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Replying To royaldunne: "Hasn't done you much good though , has it? When you see the blue of Dublin these days the Kerry shorts turn a off colour yellow, lucky it goes with the strip. :)" will you please stop talking so much crap! were hardly in a position to be slagging others on losing to Dublin seeing as that's all we've done last few years! you yourself are setting us up for a massive fall with all this talk of promotion and getting to the last 8. we just need to take every game as they come, yes promotion would be good but if it doesn't come so be it. a decent showing in championship is what we need if its not last 8 we can hardly complain
meathforsam09 (Meath) - Posts: 116 - 18/01/2017 14:25:30
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Replying To TheHermit: "5 odd years out of 133 doesn't exactly fit the word 'usually', enjoy your time in the Sun while you can..." Three times in Kerry's long and successful career that there has been a drought. It took the footballers 16 years to win their first ever All Ireland football in 1903. The Kerry hurlers had an All Ireland some 12 years before that. The second drought was between 1914 and 1924 and the last drought was between 1986 and 1997.
OLLIE (Louth) - Posts: 12224 - 18/01/2017 14:36:52
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Replying To OLLIE: "Three times in Kerry's long and successful career that there has been a drought. It took the footballers 16 years to win their first ever All Ireland football in 1903. The Kerry hurlers had an All Ireland some 12 years before that. The second drought was between 1914 and 1924 and the last drought was between 1986 and 1997." Well Ollie, Kerry didn't really get their act together until around 1900 when a certain TF O'Sullivan came on the scene (the man who also brought in the infamous Foreign Games Ban).
As for 1914-1924, well in Kerry there was a lot more than football going on in those years.
And as for the 11 year Famine, well that's what happens when you keep 50 odd All-Ireland medals on the bench rather than realising that their day is gone and that you'd better trust in youth!
TheHermit (Kerry) - Posts: 6354 - 18/01/2017 14:53:55
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Kerry should of got their act together for the 1910 All Ireland final. Rumours going around the Boyne Valley and the Cooley Mountains at the time that they were afraid to play the mighty Wee men.
OLLIE (Louth) - Posts: 12224 - 18/01/2017 15:34:15
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Replying To TheHermit: "You can devise any system you want Username, rest assured the cream of Kerry will always rise to the top..." A genuine question though mate, where do you think Kerry are at, I find it a difficult one to judge. Am I right in saying the last current Div 1 side they played in the championship apart from Dublin was Cork in the Munster final a couple of year ago? I could be wrong on that, but if true crazy when you considering a semi and a final appearance.
I would be interested to get a sense of where you think they are at when it comes to the top counties, it's a tricky one as they very early play the top calibre teams apart from Dublin.
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 18/01/2017 16:04:50
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Replying To OLLIE: "Kerry should of got their act together for the 1910 All Ireland final. Rumours going around the Boyne Valley and the Cooley Mountains at the time that they were afraid to play the mighty Wee men." No comment, apparently yer Chairman at the time said Kerry were even too scared to meet the Louth junior team.
TheHermit (Kerry) - Posts: 6354 - 18/01/2017 16:55:02
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Replying To TheHermit: "No comment, apparently yer Chairman at the time said Kerry were even too scared to meet the Louth junior team." He was right. In the first All Ireland junior football final Wee reached the final in 1912.
OLLIE (Louth) - Posts: 12224 - 18/01/2017 17:31:12
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MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts:10405 - most of what you say is correct and I will add that none of the players coming back will make much difference and there are at least as good if not better out there. I expect the Mc Entee's will improve the team though, but by how much is anybody's guess. A decent run in the championship would be good and I see that as much more important as the championship. In the league some of the top teams like Dublin/Mayo/Kerry experiment in many of their matches.
browncows (Meath) - Posts: 2342 - 18/01/2017 18:10:27
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Username Kerry can't do anything about who they've ended up facing in the All-Ireland series these last two years, that's just the luck of the draw.
As for where we are at, well we're there or there abouts - just like most years.
Is the Kerry team we've seen since 2014 of the same caliber as the team of ten years ago - No. That team will go down as one of the greatest teams ever. And there is no doubt since 2012 we have been in a transitional period. That was inevitable as that team began to slowly break up. To me it makes Fitzmaurice's achievements all the more admirable, 4 Munster titles, 4 semi-final appearances, 2 final appearances and that brilliant All-Ireland in 2014.
In Kerry we are that bit slower than other counties to introduce youth. We generally wait until they are over 21-22 before they are put into the senior set-up. So there was a gap there between the beginning of this great run in the Minor grade and seeing the fruits of that labour at senior level. But some of the products of those teams are now beginning to be brought in. Most people down here are expecting a HUGE year for the U-21's. I think we will all be pretty disappointed is we don't capture a Munster title at that grade and give the All-Ireland itself a serious rattle.
So where does that leave us? Look IMO, Kerry are and have been one of the top 3 teams in the country during Fitzmaurice's reign. We still have some outstanding players, some outstanding forwards and a panel which is the envy of most.
I don't think the gap between us and Dublin is very big. We could have beaten you last August, we didn't play for 20 minutes and yet went in at half time 5 points up. It was pretty criminal coming out and letting that lead slip so easily. But we wrestled back control of the game and with 4-5 minutes to go it was there for the taking. As for 2015, well we didn't turn up for whatever reason and still could have stolen it if Killian hand't dropped the ball laid off by Star with 7-8 minutes to go.
The point I'm getting at is I don't see Dublin as some unbeatable juggernaut. I have never gone into a Dublin game in the past 5 years saying Kerry can't beat them There's certainly no one on the Kerry team that thinks that, if they did they wouldn't be allowed in a Kerry jersey.
There's a lot of competition in this panel this year. There's a couple of lads who got game time last year in the League and were injured in the Championship who will be massive players over the next few years. Add to them the younger lads coming through and the likes of Darran, Gooch, Star and Aidan (hopefully) still willing to be part of it and I think with a bit of luck there's nothing to say we can't take Sam back to Kerry.
TheHermit (Kerry) - Posts: 6354 - 18/01/2017 19:10:16
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Replying To TheHermit: "Username Kerry can't do anything about who they've ended up facing in the All-Ireland series these last two years, that's just the luck of the draw.
As for where we are at, well we're there or there abouts - just like most years.
Is the Kerry team we've seen since 2014 of the same caliber as the team of ten years ago - No. That team will go down as one of the greatest teams ever. And there is no doubt since 2012 we have been in a transitional period. That was inevitable as that team began to slowly break up. To me it makes Fitzmaurice's achievements all the more admirable, 4 Munster titles, 4 semi-final appearances, 2 final appearances and that brilliant All-Ireland in 2014.
In Kerry we are that bit slower than other counties to introduce youth. We generally wait until they are over 21-22 before they are put into the senior set-up. So there was a gap there between the beginning of this great run in the Minor grade and seeing the fruits of that labour at senior level. But some of the products of those teams are now beginning to be brought in. Most people down here are expecting a HUGE year for the U-21's. I think we will all be pretty disappointed is we don't capture a Munster title at that grade and give the All-Ireland itself a serious rattle.
So where does that leave us? Look IMO, Kerry are and have been one of the top 3 teams in the country during Fitzmaurice's reign. We still have some outstanding players, some outstanding forwards and a panel which is the envy of most.
I don't think the gap between us and Dublin is very big. We could have beaten you last August, we didn't play for 20 minutes and yet went in at half time 5 points up. It was pretty criminal coming out and letting that lead slip so easily. But we wrestled back control of the game and with 4-5 minutes to go it was there for the taking. As for 2015, well we didn't turn up for whatever reason and still could have stolen it if Killian hand't dropped the ball laid off by Star with 7-8 minutes to go.
The point I'm getting at is I don't see Dublin as some unbeatable juggernaut. I have never gone into a Dublin game in the past 5 years saying Kerry can't beat them There's certainly no one on the Kerry team that thinks that, if they did they wouldn't be allowed in a Kerry jersey.
There's a lot of competition in this panel this year. There's a couple of lads who got game time last year in the League and were injured in the Championship who will be massive players over the next few years. Add to them the younger lads coming through and the likes of Darran, Gooch, Star and Aidan (hopefully) still willing to be part of it and I think with a bit of luck there's nothing to say we can't take Sam back to Kerry." I should add the proviso that things are looking good so long as that fella from Listowel is kept away from taking anymore of our youth!
TheHermit (Kerry) - Posts: 6354 - 18/01/2017 19:40:17
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Replying To meathforsam09: "will you please stop talking so much crap! were hardly in a position to be slagging others on losing to Dublin seeing as that's all we've done last few years! you yourself are setting us up for a massive fall with all this talk of promotion and getting to the last 8. we just need to take every game as they come, yes promotion would be good but if it doesn't come so be it. a decent showing in championship is what we need if its not last 8 we can hardly complain" Sort I didn't know I cc that to you.gs
royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 18/01/2017 21:01:17
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Replying To MesAmis: "Ahh there is no.questioning the abilities of keoghan, Reilly O'Sullivan even the likes of Wallace Newman and McMahon on their day would walk onto majority of teams in country, also with Menton and Forde making themselves available to Andy (didn't to o'dowd) will be a huge boost. You can throw a few of the u21s in too. The players are their to be competitive, not winning all Ireland but certainly to be in division one and reaching last 8, that's what we are saying. You are right about dubs beating the minors in 11, but people go on about mayo and Tyrone players coming through from that era and forget that Meath team actually beat this same teams , and only failed against dubs.
royaldunne (Meath) - Posts:10092 - 18/01/2017 13:23:04
I'll give you Keoghan but I'm not sure I've seen anything from the rest you mentioned that'd make me believe they are much better than they've shown in the last few years.
Players can improve though." Id actually rate O'Sullivan better than keoghan at this stage, the guy is top notch. Won Meath player of year last year. Reilly is now capt and did very well last year. The important thing is to make sure its not a one man scoring team. That's where new talent is coming in.
royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 18/01/2017 21:06:42
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Replying To TheHermit: "Username Kerry can't do anything about who they've ended up facing in the All-Ireland series these last two years, that's just the luck of the draw.
As for where we are at, well we're there or there abouts - just like most years.
Is the Kerry team we've seen since 2014 of the same caliber as the team of ten years ago - No. That team will go down as one of the greatest teams ever. And there is no doubt since 2012 we have been in a transitional period. That was inevitable as that team began to slowly break up. To me it makes Fitzmaurice's achievements all the more admirable, 4 Munster titles, 4 semi-final appearances, 2 final appearances and that brilliant All-Ireland in 2014.
In Kerry we are that bit slower than other counties to introduce youth. We generally wait until they are over 21-22 before they are put into the senior set-up. So there was a gap there between the beginning of this great run in the Minor grade and seeing the fruits of that labour at senior level. But some of the products of those teams are now beginning to be brought in. Most people down here are expecting a HUGE year for the U-21's. I think we will all be pretty disappointed is we don't capture a Munster title at that grade and give the All-Ireland itself a serious rattle.
So where does that leave us? Look IMO, Kerry are and have been one of the top 3 teams in the country during Fitzmaurice's reign. We still have some outstanding players, some outstanding forwards and a panel which is the envy of most.
I don't think the gap between us and Dublin is very big. We could have beaten you last August, we didn't play for 20 minutes and yet went in at half time 5 points up. It was pretty criminal coming out and letting that lead slip so easily. But we wrestled back control of the game and with 4-5 minutes to go it was there for the taking. As for 2015, well we didn't turn up for whatever reason and still could have stolen it if Killian hand't dropped the ball laid off by Star with 7-8 minutes to go.
The point I'm getting at is I don't see Dublin as some unbeatable juggernaut. I have never gone into a Dublin game in the past 5 years saying Kerry can't beat them There's certainly no one on the Kerry team that thinks that, if they did they wouldn't be allowed in a Kerry jersey.
There's a lot of competition in this panel this year. There's a couple of lads who got game time last year in the League and were injured in the Championship who will be massive players over the next few years. Add to them the younger lads coming through and the likes of Darran, Gooch, Star and Aidan (hopefully) still willing to be part of it and I think with a bit of luck there's nothing to say we can't take Sam back to Kerry." Thanks for that mate, it's an interesting insight, I think this year will be a big test for you, all going according to logic it could be Mayo in the semi final, think that will be an interesting yard stick.
One of the fascinating things will be how Fitzmaurice lines up against an Ultra defensive Mayo and presuming Dublin get to the final against them, two very different approaches, but he's good on tactics, it would be more the time and prep, as he had a good couple of months to prepare for us last year.
As always mate we can expect Kerry to be eating at the top table come August, it's anyone's game from there, it will be an interesting evolution, surely the young lads need blooding this year, would imagine if they go again, Donaghy, Gooch o'm won't be going again next year and presumably you would want them lads to be the bridge in expierence of historical success and standards. I'll be watching the Lerry league sides with interest.
I know Mark O' Conmor headed of mate, but is there any truth in the rumours that as many as five others have "tapped" by Kennelly, young Clifford was one of the names I heard.
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 19/01/2017 03:09:14
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Id actually rate O'Sullivan better than keoghan at this stage, the guy is top notch. Won Meath player of year last year. Reilly is now capt and did very well last year. The important thing is to make sure its not a one man scoring team. That's where new talent is coming in.
royaldunne (Meath) - Posts:10099 - 18/01/2017 21:06:42 1946772
I'll take your word on O'Sullivan as I've not seen enough of him. Big fan of Keoghan though.
Disagree with you about Reilly. Don't rate him highly at all. He reminds me of someone like Mark Vaughan who played for the Dubs during the 00s. Talented but fails to deliver when it matters most.
MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13710 - 19/01/2017 08:27:47
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Replying To royaldunne: " Replying To MesAmis: "Ahh there is no.questioning the abilities of keoghan, Reilly O'Sullivan even the likes of Wallace Newman and McMahon on their day would walk onto majority of teams in country, also with Menton and Forde making themselves available to Andy (didn't to o'dowd) will be a huge boost. You can throw a few of the u21s in too. The players are their to be competitive, not winning all Ireland but certainly to be in division one and reaching last 8, that's what we are saying. You are right about dubs beating the minors in 11, but people go on about mayo and Tyrone players coming through from that era and forget that Meath team actually beat this same teams , and only failed against dubs.
royaldunne (Meath) - Posts:10092 - 18/01/2017 13:23:04
I'll give you Keoghan but I'm not sure I've seen anything from the rest you mentioned that'd make me believe they are much better than they've shown in the last few years.
Players can improve though." Id actually rate O'Sullivan better than keoghan at this stage, the guy is top notch. Won Meath player of year last year. Reilly is now capt and did very well last year. The important thing is to make sure its not a one man scoring team. That's where new talent is coming in."
If you ask any Dublin, Mayo, Kerry or Tyrone fan they'd pick Keoghan ahead of anyone
meathforsam09 (Meath) - Posts: 116 - 19/01/2017 09:16:11
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Replying To TheUsername: "Thanks for that mate, it's an interesting insight, I think this year will be a big test for you, all going according to logic it could be Mayo in the semi final, think that will be an interesting yard stick.
One of the fascinating things will be how Fitzmaurice lines up against an Ultra defensive Mayo and presuming Dublin get to the final against them, two very different approaches, but he's good on tactics, it would be more the time and prep, as he had a good couple of months to prepare for us last year.
As always mate we can expect Kerry to be eating at the top table come August, it's anyone's game from there, it will be an interesting evolution, surely the young lads need blooding this year, would imagine if they go again, Donaghy, Gooch o'm won't be going again next year and presumably you would want them lads to be the bridge in expierence of historical success and standards. I'll be watching the Lerry league sides with interest.
I know Mark O' Conmor headed of mate, but is there any truth in the rumours that as many as five others have "tapped" by Kennelly, young Clifford was one of the names I heard." Aye there's truth in that, at the minute I think 4 of our minors are out in Florida at that damn Aussie bootcamp. Sure the Sem were playing in the Corn Uí Mhuirí yesterday without David Shaw our full forward from last September's minor side.
He having a field day in Kerry bringing over these young lads. But if they want to know the reality, all they need to do is look at the shell of a player Tommy Walsh is compared with the force of nature he was 7-8 years ago.
I really hope both the Kerry Co Board and the GAA in general step in and try and put restrictions on this stuff, it doesn't seem fair that coaches at all levels but so much time into developing these lads only for them to be snatched away.
TheHermit (Kerry) - Posts: 6354 - 19/01/2017 10:05:19
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Replying To meathforsam09: " Replying To royaldunne: "[quote=MesAmis: "Ahh there is no.questioning the abilities of keoghan, Reilly O'Sullivan even the likes of Wallace Newman and McMahon on their day would walk onto majority of teams in country, also with Menton and Forde making themselves available to Andy (didn't to o'dowd) will be a huge boost. You can throw a few of the u21s in too. The players are their to be competitive, not winning all Ireland but certainly to be in division one and reaching last 8, that's what we are saying. You are right about dubs beating the minors in 11, but people go on about mayo and Tyrone players coming through from that era and forget that Meath team actually beat this same teams , and only failed against dubs.
royaldunne (Meath) - Posts:10092 - 18/01/2017 13:23:04
I'll give you Keoghan but I'm not sure I've seen anything from the rest you mentioned that'd make me believe they are much better than they've shown in the last few years.
Players can improve though." Id actually rate O'Sullivan better than keoghan at this stage, the guy is top notch. Won Meath player of year last year. Reilly is now capt and did very well last year. The important thing is to make sure its not a one man scoring team. That's where new talent is coming in."
If you ask any Dublin, Mayo, Kerry or Tyrone fan they'd pick Keoghan ahead of anyone"]Just one thing, last year in a terrible performance v dubs, who scored 3 points from play and was fouled for another 3. Lazy analysis and clichéd statement does not make them true. Btw if Dublin not worried about him why oh why is he the only one of Meath forwards they double mark?? Honest question, why is that ?
royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 19/01/2017 10:34:20
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Replying To meathforsam09: " Replying To royaldunne: "[quote=MesAmis: "Ahh there is no.questioning the abilities of keoghan, Reilly O'Sullivan even the likes of Wallace Newman and McMahon on their day would walk onto majority of teams in country, also with Menton and Forde making themselves available to Andy (didn't to o'dowd) will be a huge boost. You can throw a few of the u21s in too. The players are their to be competitive, not winning all Ireland but certainly to be in division one and reaching last 8, that's what we are saying. You are right about dubs beating the minors in 11, but people go on about mayo and Tyrone players coming through from that era and forget that Meath team actually beat this same teams , and only failed against dubs.
royaldunne (Meath) - Posts:10092 - 18/01/2017 13:23:04
I'll give you Keoghan but I'm not sure I've seen anything from the rest you mentioned that'd make me believe they are much better than they've shown in the last few years.
Players can improve though." Id actually rate O'Sullivan better than keoghan at this stage, the guy is top notch. Won Meath player of year last year. Reilly is now capt and did very well last year. The important thing is to make sure its not a one man scoring team. That's where new talent is coming in."
If you ask any Dublin, Mayo, Kerry or Tyrone fan they'd pick Keoghan ahead of anyone"]Just one thing, last year in a terrible performance v dubs, who scored 3 points from play and was fouled for another 3. Lazy analysis and clichéd statement does not make them true. Btw if Dublin not worried about him why oh why is he the only one of Meath forwards they double mark?? Honest question, why is that ?
Also in after match ratings he got the highest score of any Meath player, now ok they were all pretty awful and not much to crow about,
royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 19/01/2017 10:35:40
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Replying To meathforsam09: " Replying To royaldunne: "[quote=MesAmis: "Ahh there is no.questioning the abilities of keoghan, Reilly O'Sullivan even the likes of Wallace Newman and McMahon on their day would walk onto majority of teams in country, also with Menton and Forde making themselves available to Andy (didn't to o'dowd) will be a huge boost. You can throw a few of the u21s in too. The players are their to be competitive, not winning all Ireland but certainly to be in division one and reaching last 8, that's what we are saying. You are right about dubs beating the minors in 11, but people go on about mayo and Tyrone players coming through from that era and forget that Meath team actually beat this same teams , and only failed against dubs.
royaldunne (Meath) - Posts:10092 - 18/01/2017 13:23:04
I'll give you Keoghan but I'm not sure I've seen anything from the rest you mentioned that'd make me believe they are much better than they've shown in the last few years.
Players can improve though." Id actually rate O'Sullivan better than keoghan at this stage, the guy is top notch. Won Meath player of year last year. Reilly is now capt and did very well last year. The important thing is to make sure its not a one man scoring team. That's where new talent is coming in."
If you ask any Dublin, Mayo, Kerry or Tyrone fan they'd pick Keoghan ahead of anyone"]Also since he only on panel since 10 we haven't played Kerry or mayo in any comp, so I dont think they could accurately judge.
royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 19/01/2017 10:37:59
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Replying To TheHermit: "Aye there's truth in that, at the minute I think 4 of our minors are out in Florida at that damn Aussie bootcamp. Sure the Sem were playing in the Corn Uí Mhuirí yesterday without David Shaw our full forward from last September's minor side.
He having a field day in Kerry bringing over these young lads. But if they want to know the reality, all they need to do is look at the shell of a player Tommy Walsh is compared with the force of nature he was 7-8 years ago.
I really hope both the Kerry Co Board and the GAA in general step in and try and put restrictions on this stuff, it doesn't seem fair that coaches at all levels but so much time into developing these lads only for them to be snatched away." I really do sympathise mate that's not condescending in anyway, Kerrys problem today will be another counties soon enough. I remember following Kilkenny through underage and gutted when he went over, thankfully that worked out for us. But their will be other players in other counties when a successfull minor or u21 team comes through. If a county like Kerry with the history and possibility of success can't keep hold of some of its best youth youth, it spells big problems for the game in general.
With the demands and sacrifices of GAA ever increasing and these lads trying to forge a life through education, work, relationships and growing up in the public eye for themselves in the midst of these sacrifices the lure of compensation is an obvious one. The solution for me lies in a co-ordinated response beyond county board level, it needs to be Central council and the GPA. Sports grants to assist these fellas get their lives on their feet through education, some kind of partnership in industry that these fellas can have a protected opportunity for work or at least pathway to develop a career in tandem with their GAA careers. Surely that could be negotiated and co-ordinated between the GPA and GAA and administered locally through the county board, it would also assist in keeping hold of lads who emigrate, or basicalLy have to put food on the table for family.
This is an attack on the game as a whole for me, it needs a national response and strategy to be developed, Kerrys problem today will be another counties soon enough.
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 20/01/2017 17:50:03
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