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Replying To hurlingexpert: "Loughnanne said our 3 problems are, puckouts, ball winners and feee taking. Now on the face of it they are 3 fair points. The issue i have with his comments are what he said about '13 and about the character and ability of the current squad.
Just going back to his points , there is only 1 player on the panel who could be brought in as a ball winning half forward. Thats is peter duggan, if peter could only preduce his club and underage form and class at this level he would solve all our problems. He is a quality free taker and incredible in the air. For some reason that i dont think anyone here knows why - peter has never came close to delivering at this level.
Another point to note is that the best free taker on the panel is bobby duggan who also seems to be out of favour , although i understand he is going on a j1 this summer." I have been telling you for years that Clare dont have a good keeper either in terms of puck outs or shot stopping. I have been telling you since 2013 that you don't have ball winners. You argued those points time and again. Now 3 or 4 years after I point it out Loughnane says it and you agree. Loughnane is wrong on one count and lousy on another. First of all Kelly or McGrath can take frees so I don't see free taking as being a problem. As for 2013 we all know it wasn't a good year we all know Limerick got what golfers call the yips in the semi I told you at the time that it was an average Cork team and we all know the sweeper system and the roving 11 caught other teams out. I told you all of this in early 2014. However Clare won the AI when everyone else would have loved to. Attempting to undermine that now is lousy. If he is trying to say that the 95 and 97 team was better then no question but winning in 13 with such a young team was a huge achievement and the dignified thing to do would be to accept that and not attempt to undermine it. I have always said Clare are overrated I can't see Clare making a semi this year but I would never ever undermine whet was achieved in 2013 and in particular Davy s contribution.
disillusiondfan (Limerick) - Posts: 4279 - 10/06/2017 08:42:41
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Replying To disillusiondfan: "I have been telling you for years that Clare dont have a good keeper either in terms of puck outs or shot stopping. I have been telling you since 2013 that you don't have ball winners. You argued those points time and again. Now 3 or 4 years after I point it out Loughnane says it and you agree. Loughnane is wrong on one count and lousy on another. First of all Kelly or McGrath can take frees so I don't see free taking as being a problem. As for 2013 we all know it wasn't a good year we all know Limerick got what golfers call the yips in the semi I told you at the time that it was an average Cork team and we all know the sweeper system and the roving 11 caught other teams out. I told you all of this in early 2014. However Clare won the AI when everyone else would have loved to. Attempting to undermine that now is lousy. If he is trying to say that the 95 and 97 team was better then no question but winning in 13 with such a young team was a huge achievement and the dignified thing to do would be to accept that and not attempt to undermine it. I have always said Clare are overrated I can't see Clare making a semi this year but I would never ever undermine whet was achieved in 2013 and in particular Davy s contribution." You also stated on this forum that you 'cannot see Clare beating Limerick this year'
pj_mcmanus (Limerick) - Posts: 431 - 10/06/2017 13:05:27
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Replying To pj_mcmanus: "You also stated on this forum that you 'cannot see Clare beating Limerick this year'" In the interest of fairness can I point out that I made that comment before Byrnes and Hegarty got injured. I think I subsequently posted on the Limerick page that I was less confident after both players had been ruled out ( trying v hard to stay off HS so not sure on that one). Here's a stick for you to beat me with in the future I'm fairly sure that limerick will be the only team to Clare this years c ship. Now PJ store that one away for future use.
disillusiondfan (Limerick) - Posts: 4279 - 10/06/2017 14:21:52
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Replying To disillusiondfan: "In the interest of fairness can I point out that I made that comment before Byrnes and Hegarty got injured. I think I subsequently posted on the Limerick page that I was less confident after both players had been ruled out ( trying v hard to stay off HS so not sure on that one). Here's a stick for you to beat me with in the future I'm fairly sure that limerick will be the only team to Clare this years c ship. Now PJ store that one away for future use." You're some laugh DF.
If two injuries made you change your mind you couldn't have been too confident in the first place. Retirement suits you
LohansRedHelmet (Clare) - Posts: 2491 - 11/06/2017 11:39:34
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I never said any of our keepers were top class but i did always believe (and still do) that our keepers (kelly in particular) for the last few years have been more than adequate and well up to this level. Just not up to the top class keepers of the last era ie. davy, donal, og, cummins, fitzhenry etc..
I also never said we had a quality ball winning half forward line. I have always said that conlon is (arguably) the best ball winner in the country. After that i have always believe that we had the tools to successfully compete at puckouts by playing to our strengths ie using shorter more accurate puckouts to find our pacey players in space. I dont think any other team has players with the pace and movement capabilities around the middlw third as us - with galvin, kelly, reidy and podge all in that area.
I was more than happy that with the option of conlon going direct and having the other lads running into space that we wouldnt have any problem retaining our own puckouts.
Now obviously i am in no position to explain what we were trying to do with puckouts against limeric, but it was clearly a terrible tactic and i am very disappointed with the management about this area of our approach. Because it made no sense to me!?
Cork have no more ball winners than we have. They have harnedy and nothing else. They destroyed tipps highly regarded half backline by playing to their strengths and not landing ball down top of them. Movement around the middle and accurate snappy puckouts from nash won that game for them more than anything else. It was actually a masterclass from nash.
Im not sure if fahy is capable of this though which is obviously a worry. Management though have been around the game for long enough to have a solution up their sleeves.
hurlingexpert (Clare) - Posts: 1941 - 12/06/2017 10:28:29
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Ger told this Clare squad back in December that they were good enough to win another All Ireland. He is now trying to motivate them for the final. It is obvious. Take no heed of it.
In the last few years he has written off, in his words the following teams.. KK (functional), Galway (gutless), Tipp (not very good and overrated), Cork (lack the talent) , Dublin (not natural hurlers) , Limerick (same as cork), Offaly (overweight and unfit) and now ourselves (poor, too small, lucky, overrated etc..)!
Clare needed to beat Limerick by hook or by crook and they did. Monkey off the back. Not our problem if limerick are poor, you beat what is in front of you.
I think there is a massive performance in this team and I think they will deliver one of July 9th.
Clareman (Clare) - Posts: 1056 - 12/06/2017 13:36:37
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Replying To Clareman: "Ger told this Clare squad back in December that they were good enough to win another All Ireland. He is now trying to motivate them for the final. It is obvious. Take no heed of it.
In the last few years he has written off, in his words the following teams.. KK (functional), Galway (gutless), Tipp (not very good and overrated), Cork (lack the talent) , Dublin (not natural hurlers) , Limerick (same as cork), Offaly (overweight and unfit) and now ourselves (poor, too small, lucky, overrated etc..)!
Clare needed to beat Limerick by hook or by crook and they did. Monkey off the back. Not our problem if limerick are poor, you beat what is in front of you.
I think there is a massive performance in this team and I think they will deliver one of July 9th." I am sitting here Monday with a few regrets because I had a very nice win when I bet on the certainty Clare over Limerick. Is it proper to take advantage of bookies when they make such elementary mistakes? Still I consoled myself by using the winnings to take my family to the Clare Kerry game, contest that Clare could have and should have won,but we treated ourselves to a nice dinner afterwards.So thank you bookies!!!!!
brianboru (Clare) - Posts: 561 - 12/06/2017 18:36:46
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Replying To hurlingexpert: "I never said any of our keepers were top class but i did always believe (and still do) that our keepers (kelly in particular) for the last few years have been more than adequate and well up to this level. Just not up to the top class keepers of the last era ie. davy, donal, og, cummins, fitzhenry etc..
I also never said we had a quality ball winning half forward line. I have always said that conlon is (arguably) the best ball winner in the country. After that i have always believe that we had the tools to successfully compete at puckouts by playing to our strengths ie using shorter more accurate puckouts to find our pacey players in space. I dont think any other team has players with the pace and movement capabilities around the middlw third as us - with galvin, kelly, reidy and podge all in that area.
I was more than happy that with the option of conlon going direct and having the other lads running into space that we wouldnt have any problem retaining our own puckouts.
Now obviously i am in no position to explain what we were trying to do with puckouts against limeric, but it was clearly a terrible tactic and i am very disappointed with the management about this area of our approach. Because it made no sense to me!?
Cork have no more ball winners than we have. They have harnedy and nothing else. They destroyed tipps highly regarded half backline by playing to their strengths and not landing ball down top of them. Movement around the middle and accurate snappy puckouts from nash won that game for them more than anything else. It was actually a masterclass from nash.
Im not sure if fahy is capable of this though which is obviously a worry. Management though have been around the game for long enough to have a solution up their sleeves." Oh yes you did. You said Kelly was one of top keepers. You told me that Tony Kelly was a ball winner and you named others even Honan at one stage. I said exactly what Loughnane said about keepers and ball winners and you fought it every step of the way. Have been saying it for 3 years. As for Clares puck out strategy it hasn't change since 2013. It can't change there are no other options. As some other poster said the dogs in he street know that Clares half forward line can't operate as an orthodox half forward line. As for Lohans comments re injuries could I point out that Shefflin mentioned the absence of both Hegarty Byrnes stating that Byrnes was our only All star nominating last year.
disillusiondfan (Limerick) - Posts: 4279 - 12/06/2017 20:46:40
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Replying To disillusiondfan: "Oh yes you did. You said Kelly was one of top keepers. You told me that Tony Kelly was a ball winner and you named others even Honan at one stage. I said exactly what Loughnane said about keepers and ball winners and you fought it every step of the way. Have been saying it for 3 years. As for Clares puck out strategy it hasn't change since 2013. It can't change there are no other options. As some other poster said the dogs in he street know that Clares half forward line can't operate as an orthodox half forward line. As for Lohans comments re injuries could I point out that Shefflin mentioned the absence of both Hegarty Byrnes stating that Byrnes was our only All star nominating last year." My point is you dont have much of a team if missing two creates such a problem for you. If Clare were missing Kelly and Podge (which they may have well have been) I would have been very confident still.
LohansRedHelmet (Clare) - Posts: 2491 - 13/06/2017 05:22:41
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Peter Duggan was man of Match V Inagh/KIlnamona ay weekend 2.03 Play 0.08 Frees surely Selectors have to look at players in form and play them in County matches he is only 24 never mind this" hasen't done" it lads of his size mainly come good in mid 20s he badly needed to have been given a full league last Spring. If you look at Walter Walsh he hasent been clocking up cricket scores but B Cody knows he is a valuable play maker and can finish too.
My bet for Sunday is Waterford must be dead cocky Kilkenny/Tipperary in qualifiers only one to stop them winning is Derek McGrath with his defensive system. If they win we definately have to have plan B
clooney (Clare) - Posts: 891 - 13/06/2017 11:34:15
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Replying To LohansRedHelmet: "My point is you dont have much of a team if missing two creates such a problem for you. If Clare were missing Kelly and Podge (which they may have well have been) I would have been very confident still." The problem you have ,Lohans Red Helmet is trhe same problem us sideline pundits have in Clare, Tipperary ,Wexford n and Cork.
Our friend DF has been fixing all the a/m county teams for years even while in semi retirement. Have some respect!
You need to spend a week in Kilkee, the Canaries or Ballybunion, away from the distractions of family, work and other commitments or pursuits.
You need to pour over all of DFs posts over the last three years and you will come to the conclusion that he is INFALLIBLE ALL THE THE TIME. Remember w!!at he told you on the Feb 30th ,2013. Any questions?
Come On Ye boys In Green
PatOLogical (Limerick) - Posts: 1360 - 13/06/2017 12:01:13
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Replying To LohansRedHelmet: "My point is you dont have much of a team if missing two creates such a problem for you. If Clare were missing Kelly and Podge (which they may have well have been) I would have been very confident still." If you were missing O Donnell alone would you have win last Sunday week?? I didn't bring it up until someone had a go at my prediction. It sounds like an excuse for sure but I couldn't see Clare beating Limerick when I thought Byrnes and Hegarty were playing. The loss of two players would weaken any team particularly 2 big players
disillusiondfan (Limerick) - Posts: 4279 - 13/06/2017 13:09:58
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Replying To PatOLogical: "The problem you have ,Lohans Red Helmet is trhe same problem us sideline pundits have in Clare, Tipperary ,Wexford n and Cork.
Our friend DF has been fixing all the a/m county teams for years even while in semi retirement. Have some respect!
You need to spend a week in Kilkee, the Canaries or Ballybunion, away from the distractions of family, work and other commitments or pursuits.
You need to pour over all of DFs posts over the last three years and you will come to the conclusion that he is INFALLIBLE ALL THE THE TIME. Remember w!!at he told you on the Feb 30th ,2013. Any questions?
Come On Ye boys In Green" Pat is it possible to be infallible only part of the time? Ha ha
disillusiondfan (Limerick) - Posts: 4279 - 13/06/2017 13:22:21
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Df
1. I NEVER said kelly was a ball winner. The argument from yourself at the time was that he was not capable of "contesting" puckouts. Which i argued against - i also included 1 example of him catching a puckout against limerick - end of.
2. I have never said honan was a ball winner. You have thrown this at me before out of no where. And you are wrong, i never said it - end of.
3. Our puckout strategy has changed. It has come full circle if anything. We went from going long, to going short, to last years tactic of pushing up wing backs for our own puckouts.
4. One point you have never been able to understand is that there are more ways of playing hurling than lumping high ball on top of a half forward line!! That is why i am very disappointed in our management that they didnt have an alternative plan.
5. Im not sure what the definition of "an orthodox half line" is to be honest. But who says a half forward line should be "orthodox"?! Thats a very boring approach to the game if im honest. Trying new systems and breaking away from your beloved rigid old ways is all part of the game.
6. As for what would have happened if we didnt have o'donnell. Then someone else would have came in to replace him. Its not like we would have had to play with 14. More than likely mccarthy going to midfield with reidy going to o'donnells position.
hurlingexpert (Clare) - Posts: 1941 - 13/06/2017 16:42:33
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Replying To disillusiondfan: "Pat is it possible to be infallible only part of the time? Ha ha" David Mcinerny picked up a ham string injury playing for his local club, Tulla over the week-end,and it is doubtful he will have recovered in time to be ready to play in the Munsterr final. This is horrible news. If you lose someone who is recognized as one of the best backs in the country it is bound to have a negative effect. He is the one player I would hate to miss out on. We can only hope he will get better enough to return in time.
brianboru (Clare) - Posts: 561 - 13/06/2017 16:52:25
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Replying To brianboru: "David Mcinerny picked up a ham string injury playing for his local club, Tulla over the week-end,and it is doubtful he will have recovered in time to be ready to play in the Munsterr final. This is horrible news. If you lose someone who is recognized as one of the best backs in the country it is bound to have a negative effect. He is the one player I would hate to miss out on. We can only hope he will get better enough to return in time." Mcinerney a big loss ,, Podge very doubtful as well...
hoppingball (Galway) - Posts: 963 - 13/06/2017 19:57:01
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Replying To hurlingexpert: "Df
1. I NEVER said kelly was a ball winner. The argument from yourself at the time was that he was not capable of "contesting" puckouts. Which i argued against - i also included 1 example of him catching a puckout against limerick - end of.
2. I have never said honan was a ball winner. You have thrown this at me before out of no where. And you are wrong, i never said it - end of.
3. Our puckout strategy has changed. It has come full circle if anything. We went from going long, to going short, to last years tactic of pushing up wing backs for our own puckouts.
4. One point you have never been able to understand is that there are more ways of playing hurling than lumping high ball on top of a half forward line!! That is why i am very disappointed in our management that they didnt have an alternative plan.
5. Im not sure what the definition of "an orthodox half line" is to be honest. But who says a half forward line should be "orthodox"?! Thats a very boring approach to the game if im honest. Trying new systems and breaking away from your beloved rigid old ways is all part of the game.
6. As for what would have happened if we didnt have o'donnell. Then someone else would have came in to replace him. Its not like we would have had to play with 14. More than likely mccarthy going to midfield with reidy going to o'donnells position." I said what Loughnane said and you disagreed with it. I'm not sure about Honan but you certainly made out Kelly could win ball in the air. Clare have gone short on puck outs since 2013. Clares management cannot come up with a plan B because you dont have the players for a plan B. It's all in black and white " expert". You couldn't see what was happening even when it was pointed out to you .
disillusiondfan (Limerick) - Posts: 4279 - 13/06/2017 21:38:22
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What i had to say about kelly previously i clearly outlined above, i dont know why i have to continuously tell you.
Clare have predominatelty had short puckouts since '13 - yes, because we have had a sweeper all that time. But as i said and as everyone knows, last year davy tried a different tactic ie pushing up the wing backs. That WAS a change, i cannot make it any clearer.
You are wrong in saying that we havent got the players for plan b. The point is that we havent got the players for a plan a approach ie hitting long puckouts on a half forward line.
Anything else other than that is a different idea - ie a plan b.
Cork showed us how to use puckouts against - probably the best half backline in the country under a high ball. They dont have anymore ball winners than we have. That is the fact of the matter. That is why im disappointed that our management didnt have a similarly effective strategy in place.
I never actually said the 3 points loughnanne made were wrong. Just that there is obviously better methods of playing the game to our advantage than what we displayed against limerick.
Im sorry but i really hope you can understand! Im not saying you are completely wrong in the general points you are making. But you have to try to understand that there is more than one way of playing a game of hurling and isnt that the beauty of it?!
hurlingexpert (Clare) - Posts: 1941 - 13/06/2017 22:13:04
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Old news now but haven't been on since so just a quick one to say well done last Sunday week. Beat us easily enough and bar the odd patch here or there dominated the whole game.
Hopefully ye go on to win the final now and go the direct route to Croker. One way or another I think ye will be there in August. Us - probably not!
mike03 (Limerick) - Posts: 2000 - 14/06/2017 20:09:30
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Replying To mike03: "Old news now but haven't been on since so just a quick one to say well done last Sunday week. Beat us easily enough and bar the odd patch here or there dominated the whole game.
Hopefully ye go on to win the final now and go the direct route to Croker. One way or another I think ye will be there in August. Us - probably not!" Good on ya Mike. Cheers.
LohansRedHelmet (Clare) - Posts: 2491 - 15/06/2017 03:07:07
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