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Replying To Awwwwnow: "In Cavan from the 7th of May until the 24th July there was only 1,weekend when club matches were played.
Even when we went out of the qualifiers on the 16th July the CB insisted on continuing with the league rather than start the championship.
It then took 12 weeks to run the Senior Championship off . Cavan played 5 championship games from the league final at the end of April until 16th of July .
That's 11 weeks and no room for even 1 round of a club championship.
An ordinary county player over 21 in Cavanmight play 7 national league games, 4 Inter county championship games, 5 club championship games.
That's 16 games in 1O months if he plays in every game.
Averaging 2.5 games a month." Lots of clubs don't like playing in May because they will be without students doing college exams, and in June they will be missing the odd young player who is doing the leaving cert. You also have the problem of players packing it in once they are knocked out of the championship, if this happens in May or June you can be lucky to get 10 lads training for the rest of the year. There is no easy solution.
Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 25/01/2017 20:16:28
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Replying To gotmilk: "The argument I keep hearing is that we let the minority dictate the fixtures for the majority because they are playing at an elite level. That's fair enough point and I can see the point people are making. Yet a lot of the posters on here are saying we should rush through our best product to suit the needs of the elite. Is the CPA to represent the average Joe or is it to make sure that county players play in the club championship. I know if i had busted my hole the whole year, playing crappy league games on wet days just to give up my spot when a county lad comes I wouldn't be best pleased. If the CPA is representing the average club man they need to actually represent them, not the clubs, and not the county players.
That's just the way i see it lads, I'm fairly sure no one else agrees with me on it but hey isn't that life." I don't see how you would be rushing the inter county season.
My ideal would be for it to start 1st weekend in March and to finish on the August bank holiday weekend. That's 23 weeks to play everything off.
I'd have teams out practically every week also. I don't understand the GAA obsession with giving teams weeks to be prepare for games. Get them out, getting them playing games.
I'd also have the league integrated somehow into the championship.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4226 - 25/01/2017 22:44:24
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Replying To Soma: "The point you are missing gotmilk is that most lads would rather play with their brothers, cousins and schoolmates on the club team than with lads they may not know or like on the county team. I'd say Antrim would struggle to field a hurling team if you told the players they couldn't play club, and it would be a similar story in many counties. Your suggestion would end the competitions you are most keen to save." I don't agree with you. I think most would play county because it's where the fame and glory is, it's a recognition of your skill levels and recognises you as one of the best in your county.
Antrim hurling is a strange situation. Isn't the club scene in Antrim the reason they are so poor? Surely whamo or someone could confirm or deny this?
gotmilk (Fermanagh) - Posts: 4971 - 25/01/2017 23:13:50
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Replying To gotmilk: "I don't understand peoples need to rush through the intercounty season. The summer is the best time to market our games when we have zero competition. A solution to the fixture problem is play without the county players. Those that say you are robbing the clubs of their county men I have 2 responses.
1.) By waiting for the county man you are robbing a club member who has been there the whole time busting his hole in training.
2.) Look at Rugby. Local clubs are producing players for the provinces, they don't whinge about the provinces stealing their players (yes i know they get paid).
If the CPA really cared about club players they would be looking to play games without the county players, give the club man who slogs it out every week at training to sit on the bench his game." wouldnt compare ourselves to rugby..completely different sport and professional..clubs should never be forced to play big matches without their county players
alano12 (Dublin) - Posts: 2208 - 26/01/2017 04:07:22
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Replying To gotmilk: "Standard Irish responses here complain about everything and everyone. From what I can see here a lot of posters here would like to abolish the intercounty championship. That's fair enough but I bet you most of you couldn't tell me who won your club provincial in 2014 without the help of google. Most of you could tell me who won the inter county provincial championships.
Intercounty football and hurling is the best product of the gaa. It's the most marketable. It's what brings the money into the coffers that keeps the organisation going. Why would we destroy it?" why cant you look at things from more than just a marketing point of view?...i love both club and county...there is clearly room for both....gaa is nothing without the clubs...a lot of the county season is a terribly uncompetitive product especially in the provincial championship...club rugby has died due to the professionalism
alano12 (Dublin) - Posts: 2208 - 26/01/2017 04:10:19
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Replying To gotmilk: "Surely you are devaluing it by playing it in October? But if you rush through the current championship structure you are taking the game away from the public. When you rush through the All ireland championship you are taking the game out of the public eye. I know it's not a popular thing to say but the county is more important than the club when it comes to money and getting kids to fall in love with the game. How many kids pretend to be Bernard Brogan or the Gooch when playing in the back garden? How many pretend to be a local lad in the club?
If you work somewhere with people who have just a passing interest in gaelic games ask them who the current All Ireland champions in club and county. I know which one they will know." its an amateur sport..something which is consistently lost on you..go to more club games..the great thing about the gaa is the mix between club and county..there is more to life than marketing and money especially for an amateur sport
alano12 (Dublin) - Posts: 2208 - 26/01/2017 04:12:17
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Replying To gotmilk: "But for me I can't see why the club championship isn't played in the summer without the county players. When they are knocked out they can slot into the club teams if they are still in the championship. If a players isn't named in the matchday 26 he should be released back to his club and allowed to play in any games. Do all on the Dublin panel play Senior club football or do some of them play Junior or Intermediate? Could the championships not go on without these 26 players? Club players are getting game time, the elite are testing themselves against the best.
I would agree with you that there are plenty of people that pay in to see Connolly play football, he's an outstanding talent and worth admission fee on his own. But if you condense the intercounty season you are denying people the opportunity to see these players in the flesh more often. The last two years I have attended ulster semi finals that Fermanagh were not playing in. I did so in order to see some of the best players play at the minute. There are numerous other people who do the same as I do. If you were to move the two semis to the same day or time you wouldn't get that option.
For me it's a no brainer to keep the championship going throughout the summer. It's our best product, no competition and it is what leaves the greatest impression on kids, the future of the organisation." why would clubs play without county players?..why should a club be punished for having good players?...if county boards provided much more regular games for players things would run a lot smoother especially in weaker counties
alano12 (Dublin) - Posts: 2208 - 26/01/2017 04:14:30
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Replying To gotmilk: "The argument I keep hearing is that we let the minority dictate the fixtures for the majority because they are playing at an elite level. That's fair enough point and I can see the point people are making. Yet a lot of the posters on here are saying we should rush through our best product to suit the needs of the elite. Is the CPA to represent the average Joe or is it to make sure that county players play in the club championship. I know if i had busted my hole the whole year, playing crappy league games on wet days just to give up my spot when a county lad comes I wouldn't be best pleased. If the CPA is representing the average club man they need to actually represent them, not the clubs, and not the county players.
That's just the way i see it lads, I'm fairly sure no one else agrees with me on it but hey isn't that life." why would you be upset with a county player taking your place when hes clearly a superior player...are you honestly having a laugh?..your either good enough or your not...and county players generally speaking are always going to be better than the rest..i highly doubt many players have an issue with a superior player playing ahead of them
alano12 (Dublin) - Posts: 2208 - 26/01/2017 04:16:51
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Replying To Soma: "The point you are missing gotmilk is that most lads would rather play with their brothers, cousins and schoolmates on the club team than with lads they may not know or like on the county team. I'd say Antrim would struggle to field a hurling team if you told the players they couldn't play club, and it would be a similar story in many counties. Your suggestion would end the competitions you are most keen to save." dont honestly see why there isnt room for both...its a bit more complicated in places like dublin and kerry where their championship season lasts longer every year...the gaa is nothing without the strength of the clubs..and clubs shouldnt be punished for having county players...for someone to have a grievance over a better player who has been training hard all year for the good of the county to come in and get playing ahead of them because they are better is laughable to me
alano12 (Dublin) - Posts: 2208 - 26/01/2017 04:20:16
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Gotmilk, your contradicting yourself, you said that clubs should play without county players and then they slot into the club team when the county are knocked out and then you say that you'd be p!ssed off if your playing with the club during the league in the wet and then county lads are picked from the championship.
From a club player that plays during league in the sh!tty weather and take a few beatings because we're struggling for numbers, we do be dam glad to see the county lads for championship and even the lift they bring to training.
Also as has been said, I reckon those boys would pick a club championship game with us over a county game.
Joe_Bloggs (Tipperary) - Posts: 186 - 26/01/2017 08:38:13
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.club rugby has died due to the professionalism -- alano12 (Dublin) - Posts:1441 - 26/01/2017 04:10:19
absolute nonsense have you actually been to a club rugby game recently - yes the crowds are poor - junior soccer gets poor crowds but that dont mean its dead, Mind you there was 2500 at both young munster matches v garryowen in 2016, around the same at young musnter v cork con ail semi, the players involved are trainging 4 nights a week between pitch and gym , so no it aint dead,
Every rugby and soccer club in ireland have hundred of kids turning up for training/matches each weekend, Every ireland rugby and soccer internationalstarted off playing club rugby, the entire ireland under 20s panel have played club rugby this season, joey carbery played ail last year now he is an international. Also the standard is very good , same in junior soccer down here where we have 4 side in last 16 of fai junior.
And this fella says is dead .....no it aint
wouldnt be in favour of clubs playing without the county players myself - start the leagues earlier and GAA must insist that clubs start their championship no later than april
in limerick our senior championships have 5 group games, 2 quarters , 2 semis and final - if league started earlier you could play two rounds in april two rounds at start of may - a round in june - have abreak then for holidays and travel , come back in july/august for knockout stages, Even counties getting to All ireland final usually play once every three weeks, so the week after the championship game couldbe used to fit in a club game.
In rugby the ulster bank league fixtures are out in july all 18 rounds - apart from weather postponements its adhered to -its great for players and supporters as we all know when games are on - the club GAA player need something similar. In limerick our minor got to all ireland final - week after the semi they were release to their clubs for championship- gave them all a break from the county set up
janesboro (Limerick) - Posts: 1502 - 26/01/2017 10:36:11
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Never under estimate the relationship between county player and club , I was at a few weddings it was interesting in that the guest lists were absolute chock a block with club teammates over inter county team mates .
Inter county players pay a membership to their club , they are members of a club , they represent their county for a period of time only.
We have an inter county player he is welcomed with open arms when he is available , the week Dublin won the All Ireland he was decked out training our adult team , he turned up this St Stephan's day for Fathers v Singles game , I've met very very few people who are involved in the game in Dublin that would envisage a Dublin championship minus its best players , its the top competition in the county if you win it against opposition like Ballymun minus their stars its a hollow victory.
Currently as a successful county Dublin clubs make do without county players for league games ( majority of ) now we should lose them for championship as well , why oh why would you bother to train and mould young lads not to ever see the benefit of them in club colours .
Love the quote of the great Declan Browne who retired from inter county at 29 , he owed the club , he wanted to contribute while he still had something to offer , he said every player owes their club , some on here just don't seem to get it.
Damothedub (Dublin) - Posts: 5193 - 26/01/2017 11:02:23
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The Co Boards have to shape up, if the club championship is taking too long to play then players will continue to do what they are already doing and that is transferring to clubs in America for the summer, it's an experience and a chance that they can't turn down to travel abroad, time for Co Boards to set club matches dates in stone, they already know wheat dates county matches are and unless you end up in the qualifiers you have plenty of time to play club games up to quarter final stage, every county no matter how successful or not they are has to have the club championship quarters finals played within a 3 Sunday period (the 4th Sunday in July to 2nd Sunday in August). Club players are in a state of limbo, supporters travel the country to support the county team, club members travel throughout the county for club matches from underage to adult level, everybody is putting their shoulder to the wheel to accommodate and help the GAA, it's the Co Boards that are letting us down, why don't every county play their club champ games on the same weekend, for example we in Mayo had our quarter finals on a weekend while a neighbouring county with less clubs were still playing the final group matches, they were 1 round behind us. Better management by Croke Park in qualifier fixtures dates and Co Boards setting the club champ dates in stone will eventually sort this out
riverboys (Mayo) - Posts: 1389 - 26/01/2017 13:16:13
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Replying To janesboro: ".club rugby has died due to the professionalism -- alano12 (Dublin) - Posts:1441 - 26/01/2017 04:10:19
absolute nonsense have you actually been to a club rugby game recently - yes the crowds are poor - junior soccer gets poor crowds but that dont mean its dead, Mind you there was 2500 at both young munster matches v garryowen in 2016, around the same at young musnter v cork con ail semi, the players involved are trainging 4 nights a week between pitch and gym , so no it aint dead,
Every rugby and soccer club in ireland have hundred of kids turning up for training/matches each weekend, Every ireland rugby and soccer internationalstarted off playing club rugby, the entire ireland under 20s panel have played club rugby this season, joey carbery played ail last year now he is an international. Also the standard is very good , same in junior soccer down here where we have 4 side in last 16 of fai junior.
And this fella says is dead .....no it aint
wouldnt be in favour of clubs playing without the county players myself - start the leagues earlier and GAA must insist that clubs start their championship no later than april
in limerick our senior championships have 5 group games, 2 quarters , 2 semis and final - if league started earlier you could play two rounds in april two rounds at start of may - a round in june - have abreak then for holidays and travel , come back in july/august for knockout stages, Even counties getting to All ireland final usually play once every three weeks, so the week after the championship game couldbe used to fit in a club game.
In rugby the ulster bank league fixtures are out in july all 18 rounds - apart from weather postponements its adhered to -its great for players and supporters as we all know when games are on - the club GAA player need something similar. In limerick our minor got to all ireland final - week after the semi they were release to their clubs for championship- gave them all a break from the county set up" why should clubs be punished for having good players?..club rugby is very much dead due to professionalism...attendances are completely dead...lose the fandom, that is the reality
alano12 (Dublin) - Posts: 2208 - 26/01/2017 15:27:59
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Replying To Damothedub: "Never under estimate the relationship between county player and club , I was at a few weddings it was interesting in that the guest lists were absolute chock a block with club teammates over inter county team mates .
Inter county players pay a membership to their club , they are members of a club , they represent their county for a period of time only.
We have an inter county player he is welcomed with open arms when he is available , the week Dublin won the All Ireland he was decked out training our adult team , he turned up this St Stephan's day for Fathers v Singles game , I've met very very few people who are involved in the game in Dublin that would envisage a Dublin championship minus its best players , its the top competition in the county if you win it against opposition like Ballymun minus their stars its a hollow victory.
Currently as a successful county Dublin clubs make do without county players for league games ( majority of ) now we should lose them for championship as well , why oh why would you bother to train and mould young lads not to ever see the benefit of them in club colours .
Love the quote of the great Declan Browne who retired from inter county at 29 , he owed the club , he wanted to contribute while he still had something to offer , he said every player owes their club , some on here just don't seem to get it." well said...most county lads love playing for their club..its laughable to not let them play for their club or that someone would be upset for losing their place to them when its completely understandable that they are going to be playing...its being made out as if this is some lad on a big salary playing the glamour game...most county lads are training hard all year round and get very little reward for it at that level
alano12 (Dublin) - Posts: 2208 - 26/01/2017 15:30:51
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Replying To janesboro: ".club rugby has died due to the professionalism -- alano12 (Dublin) - Posts:1441 - 26/01/2017 04:10:19
absolute nonsense have you actually been to a club rugby game recently - yes the crowds are poor - junior soccer gets poor crowds but that dont mean its dead, Mind you there was 2500 at both young munster matches v garryowen in 2016, around the same at young musnter v cork con ail semi, the players involved are trainging 4 nights a week between pitch and gym , so no it aint dead,
Every rugby and soccer club in ireland have hundred of kids turning up for training/matches each weekend, Every ireland rugby and soccer internationalstarted off playing club rugby, the entire ireland under 20s panel have played club rugby this season, joey carbery played ail last year now he is an international. Also the standard is very good , same in junior soccer down here where we have 4 side in last 16 of fai junior.
And this fella says is dead .....no it aint
wouldnt be in favour of clubs playing without the county players myself - start the leagues earlier and GAA must insist that clubs start their championship no later than april
in limerick our senior championships have 5 group games, 2 quarters , 2 semis and final - if league started earlier you could play two rounds in april two rounds at start of may - a round in june - have abreak then for holidays and travel , come back in july/august for knockout stages, Even counties getting to All ireland final usually play once every three weeks, so the week after the championship game couldbe used to fit in a club game.
In rugby the ulster bank league fixtures are out in july all 18 rounds - apart from weather postponements its adhered to -its great for players and supporters as we all know when games are on - the club GAA player need something similar. In limerick our minor got to all ireland final - week after the semi they were release to their clubs for championship- gave them all a break from the county set up" club rugby is dead at the highest level janesboro like it or not..look what attendances used to be compared to now...professionalism hurt the club game badly...dont even get me started on the mess that is grassroots soccer...we barely have people turn up for our own domestic league never mind junior soccer
alano12 (Dublin) - Posts: 2208 - 26/01/2017 15:32:56
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alano - club rugby is dead at the highest level janesboro like it or not..look what attendances used to be compared to now
its not i support my club in the ulster bank league home and away- the attendances are down - but it aint dead - the players give it their all train their nuts off and the supporters are as passionate about it it as they are at club hurling and football and believe me i go to a lot of club hurling and football as well during the summer, next week we will have 2500 at garryowen v young munsters, maybe it you actually went to a club game you would see it aint dead,
janesboro (Limerick) - Posts: 1502 - 26/01/2017 17:11:34
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Replying To gotmilk: "I don't agree with you. I think most would play county because it's where the fame and glory is, it's a recognition of your skill levels and recognises you as one of the best in your county.
Antrim hurling is a strange situation. Isn't the club scene in Antrim the reason they are so poor? Surely whamo or someone could confirm or deny this?" The hurling stronghold in Antrim is in the North of the county. These clubs have huge rivalries and having been at school with people from these areas I'd say that one club in particular would cause plenty of the friction.
Some of the club rivalry angle is an excuse too. We're just not strong enough to compete.
We have 4 really strong clubs capable of holding their own with anyone but there still aren't enough quality players to support a successful county team.
Antrim's geography doesn't help matters, we are completely cut off from the rest of the hurling stronghold areas. It makes juvenile development tough.
No solution was ever found to accommodate us properly in the underage All Ireland championships. Getting hammered every year by a significantly better team in your 1 proper match every year doesn't do a whole lot for instilling pride in the county jersey from an early age.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4226 - 26/01/2017 18:07:03
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Replying To Whammo86: "The hurling stronghold in Antrim is in the North of the county. These clubs have huge rivalries and having been at school with people from these areas I'd say that one club in particular would cause plenty of the friction.
Some of the club rivalry angle is an excuse too. We're just not strong enough to compete.
We have 4 really strong clubs capable of holding their own with anyone but there still aren't enough quality players to support a successful county team.
Antrim's geography doesn't help matters, we are completely cut off from the rest of the hurling stronghold areas. It makes juvenile development tough.
No solution was ever found to accommodate us properly in the underage All Ireland championships. Getting hammered every year by a significantly better team in your 1 proper match every year doesn't do a whole lot for instilling pride in the county jersey from an early age." Very hard to know what to say to your post , anyone who truly had the GAA at heart would feel crap at your post , all I can say is total admiration for those up there that fight the good fight
Damothedub (Dublin) - Posts: 5193 - 26/01/2017 22:36:44
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Replying To janesboro: "alano - club rugby is dead at the highest level janesboro like it or not..look what attendances used to be compared to now
its not i support my club in the ulster bank league home and away- the attendances are down - but it aint dead - the players give it their all train their nuts off and the supporters are as passionate about it it as they are at club hurling and football and believe me i go to a lot of club hurling and football as well during the summer, next week we will have 2500 at garryowen v young munsters, maybe it you actually went to a club game you would see it aint dead," It is dead..professionalism hasn't been good for club rugby. Look how low attendances are now for the average club game..I say this às someone who has attended games and have family involved in the club game for years...that's just my experience
alano12 (Dublin) - Posts: 2208 - 27/01/2017 00:18:50
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