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The GAA were always going to move a step from current structures. The All-Ireland series was made up of 4 provincial winners. It expanded to 8 teams with the addition of 4 qualifiers. The GAA are now suggesting replacing the quarter-finals with a group stage. Many good formats have been suggested. There has to be realism. If the group stage is successful the GAA can look at expanding the number of teams involved. If not successful, they can revert back to quarter-finals or some other suggestion.
I've spoken with people from Division 4 counties who reckon they should have gone with the second tier championship that was suggested. They were still going to be involved in the provincial championships. There would be an incentive for a more competitive Division 4. If teams are in Division 4 and competing to win the second tier championship, they are unlikely to be challenging for provincial honours. Aspiring to win Division 4 or the second tier competition should have boosted competitiveness.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7871 - 21/10/2016 18:52:27
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Replying To s goldrick: "omg. that's a terrible thought. Imagine the chaos that would ensue. I don't understand this preoccupation with trying to bring up "weaker counties" to a higher level.
there are only a very few "weaker" counties. I.e. ones that have never progressed beyond div 3 or 4 in the league. London,Leitrim,Carlow,Waterford. I mean that's probably it. All the rest have periodically had good spells. Surely the league is the place to make progress. No other sport seems as obsessed with bringing everyone up to the same level. There are always stronger and weaker teams, what's the problem. Even London ave made it to Croke park recently and Leitrim won connacht in 95. however you shouldn't judge teams on a knockout competition . look at Fermanagh, they have NEVEr won Ulster yet they are always a pretty decent team and at the moment are a very good div 2 team." I have suggested something like this before - each county puts 9 of its own players on the field, along with 6 drafted.
I have to say, however, the panel could not train as one.
omahant (USA) - Posts: 2614 - 21/10/2016 23:23:51
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Replying To legendzxix: "The GAA were always going to move a step from current structures. The All-Ireland series was made up of 4 provincial winners. It expanded to 8 teams with the addition of 4 qualifiers. The GAA are now suggesting replacing the quarter-finals with a group stage. Many good formats have been suggested. There has to be realism. If the group stage is successful the GAA can look at expanding the number of teams involved. If not successful, they can revert back to quarter-finals or some other suggestion.
I've spoken with people from Division 4 counties who reckon they should have gone with the second tier championship that was suggested. They were still going to be involved in the provincial championships. There would be an incentive for a more competitive Division 4. If teams are in Division 4 and competing to win the second tier championship, they are unlikely to be challenging for provincial honours. Aspiring to win Division 4 or the second tier competition should have boosted competitiveness." If the leagues were started later going straight into the provincial series they'd be much better competitions. If the provincial series were played over 7 weeks, I think they'd be more exciting, with better games every weekend.
Alternatively keeping the National league as is. A B championship could be incorporated and played before the provincial championships as a preparation competition. Plug the gap between league and championship. The weaker counties don't need time at the start of the season for club championship as they'll be out sooner. The competition might be able to attract some profile if it's got no other football to compete with.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4236 - 22/10/2016 10:44:35
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If the leagues were started later going straight into the provincial series they'd be much better competitions. If the provincial series were played over 7 weeks, I think they'd be more exciting, with better games every weekend.
Alternatively keeping the National league as is. A B championship could be incorporated and played before the provincial championships as a preparation competition. Plug the gap between league and championship. The weaker counties don't need time at the start of the season for club championship as they'll be out sooner. The competition might be able to attract some profile if it's got no other football to compete with.
Whammo86 (Antrim)
There has to be a gap between the league and championship for clubs games. All counties should be able to fit in two rounds of club championships in that time.
The GAA are suggesting running the provincial series over a shorter timescale.
Any preparation second tier championship before the provincial championships is a waste of time. The league already offers championship preparation time.
The second tier championship mooted by the GAA offered the opportunity for more competitive Divisions 3 and 4. Counties still had access to provincial championships. The counties didn't want it. It has to be accepted and we move on.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7871 - 22/10/2016 12:34:29
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There has to be a gap between the league and championship for clubs games. All counties should be able to fit in two rounds of club championships in that time.
I don't agree. The season could also be finished earlier by at least 4 weeks, allowing for those 2 rounds. Playing in a county that plays 2 rounds in April, I hate it.
The GAA are suggesting running the provincial series over a shorter timescale.
Any preparation second tier championship before the provincial championships is a waste of time. The league already offers championship preparation time.
It wouldn't be a waste of time. Big difference between playing a league in February/March and playing in a knockout competition in April/May.
The second tier championship mooted by the GAA offered the opportunity for more competitive Divisions 3 and 4. Counties still had access to provincial championships. The counties didn't want it. It has to be accepted and we move on.
Yes we should move on. I'm suggesting a potential alternative.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4236 - 22/10/2016 13:45:42
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Yes we should move on. I'm suggesting a potential alternative.
Whammo86 (Antrim)
Did you read the document released by the GAA during the week?
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7871 - 22/10/2016 18:14:41
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Replying To legendzxix: "Yes we should move on. I'm suggesting a potential alternative.
Whammo86 (Antrim)
Did you read the document released by the GAA during the week?" There's a big difference between adding an extra competition at the start of the championship and removing teams from the qualifiers.
It's to plug the gap between the end of the league and start of championship.
Alternatively play division 3 and 4 later, but keep 1 and 2 at the current rotation.
It's ludicrous that teams like Carlow, Antrim, Leitrim even Sligo, Wexford, Down are getting 2 or 3 games in a 3 month period, that's balls. It's why people are turning away from Inter county football in their droves.
The current GAA calendar is failing.
The GAA's proposal's are not addressing the real issues.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4236 - 22/10/2016 19:14:10
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Alternatively play division 3 and 4 later, but keep 1 and 2 at the current rotation.
It's ludicrous that teams like Carlow, Antrim, Leitrim even Sligo, Wexford, Down are getting 2 or 3 games in a 3 month period
Whammo86 (Antrim)
These counties should bring that motion to congress if they feel it's better for them.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7871 - 22/10/2016 19:54:25
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Replying To legendzxix: "Yes we should move on. I'm suggesting a potential alternative.
Whammo86 (Antrim)
Did you read the document released by the GAA during the week?" Actually, I hadn't realised that they'd changed the proposed calendar, compared to what had been sent out in August.
It's actually not a bad first start at change, with the provincial championships getting significantly shortened.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4236 - 23/10/2016 09:18:15
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Replying To legendzxix: "Yes we should move on. I'm suggesting a potential alternative.
Whammo86 (Antrim)
Did you read the document released by the GAA during the week?" I read it in entirety - didn't get much out of it - the few modest though may be worthwhile - tighter schddule; divs 3 & 4 host divs 1 & 2 teams. I am biased against tounament round robins - I'd even bring hhe back door to the World Cup finals.
omahant (USA) - Posts: 2614 - 23/10/2016 16:07:34
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It's actually not a bad first start at change, with the provincial championships getting significantly shortened.
Whammo86 (Antrim)
Exactly. It's a good start. Provincial timescale being shortened and finals being brought forward to August.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7871 - 23/10/2016 19:19:32
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A round robin system instead of the quarter finals then semis, do they GAA think we are made of money or that we can waste 5 weekends during the summer at matches instead of the usual 3, hard enough to gather money for the current system which has the quarter, semi and final spread over 7 weeks, this new system would have you at games every week or 2, it's alright for co board personal who get into games for free but for those who work weekends, parents, farmers or those looking after the elderly it will be impossible to attend every game especially if you have a season ticket which requires attendance records, it is set up so every year we will have a Dublin v Kerry final, this won't do anything for the weaker counties, do we believe that Tipp would have made the semis in the new plan or Fermanagh back in the mid 2000s, not a chance, the essence of the GAA or in any sport is 'on any given day anything is possible' a brilliant team can have an off day and a weaker team could topple them but in a round robin system the stronger team will always get through even after a slip up
riverboys (Mayo) - Posts: 1389 - 23/10/2016 20:41:59
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Replying To riverboys: "A round robin system instead of the quarter finals then semis, do they GAA think we are made of money or that we can waste 5 weekends during the summer at matches instead of the usual 3, hard enough to gather money for the current system which has the quarter, semi and final spread over 7 weeks, this new system would have you at games every week or 2, it's alright for co board personal who get into games for free but for those who work weekends, parents, farmers or those looking after the elderly it will be impossible to attend every game especially if you have a season ticket which requires attendance records, it is set up so every year we will have a Dublin v Kerry final, this won't do anything for the weaker counties, do we believe that Tipp would have made the semis in the new plan or Fermanagh back in the mid 2000s, not a chance, the essence of the GAA or in any sport is 'on any given day anything is possible' a brilliant team can have an off day and a weaker team could topple them but in a round robin system the stronger team will always get through even after a slip up" The GAA speaks:
'STRONGEST TEAMS WON'T GET CAUGHT OUT'
The All-Ireland championship should be structured so that the best teams in a particular year, irrespective of whether they are regarded as 'strong' or 'weak', contest the closing stages.
The strongest teams mean the best teams, which will vary from year to year, and these are the teams that should contest the final stages of the championship. It is a strange logic that wishes that the weaker teams have easier access to the final stages and that it is somehow a measure of the value of the championship that this should happen. Competition in sport is about determining the best performer(s); the GAA's primary competition has to be about merit and earned success.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7871 - 23/10/2016 22:37:42
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I have said before on here that the moving from knockout to round robin then back to knock out feels clumsy...BUT...this is a step in the right direction.
It's GAA after all, progress can feel glacial, so let's run with this as a route to something better in the future.
Oh, and on this matter I'm in broad agreement with Legend (these occasions do occur now and again).
Knoxboya (Monaghan) - Posts: 358 - 24/10/2016 20:54:49
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The first page of this thread is hilarious. Did many of you read the proposal in full?
Sponger talks about clubs having to wait on the counties to exit the championship before playing multiple games in a week. If these proposals were in place in 2016 then Wicklow would enter the championship on 14 May and ext it on 18 June. A full five weeks. Would the clubs manage to squeeze their schedule in?
Whammo86 says it'll be harder to schedule club games? How do you make that out? You say there are huge breaks between games. Again, how do you come up with this. Read the document.
Others talk about doing away with the provincials. The GPA reported in summer 2015 that there was no appetite among its member to get rid of the provincials or for a second-tier championship. Surely their opinions are more valid than most. Again,it's all in the document if people took the time to read it in full.
Skelling (USA) - Posts: 289 - 26/10/2016 15:40:53
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Replying To Skelling: "The first page of this thread is hilarious. Did many of you read the proposal in full?
Sponger talks about clubs having to wait on the counties to exit the championship before playing multiple games in a week. If these proposals were in place in 2016 then Wicklow would enter the championship on 14 May and ext it on 18 June. A full five weeks. Would the clubs manage to squeeze their schedule in?
Whammo86 says it'll be harder to schedule club games? How do you make that out? You say there are huge breaks between games. Again, how do you come up with this. Read the document.
Others talk about doing away with the provincials. The GPA reported in summer 2015 that there was no appetite among its member to get rid of the provincials or for a second-tier championship. Surely their opinions are more valid than most. Again,it's all in the document if people took the time to read it in full." I've admitted I got it wrong.
I didn't read the proposed new calendar part and didn't realise how much they were shortening the season.
I've subsequently said the proposal looks like a decent first start.
Maybe keep up to date before you start calling people out on things they've already corrected.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4236 - 26/10/2016 16:11:38
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Replying To Whammo86: "I've admitted I got it wrong.
I didn't read the proposed new calendar part and didn't realise how much they were shortening the season.
I've subsequently said the proposal looks like a decent first start.
Maybe keep up to date before you start calling people out on things they've already corrected." I apologise unconditionally.
Skelling (USA) - Posts: 289 - 26/10/2016 16:36:45
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Replying To Whammo86: "I've admitted I got it wrong.
I didn't read the proposed new calendar part and didn't realise how much they were shortening the season.
I've subsequently said the proposal looks like a decent first start.
Maybe keep up to date before you start calling people out on things they've already corrected." I apologise unconditionally.
Skelling (USA) - Posts: 289 - 26/10/2016 16:43:17
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The GPA reported in summer 2015 that there was no appetite among its member to get rid of the provincials or for a second-tier championship. Surely their opinions are more valid than most. Again,it's all in the document if people took the time to read it in full.
Skelling (USA)
Exactly, it's all there for everyone to read.
I have said before on here that the moving from knockout to round robin then back to knock out feels clumsy...BUT...this is a step in the right direction.
Knoxboya (Monaghan)
The Champions League and Europa League have 4 rounds of qualifiers before a group stage followed by more knockout. The GAA Football Championship will follow a similar pattern if agreed.
If the 2 groups of 4 come in, the next step years down the line might be expanding to 4 groups of 4. The conundrum for the GAA in such a scenario will be provincial champions and runners-up entering the All-Ireland series at the same stage. There has to be a clear incentive for winning the provincial title.
An option there will be granting provincial champions all 3 games at home with the other 3 teams in their group having 1 home game each. The current suggestion of the GAA is the only show in town.
It's possible the attitude towards the second championship might change in the future. If the current change suggested turns out to be a step in the direction of 4 groups of 4, those failing to qualify might reevaluate the merits of a second championship that offers the winner a guaranteed place in the group stage of the following year.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7871 - 26/10/2016 16:43:21
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Replying To Skelling: "I apologise unconditionally." No stress
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4236 - 26/10/2016 17:10:06
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