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Dublin footballers 2011-2016 Where do they rank?

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Replying To cavanman47:  "1. League is not an accurate gauge as many teams don't take it seriously
2. Tyrone had to a colossal rival in Ulster in Armagh, Dublin have no opposition in Leinster
3. How strong Kerry are is always a good marker of success and they were much much stronger through the 00s than they are now.

Given the difference in the standard of football (it absolutely peaked in 2005 and hasn't hit that level since), I'd have Tyrone and Kerry ahead of the current Dublin team."
I've watched re runs of Kerry v Tyrone in 2005 many times and it was a great match. As was the Tyrone v Armagh semi.

But saying the game peaked in 2005..is that just nostalgia? Bit like older men saying the game peaked in the 70s. Surely the present Dublin team have moved the game on another step. Even given the advances in sport science. They look fitter again. Tyrone of 2005 only trained collectively twice a week plus their own programmes. I think Dublin are as skillful and faster and stronger again.

I just think gaa has progressed in intensity in the last 10 years. Much the same way as looking at the conditioning of rugby players now compared to 10 years ago.

Laois76 (Laois) - Posts: 1270 - 11/10/2016 14:51:12    1924943

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Replying To clondalkindub:  "HUrlingWarrior Mayo have been the only ones to challenge us this decade? Sorry remind me when we hammered Kerry or Donegal in championship football this decade?"
Got to agree with you on this one.

Every year at least one of Mayo, Donegal or Kerry have been a top team during Dublin's successful spell.

My opinion would be those teams haven't won more because Dublin are so good rather than that they are no quality teams.

Kerry 04-09 has to be considered higher than Tyrone, they got to 6 finals in a row winning 4. Tyrone only won 3 and didn't make any other finals. Kerry weren't getting handy draws back then either with a top Cork team doing battle in Munster.

Down 91-94 weren't great the years they didn't bring home Sam. Cork and Meath of the last 80s early 90s should be rated higher than them

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4226 - 11/10/2016 14:53:00    1924944

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Replying To alano12:  "1. Kerry/Tyrone 00s
2. Kerry 70s-80s
3. Dublin 2011-2016
4. Dublin 1974-79
5. Down 1991-1994
6. Meath 1987-1991
7. Armagh 00s (odd choice but feel if not for two incredible teams plus a lsuprise loss in 2004 probably would have won more)
8. Galway 1998-2001
9. Meath 96-2001"
One reason i wouldn't put Tyrone of the 00s at the top was the poor performaces after their all-ireland wins.

In 2004 they lost to Mayo, now obviously the team was shaken by Cormac McAnallen's untimely passing that March.

In 2006 they lost to Laois, Tyrone had a lot of injuries, most notably Brian McGuigan had eye problems at the time. Still We (Laois) were a good team at the time but hardly world beaters.

In 2007 after winning Ulster Tyrone went out meekly enough to Meath in the all ireland quarter final. Meath were average at the time. Cork easily accounted for them in the semi.

In 2009 time was catching up on Tyrone and a strong Cork ran them ragged in that year's all ireland semi.

I feel Dublin 2011-16 have been more consistent. The teams that beat them in 2012 and 2014, Mayo and Donegal, were far better than Laois and Meath in 2006-07.

Laois76 (Laois) - Posts: 1270 - 11/10/2016 15:06:51    1924953

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Replying To Laois76:  "One reason i wouldn't put Tyrone of the 00s at the top was the poor performaces after their all-ireland wins.

In 2004 they lost to Mayo, now obviously the team was shaken by Cormac McAnallen's untimely passing that March.

In 2006 they lost to Laois, Tyrone had a lot of injuries, most notably Brian McGuigan had eye problems at the time. Still We (Laois) were a good team at the time but hardly world beaters.

In 2007 after winning Ulster Tyrone went out meekly enough to Meath in the all ireland quarter final. Meath were average at the time. Cork easily accounted for them in the semi.

In 2009 time was catching up on Tyrone and a strong Cork ran them ragged in that year's all ireland semi.

I feel Dublin 2011-16 have been more consistent. The teams that beat them in 2012 and 2014, Mayo and Donegal, were far better than Laois and Meath in 2006-07."
I appreciate you including it but you sort of try your best to limit the impact the death of Cormac had on that team , who's to say we don't win alot more with Cormac. The man wasn't just the newly appointed captain of Tyrone, he was the bonefide no questions asked captain of that team of players from Minor onwards. That's before you even get into the idea of losing a friend and colleague forever.

We lacked a proper full back until 2008 when Justin McMahon really came through, Cormac was an all star full back.

Tyrone clearly could produce a performance when they had to have one, maybe the luls and inconsistency don't happen if Cormac doesn't die.

Does losing a brother affect you 5 years after their death? I think you'd say it does, I think you'd have to admit those men are more than likely still affected by it

Seansy48 (Tyrone) - Posts: 237 - 11/10/2016 15:34:16    1924969

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Replying To Laois76:  "I've watched re runs of Kerry v Tyrone in 2005 many times and it was a great match. As was the Tyrone v Armagh semi.

But saying the game peaked in 2005..is that just nostalgia? Bit like older men saying the game peaked in the 70s. Surely the present Dublin team have moved the game on another step. Even given the advances in sport science. They look fitter again. Tyrone of 2005 only trained collectively twice a week plus their own programmes. I think Dublin are as skillful and faster and stronger again.

I just think gaa has progressed in intensity in the last 10 years. Much the same way as looking at the conditioning of rugby players now compared to 10 years ago."
No I don't think it's nostalgia. Have watched the games a few times too. You probably couldn't undermine your own argument any further by using the word intensity. The level of intensity Tyrone and Armagh brought IMO hasn't been matched since.

If we take that Armagh Tyrone game and compare to Dublin Mayo of this year, just compare the number of unforced errors (yes, I know a huge amount of errors were forced but there were many more unforced ones in this year's final - or semi final v Kerry - than that Tyrone Armagh game, and the 2 Ulster finals the same year).

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5012 - 11/10/2016 15:59:24    1924978

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What's funny is everyone going for there own County , Tyrone won 3 all Ireland's and no leagues in the 00's we've already won 4 Sam's and 4 leagues in a row. It was a great Tyrone team but number 1 ? Come on not even a back to back ffs.

clondalkindub (Dublin) - Posts: 9926 - 11/10/2016 16:06:46    1924982

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Replying To clondalkindub:  "What's funny is everyone going for there own County , Tyrone won 3 all Ireland's and no leagues in the 00's we've already won 4 Sam's and 4 leagues in a row. It was a great Tyrone team but number 1 ? Come on not even a back to back ffs."
You've just used really bad reasons to undermine the 2000s teams.

Happy enough to say 2000s Tyrone aren't number 1 and yet you're convinced that this Dublin team is the best ever because they have 4 which is 1 more than the Tyrone team and one less than the Kerry team, in what I think is a less competitive era. Sure teams have showed up from time to time but Dublin's biggest rival is a team that hasn't beat them in an important match. The other team needs to win for it to be competitive.

On top of that Tyrone won the national league in 2002 and 2003

Seansy48 (Tyrone) - Posts: 237 - 11/10/2016 16:46:31    1924996

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Where did I once say Dublin where the best team ever on this thread?

clondalkindub (Dublin) - Posts: 9926 - 11/10/2016 17:00:10    1925000

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Listen man it was a great Tyrone team but no way are they the greatest team ever that's all I'm saying.

clondalkindub (Dublin) - Posts: 9926 - 11/10/2016 17:03:31    1925003

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Replying To Seansy48:  "I appreciate you including it but you sort of try your best to limit the impact the death of Cormac had on that team , who's to say we don't win alot more with Cormac. The man wasn't just the newly appointed captain of Tyrone, he was the bonefide no questions asked captain of that team of players from Minor onwards. That's before you even get into the idea of losing a friend and colleague forever.

We lacked a proper full back until 2008 when Justin McMahon really came through, Cormac was an all star full back.

Tyrone clearly could produce a performance when they had to have one, maybe the luls and inconsistency don't happen if Cormac doesn't die.

Does losing a brother affect you 5 years after their death? I think you'd say it does, I think you'd have to admit those men are more than likely still affected by it"
A tragedy like that is hard to quantify. He was a great leader. We remember him well in Laois from the 1997/98 finals. He gave a great speech after the 1998 minor win. Very gracious to us and you'd mark him down as a remarkable young man even at that age.

Laois76 (Laois) - Posts: 1270 - 11/10/2016 17:04:24    1925004

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Replying To cavanman47:  "No I don't think it's nostalgia. Have watched the games a few times too. You probably couldn't undermine your own argument any further by using the word intensity. The level of intensity Tyrone and Armagh brought IMO hasn't been matched since.

If we take that Armagh Tyrone game and compare to Dublin Mayo of this year, just compare the number of unforced errors (yes, I know a huge amount of errors were forced but there were many more unforced ones in this year's final - or semi final v Kerry - than that Tyrone Armagh game, and the 2 Ulster finals the same year)."
I don't have that 2005 on tape or dvd, maybe it's on youtube. I'll try and watch it again. I remember my brother was in Mexico for that final. He came home jet lagged a week later and i was still buzzing after the 2005 final and dragged the poor chap to watch a re run with me!

I suppose i'm basing my argument on the progress in sports science. In a sense maybe i'm assuming the player of 2016 has to be stronger, fitter than the 2005 model. And as we all know science can't explain everything.

Laois76 (Laois) - Posts: 1270 - 11/10/2016 17:08:46    1925009

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People saying there isn't any competition are being disingenuous as anyone who thinks that Kerry aren't competitive or the best Mayo side to ever represent their county aren't competitive are wide of the mark.
Only the current Dublin side have prevented both from more all Ireland titles undoubtedly.
Donegal have had the best team they ever produced in 2011 through 2014 and were only pipped by Kerry in 2014 by a lapse in concentration and an opportunistic goal.
When a team is dominating in the way this side has done then it's easy to say the competition is weak.

Dubh_linn (Dublin) - Posts: 2312 - 11/10/2016 17:11:53    1925012

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Replying To clondalkindub:  "What's funny is everyone going for there own County , Tyrone won 3 all Ireland's and no leagues in the 00's we've already won 4 Sam's and 4 leagues in a row. It was a great Tyrone team but number 1 ? Come on not even a back to back ffs."
There's a bit of it alright but we all look at our own crowd with rose tinted glasses a little. You know the kind of pride you have when your own team work a ball up the field and score a great score and you puff out the chest and turn to your mate at the game and say 'Jeez that was some score, did you ever see as good a score'!

One thing i can state categorically (as Dr. Paisley might say) is neither the Laois team of the 1930s who won 3 Leinsters in a row and were considered one of the best teams to never in an all-ireland or the Laois team of the 00s are not in the top 12 teams :)

Laois76 (Laois) - Posts: 1270 - 11/10/2016 17:14:19    1925013

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I just think gaa has progressed in intensity in the last 10 years. Much the same way as looking at the conditioning of rugby players now compared to 10 years ago.
Laois76 (Laois)

Conditioning does not make players great and in many cases excessive conditioning makes them less pacy. What has changed is that any guy with a trade / manual work cannot now play inter county football due to the number of training sessions. Excessive training does not make a player fitter as a part of stamina /level of fitness is in your DNA. Dublin are a great side, however nobody who has been watching or playing football could compare the present Kerry team with the very good team which included big Donaghy at his best -in a couple of those years he destroyed every defender that he played on. You cannot compare teams accurately from a different era. About rugby, the all blacks train less than the Irish team and are still vastly superior. Just as a matter of interest the present Tyrone team would have beaten Mayo if the had a good free taker, yet how many of their present team would get on the Tyrone All-Ireland winning teams- 4 or 5 or 2 or 3!.

browncows (Meath) - Posts: 2342 - 11/10/2016 17:14:30    1925014

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Replying To Seansy48:  "I appreciate you including it but you sort of try your best to limit the impact the death of Cormac had on that team , who's to say we don't win alot more with Cormac. The man wasn't just the newly appointed captain of Tyrone, he was the bonefide no questions asked captain of that team of players from Minor onwards. That's before you even get into the idea of losing a friend and colleague forever.

We lacked a proper full back until 2008 when Justin McMahon really came through, Cormac was an all star full back.

Tyrone clearly could produce a performance when they had to have one, maybe the luls and inconsistency don't happen if Cormac doesn't die.

Does losing a brother affect you 5 years after their death? I think you'd say it does, I think you'd have to admit those men are more than likely still affected by it"
Just also Seansy i rate the Tyrone team very highly, i know i have the Dubs ahead and Galway of the 60s on my rough list but it's thin margins. I took great pleasure in watching ye win those all-ireland.

I in no way mean to belittle the effect Cormac McAnallen's passing had on the team either. You make very valid points. In 1997 those young men had to witness Paul McGirr's death on the field too. I don't need to go into other tragedies that befell Tyrone football either.

All the breakthroughs were wonderful, Donegal, Derry, Armagh, Tyrone and anyone i leave out. Colm O'Rourke said on a few ocassions (probably 2002 and 2003) that it would be great if every county could experience the euphoria of winning an all-ireland. Naturally that won't happen. I can only imagine what it's like..

Laois76 (Laois) - Posts: 1270 - 11/10/2016 17:25:12    1925016

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Replying To browncows:  "I just think gaa has progressed in intensity in the last 10 years. Much the same way as looking at the conditioning of rugby players now compared to 10 years ago.
Laois76 (Laois)

Conditioning does not make players great and in many cases excessive conditioning makes them less pacy. What has changed is that any guy with a trade / manual work cannot now play inter county football due to the number of training sessions. Excessive training does not make a player fitter as a part of stamina /level of fitness is in your DNA. Dublin are a great side, however nobody who has been watching or playing football could compare the present Kerry team with the very good team which included big Donaghy at his best -in a couple of those years he destroyed every defender that he played on. You cannot compare teams accurately from a different era. About rugby, the all blacks train less than the Irish team and are still vastly superior. Just as a matter of interest the present Tyrone team would have beaten Mayo if the had a good free taker, yet how many of their present team would get on the Tyrone All-Ireland winning teams- 4 or 5 or 2 or 3!."
Of course conditioning doesn't make a player great. If that was the case we'd all have great inter county teams. I just feel Browncows that the Dublin players are as skilled as Tyrone/Kerry in the 00s but have brought their fitness to a new level. They look like specimens of men, who, more importantly, are great footballers.

I agree about the difficulty of comparing eras but shur we all engage in it a little.

Laois76 (Laois) - Posts: 1270 - 11/10/2016 17:44:04    1925026

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I think the Kerry team of the 70s and 80s is the best team.
I would put the present Dublin team in No. 2 position. I think they play a wonderful style of football and they have Gaelic Football in a very good position at present. They have won 4 All-Irelands in 6 years and 4 National League Titles in a row, some people are inclined to dismiss the league but I am not one of those. I think a big thing about Dublin is that they are winning games throughout the year, not just in August and September. None of their All-Irelands have been won through the back door which again shows their consistency. I think they are winning these titles when there are many good teams competing i.e Mayo, Kerry ,Donegal, Tyrone and to a lesser extent Monaghan. It should also be remembered that Cork won the All-Ireland in 2010 and many analysists were forecasting at the beginning of the decade that Cork would win a few All-Irelands this decade.
I think the Dublin team of the 70s was also another great team. Gaelic Football was going through a poor phase in the late 60s and early 70s, there was much hype in regard to soccer at that time but I think the arrival of Dublin in 1974 glamourised Gaelic Football and set it on a good footing. A previous poster stated only four stars from that team i.e Brian Mullins, Robbie Kelliher, Jimmy Keavney and Kevin Moran but there was many others Anton O'Toole, Tony Hanahoe, David Hickey, Tommy Drumm, Bobby Doyle, Bernard Brogan and John McCarthy.
Other great teams are Kerry and Tyrone of the 00s
The Galway three in a row 1964 to 1966 was also an outstanding team. They had victories over Kerry in three consecutive years in that period i.e. 1963, 1964 & 1965. There were household names on that team.
The Down team of 1960 and 1961 was a truly great team. It was a big break through for the GAA to have a team from across the border win the Sam Maguire cup. There was record attendances at these finals, in 1961 there was 90,556 with many thousands more getting free entry as a result of the gates been burst open. That Down team were ahead of their time bringing a sophistication to the game, instead of the traditional catch and kick.

fainleog (Limerick) - Posts: 598 - 11/10/2016 17:46:12    1925028

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Replying To Dubh_linn:  "People saying there isn't any competition are being disingenuous as anyone who thinks that Kerry aren't competitive or the best Mayo side to ever represent their county aren't competitive are wide of the mark.
Only the current Dublin side have prevented both from more all Ireland titles undoubtedly.
Donegal have had the best team they ever produced in 2011 through 2014 and were only pipped by Kerry in 2014 by a lapse in concentration and an opportunistic goal.
When a team is dominating in the way this side has done then it's easy to say the competition is weak."
I think this year in particular the field really cleared for Dublin, with no standout competitor to push them. Kerry are miles off when you compare them to the 00's version and played out of their skin but never really looked like beating Dublin, Tyrone and Mayo need more firepower, Donegal woeful in the quarters. Maybe the standard of opposition has dropped or perhaps Dublin are just that good. I suspect the former, Dublin themselves didn't score for nearly a half hour in the first final. Could you imagine Kerry / Tyrone of a few years back letting them off with that!

GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2105 - 11/10/2016 17:47:44    1925030

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Replying To browncows:  "I just think gaa has progressed in intensity in the last 10 years. Much the same way as looking at the conditioning of rugby players now compared to 10 years ago.
Laois76 (Laois)

Conditioning does not make players great and in many cases excessive conditioning makes them less pacy. What has changed is that any guy with a trade / manual work cannot now play inter county football due to the number of training sessions. Excessive training does not make a player fitter as a part of stamina /level of fitness is in your DNA. Dublin are a great side, however nobody who has been watching or playing football could compare the present Kerry team with the very good team which included big Donaghy at his best -in a couple of those years he destroyed every defender that he played on. You cannot compare teams accurately from a different era. About rugby, the all blacks train less than the Irish team and are still vastly superior. Just as a matter of interest the present Tyrone team would have beaten Mayo if the had a good free taker, yet how many of their present team would get on the Tyrone All-Ireland winning teams- 4 or 5 or 2 or 3!."
Regarding the ABs as we all know they've lost a few kilos over the last few years and produce an error free high intensity game. By conditioning i don't mean a 13st man beefing up to 14st 7ib. It's the type of conditioning that makes that man around 13st 5ib of pure muscle that can take a huge amount of hits and still be running at the end of 80min. That takes years. In Leinster Meath, Kildare and Laois to name 3 counties don't have that level of fitness yet. We look a little soft. Dublin look like steel. When you combine this with natural footballers as Dublin have then you have some combination.

Laois76 (Laois) - Posts: 1270 - 11/10/2016 17:50:18    1925032

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Replying To clondalkindub:  "Listen man it was a great Tyrone team but no way are they the greatest team ever that's all I'm saying."
Well then we both didn't say our teams were the best team ever. We've both made the same mistake here.

Didn't appreciate your "not even back to back ffs" comment. This Dublin team have never lost a captain to injury let alone anything else.

As Laois has said, the impact can't be quantified

Seansy48 (Tyrone) - Posts: 237 - 11/10/2016 18:05:33    1925038

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