will need a free week so round 3 of the round robin system so that's the last Sunday in June, a free week then round 2 that's 2nd weekend in June, a free week then round 1, a free week then provincial finals that's the 2nd Sunday in May, a free weekend then semis, free weekend then provincial quarterfinals that's the 2nd Sunday in April and if a preliminary round is needed like in Ulster and Leinster another round and weekend is needed, then with 7 round of the League and maybe a Final it looks like the National League will begin on the 2nd Sunday in January.
Where will we get the time for club matches, all that is wrong with the current system is matches are too spread for example the provincial quarter can be played the same day in 4 different venues, same for the semis and forget about the TV coverage
Well done to Duffy's plan, well thought out, tell us again how this will help weaker counties, tell us again how supporters are suppose to pay for 2 extra games that we don't need, tell us again how the GAA expect thousands of fans to travel to the ends of the country on bad roads, no trains and overpriced fuel and miss work, tell us again how this isn't a media stunt deal done by the GAA, tell us again how these ideas help club matches, the calendar will be a mess" Like it or not the inter county scene generates the most profits and excitement around the country not the club game unfortunately, if the gaa want to compete with rugby and soccer then more inter county matches between the top sides is a most
Kingoreilly (Kildare) - Posts: 77 - 20/02/2017 20:36:23
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