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Connelly/Holmes

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Replying To clondalkindub: "Shaggy let's say them goals didn't go in , do you honestly believe Mayo beat us by 6 points? If you cut a team open twice one as simple as a 50 yard free kick from the hands then you can't say your unlucky that's just terrible defending, Mayo for me were the better team the first day but they were the team 3 points down in injury time and to say we got all the rub of the green is just blinkered for one team. Anyway I always say it one of the biggest problems on Gaa teams are the subs there the players always giving out and trying to bring the whole thing down." The own goals were unfortunate but Dublin made the chances...we didn't. It looks like a minorotybif Mayo players want to blame everyone but themselves and indeed some Mayo fans. Until we look within and look to rectify our mistakes we don't win Sam. We have a fine crop of players coming through and most of our senior players are dedicated and dead on but the bad eggs need to be shown the bench or the door in my view. yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11232 - 18/12/2016 16:01:48 1940814 Link
Replying To Greengrass: "Holmes and Connolly were shafted . The players did not have the decency or the courage to provide the management with a detailed critique of their management. The management consequently were in no position to publicly defend themselves . The players actions were hugely disrespectful of two great servants of Mayo football. That was then compounded by a letter to the Mayo county board that can only be described as staggering. It was a series of demands accompanied by a deadline for the county board to accede to the demands that was only four days on from the date of the delivery of the letter to county board officials. Holmes and Connelly are absolutely justified in giving their side of the story . They have every right to defend themselves . That said Mayo were a better outfit this year. Tony McEntee's influence can be seen. At the risk of offending my Dublin friends there is no doubt that Dublin were very lucky to get a result the first day. Jim Gavin himself said that. Whilst the highly debatable sending off of Keegan had a huge impact on the second game the crucial and deciding factor was the impact that Dublin's bench had on the game. Every sub made a big contribution. Dublin may enjoy this one. The gap between Mayo and Dublin is closing, The Kingdom are assembling new troops and every year it gets tougher. In summary last years events, the actions of the Mayo panel and the revelations of Holmes and Connelly reflect very, very poorly on the 2015 Mayo panel of players with a certain few of that panel highlighted for all to see." I disagree that mayo were a better team this year they were beaten in connaught and got the look of the draw in the qualifiers they were very lucky against Fermanagh last year they came very close in the replay as I mentioned previously they only led the All-Ireland Final this year once for about 2mins that's over approx 160mins of football. Dublin were extremely poor in the first game and we're still 3pts up in the 70th min yet mayo took all the plaudits after the first game for how well they played. jacktheDub (Dublin) - Posts: 944 - 18/12/2016 16:15:16 1940816 Link
Some posters call this Dublin team the best of all time but then say Mayo got lucky to reach the final and then Dublin played poorly over 2 games but still won. Talk about going over old ground here. So let me say it one last time. Mayo set up defensively very well and kept a superb Dublin forward line quiet for long periods in both games. Dublin had a game changer on the bench for the replay who got them over the line. Mayo in previous years would not have been able to keep Dublin that quiet on the scoreboard. Those things don't happen by accident .Enjoy the rest of the thread. Keep repeating what has been covered on other threads post final a couple of months ago. Zzz TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 7902 - 18/12/2016 16:58:19 1940824 Link
Replying To jacktheDub: "I disagree that mayo were a better team this year they were beaten in connaught and got the look of the draw in the qualifiers they were very lucky against Fermanagh last year they came very close in the replay as I mentioned previously they only led the All-Ireland Final this year once for about 2mins that's over approx 160mins of football. Dublin were extremely poor in the first game and we're still 3pts up in the 70th min yet mayo took all the plaudits after the first game for how well they played." Two very fortunate own goals kept Dublin in the first game . Mayo over the seventy minutes were the superior team . Defensively they were a better team this year than they were last year. It took time for the new management team to get their ideas across but the team improved as the year went on. With the experience of this year and some fresh faces from the under 21 team it looks like interesting times ahead for Mayo . That by the way doesn't excuse the shameful treatment of Pat Holmes and Noel Connelly by the Mayo players . Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 18/12/2016 17:08:35 1940825 Link
Replying To rossy15: "Ye might not have been better last year but ye were also no better this year . Just stayed in division 1 beaten by galway n connacht and apart from the tyrone gMe didn't exactly play well n the qualifiers . Just like last year when the opportunity presented itself to beat the dubs in the first game this year (second game last year ) the players were not up for it I don't see mayo getting as easy a route to the All Ireland in 2017 tbh" Our defence in 2016 was miles better than in 2015 and this was a big fault for us. Forget the league position, we stayed in Division 1. We didn't peak early in the summer as in previous summers. In 2015 we were absolutely blessed to get a replay in the semi final. Our poor defence was shown for what it was in the last quarter in the replay and no better team than the Dubs to take advantage. I take your points but can't agree that we weren't a better team in 2016 than in 2015. But yes it's no guarantee of success in 2017. They need to keep looking at faults and fixing them and improving. The only team that usually beats Mayo is Mayo. GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7346 - 18/12/2016 17:14:01 1940826 Link
Replying To yew_tree: "The own goals were unfortunate but Dublin made the chances...we didn't. It looks like a minorotybif Mayo players want to blame everyone but themselves and indeed some Mayo fans. Until we look within and look to rectify our mistakes we don't win Sam. We have a fine crop of players coming through and most of our senior players are dedicated and dead on but the bad eggs need to be shown the bench or the door in my view." An honest assessment yewtree. Doubt if Rochford is likely to stop oshea though.It would take a strong character to grab hold of the situation and make the noisy lads toe the line.Sounds like there are a small number that are having a disproportionate say. Dubh_linn (Dublin) - Posts: 2312 - 18/12/2016 17:17:04 1940827 Link
The Flaker even the great Kerry teams had bad days when on the day the opposition were as good if not better it doesn't mean they weren't great teams. clondalkindub (Dublin) - Posts: 9926 - 18/12/2016 17:28:46 1940829 Link
Airing dirty laundry in public is usually a bad thing but in Mayo it is the only way, the public including Mayo supporters were never told what happened to the 2006 management and why they left or sacked, the same with the 2015 management, clubs refuse to act on behalf of their members and never ask the hard questions at county board meetings or tell us the public what's going on, we have no choice but ask on public media such as these forums or local radio, can these club officers be voted out of office? Answer No, they have a lobby group of their own within clubs so they will either out vote others or ignore a nomination riverboys (Mayo) - Posts: 1389 - 18/12/2016 20:19:25 1940852 Link
Replying To clondalkindub: "The Flaker even the great Kerry teams had bad days when on the day the opposition were as good if not better it doesn't mean they weren't great teams." I didn't say there weren't a great team, they are. This is also an excellent Mayo team who progressed and just fell short. TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 7902 - 18/12/2016 21:26:11 1940867 Link
As an outside observer, I was not at all impressed by the Connolly/Holmes partnership in 2015. It seemed to me at the time that something was amiss...their media interviews after games always left me wondering about them. This was throughout the 2015 championship and before there was any move to get rid of them. If some of the things they say in the article are the unvarnished truth -- I mean in terms of standing firm against certain players who wanted to have a say in team selections -- they may have been better managers than I imagined. But then we only have their side of the story here and we dont know if theres an element of kickback here. This year I did have a sense that perhaps the O'Shea brothers were wielding too much influence (for me, Seamus O'Shea should have been taken off midway through the second half of the first Dublin match and the fact that he was left on despite having faded out of the game was one of the reasons why they did not win it). I think Rochford has the potential to be a better manager than those he replaced but he is entering 2017 with a somewhat damaged reputation and he will only be able to fully restore it by asserting himself and distancing himself from the players and not allowing certain players have too much say. I think he will achieve this by the way. PoolSturgeon (Galway) - Posts: 1903 - 18/12/2016 22:25:17 1940874 Link
Quick questions folks, did the Mayo players send the letter to the county board in 2015 without consulting Holmes or Connelly? Killarney.87 (Tipperary) - Posts: 2513 - 18/12/2016 23:56:43 1940887 Link
Ah no doubt this is an excellent Mayo team. Let's be honest posters this was payback from Connelly/Holmes they wanted to stir it up and get revenge. clondalkindub (Dublin) - Posts: 9926 - 19/12/2016 00:23:37 1940888 Link
Replying To MesAmis: "How about two own goals would you not describe that as incredibly unlucky? shaggylegend (Monaghan) - Posts:1490 - 18/12/2016 12:10:55 1940781 Bryan Fenton first and Dean Rock getting in behind the Mayo defence was hardly down to bad luck on Mayo's part. How the goals actually went in, particularly the first, was unlucky but Dublin cutting Mayo wide open twice wasn't bad luck for Mayo." Also, you could argue that Mayo had plenty of luck of their own in the qualifiers. Two home draws plus a relatively straight-forward clash with Westmeath in Croke Park. Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9136 - 19/12/2016 09:44:12 1940903 Link
Replying To Lockjaw: " Replying To MesAmis: "How about two own goals would you not describe that as incredibly unlucky? shaggylegend (Monaghan) - Posts:1490 - 18/12/2016 12:10:55 1940781 Bryan Fenton first and Dean Rock getting in behind the Mayo defence was hardly down to bad luck on Mayo's part. How the goals actually went in, particularly the first, was unlucky but Dublin cutting Mayo wide open twice wasn't bad luck for Mayo." Also, you could argue that Mayo had plenty of luck of their own in the qualifiers. Two home draws plus a relatively straight-forward clash with Westmeath in Croke Park." Luck had feck all to do with it. Bad defending by us let them close to goal to get shots off that lead to two own goals. The best team won the replay. We took the ball up towards the Hill in the second half, indecision or bad shooting options cost us. Who knows what would have happened if we were more decisive when we had a sight of the posts ? The Dubs shooting into the Canal End rarely took the wrong options. If shooting option 1 wasn't on they'd recycle ball and try option 2 and if that wasn't on they'd patiently wait for another option until a score came. Kilkenny was the most under-rated player in the finals because he didn't play the ball 'forward' as much as 2015. He rarely gave away the ball and it's better to move the ball sideways or backwards than try taking the wrong shot on. Costello was brilliant when he came on. Something we can learn from. In 27 years we've lost 8 finals. Been good enough to reach them but not enough to win one. I'm hopeful that Rochford and McEntee can improve this team. I'm certain they don't blame bad luck, the weather, referees, media reports, injuries, a priest at a funeral more than 65 years ago, etc on our lack of success but will try to improve on what can be improved by the squad themselves. It's time supporters did the same. GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7346 - 19/12/2016 10:22:34 1940908 Link
Wow what a mess Mayo are in.. From the outside i have symphathy for the two lads, i always liked both and i felt the way they were treated was totally wrong. I agree they should be alowed defend themselves, why not? Their character was shot at and no reasons given. The same happened here in Galway hurling and Donoghue gave the panel a last chance last year. He has got rid of a lot of them now for the new year including a few that made the heave against Cunningham and i think it will be hugely beneficial for Galway, Roachford needs to stand up against a few and make changes. He has an All Ireland winning 21 team at his disposal.. Belclare1 (Galway) - Posts: 1626 - 19/12/2016 10:42:47 1940913 Link
Mayo have form for this. Look at the disgraceful way Micky Moran was treated. Seems to me that as long as player power and ego rule. They will win nada. Shame really because they are everyone's favourite under dog. And with their record, underdog they are and will continue to be. Glensboy (Antrim) - Posts: 290 - 19/12/2016 10:51:18 1940915 Link
This is a proper s*show. No one comes out of it well. Clearly deep problems on all sides that will be extremely hard to resolve, but the impression I get is that the major one is certain players notions'. I'm not sure Kerry or Dublin players have the same high opinion of themselves as players/a group. Breffni40 (Cavan)** - Posts: 12120 - 19/12/2016 11:06:43 1940918 Link
Replying To GreenandRed: "Our defence in 2016 was miles better than in 2015 and this was a big fault for us. Forget the league position, we stayed in Division 1. We didn't peak early in the summer as in previous summers. In 2015 we were absolutely blessed to get a replay in the semi final. Our poor defence was shown for what it was in the last quarter in the replay and no better team than the Dubs to take advantage. I take your points but can't agree that we weren't a better team in 2016 than in 2015. But yes it's no guarantee of success in 2017. They need to keep looking at faults and fixing them and improving. The only team that usually beats Mayo is Mayo." Wouldn't agree that defence was miles better in 2016 With the concession of sloppy goals against galway and dublin ultimately costing mayo both the connacht and all ireland championships in 2016 rossy15 (Roscommon) - Posts: 617 - 19/12/2016 11:07:28 1940919 Link
Jim McGuinness cut Kevin Cassidy loose for a perceived breach of trust and was so ruthless about it everyone in Donegal knew where they stood. You can argue all day about whether what Jim did was right by Kevin, whether Cass deserved better after his service to Donegal football etc., but the fact of the matter is Jim laid out the rules, felt that trust was breached within the group and so there had to be consequences. Would any Mayo manager over the past 20 years have had that streak in them, to do that for the good of the group? I like Rochford so I hope it works out for him. I don't really like the airing of all this in public, but I don't see how H/C come out of this as bad guys - a bit bitter of course but who wouldn't be? Even without this interview I didn't have a great opinion of the Mayo panel considering how they went about getting rid of management. JoeSoap (Donegal) - Posts: 1432 - 19/12/2016 11:08:45 1940920 Link
Replying To clondalkindub: "Ah no doubt this is an excellent Mayo team. Let's be honest posters this was payback from Connelly/Holmes they wanted to stir it up and get revenge." What response would you have felt acceptable from them ,??? their reputations were dragged through the mud , the response is timely as not affecting a championship , I have no doubt if they had wanted revenge they could have timed it far better if that was their aim . The piece is well written , and from the majority of Mayo posters they dont seem to doubt its sincerity , that tells a story in itself. Damothedub (Dublin) - Posts: 5193 - 19/12/2016 11:09:38 1940921 Link