This topic has been closed. No further posting is allowed.
|
Dublin CB came up with this plan, implemented it, 1000's of hours of free volunteer work have been dedicated to make it work, and there is a unified action behind it all, the hunger was there to make it happen, you cant force people to make it happen, and Dublin have always had a strong GAA presence, but it wasn't being harnessed properly.
It's so easy and ignorant to think you just lob extra funding and all will be good, that discredits the huge drive and commitment of many thousands of GAA volunteers on the ground
If other counties are willing to do the same, and have a detailed plan in place that makes financial sense
Then I would be hugely in favour of that county receiving increased development grants because it would be good for the game
I do hope to see that happen and Antrim is a perfect example of a large urban area that is prime for increased development
I'd like to see that happen, but that's up to Antrim and there are no guarantees that they'll be successful.
There's nothing more organic than a bunch of GAA people trying to make the game stronger, to spread the game and increase participation, you can't force young people to play, but you can show it to them, encourage them, and then it's up to them to take it forward, and hope that they want to paly because they love it!
To suggest this is some how not organic is very cold hearted and not actually giving proper thought beyond your own nose.
That's what happened in Dublin. GAA people working their arses off in order to spread our games and fight against other sports popularity in the capital. To suggest that's not organic is wrong. What is more organic than a bunch of well intentioned and highly motivated Irish people wanting to spread Gaelic games and share it with young people.
jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 10/10/2016 12:08:11
1924448
Link
0
|
|
It is wrong to say - "Well we did this and Dublin didn't meaning we're better than you"
Dublin isn't like any other county and it's not a valid comparison to match up Kerry and Dublin
We have a very different set of variables that need to be addressed here in Dublin. There's an awful lot more available for young people in Dublin, where in rural Ireland GAA is far more at the centre of each community.
We're simply not the same. We live on the same Island but we are two very different counties.
We're winning because of our own hard work and commitment, and the DCB have invested heavily into games development, the GAA were right to add additional investment in Dublin, as a strong GAA in Dublin is good for the organisation, they backed a plan, they backed the ambition and it has worked.
This is off the back of decades of under funding games development in the Capital.
Still I do feel it's time for the current level to be adjusted, although we still should receive a larger figure than most, it should be toned down from its current level, as we've now succeeded in what we wanted to accomplish, the plan has worked, and the commitment of the 1000's of hours of volunteer work has paid off
We have our own increased financial independence that can fill the removal of any development funds in the future
But again, what's worrying is this isn't the actual real problem facing the GAA over the next 20-30 years
You can increase games development all you want in rural Ireland, but that isn't going to stop the flow of young Irish people out of rural Ireland. The GAA matches our socio-economic problems seen in Ireland, it works under the same principles of county v county.
Unfortunately for rural Ireland, urban areas are going to get stronger while rural areas get weaker, all the models are pointing to this, the problem with the GAA is that it mirrors the decades of underinvestment in rural Ireland. The infrastructure isn't in place to hold onto young people, and the flow of that life blood will continue to leave in ever increasing numbers.
The population of Dublin is set to keep on rising and the vast bulk of that will be from rural migration
Dublin having a reduction of 20-30% a year in games development isn't going to stop the above from happening.
That's a big problem, and there isn't a damn thing the GAA can do about that, because the problem is on a far greater scale.
The GAA matches this lopsided poorly run island of ours
Sure cut a small bit of funding, Dublin will absorb that loss and continue ion a very similar fashion
Then what..?
jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 10/10/2016 12:08:33
1924449
Link
1
|
|
Jimbo and some other Dublin poster on here are basing their justification for Croke Park's policy on the misguided assumption that Dublin is the only county that has any sort of strategic development plan worthy of so much funding - that Dublin is the only place where hundreds or thousands of coaches and volunteers work hard to ensure the success of the GAA there.
Well to reiterate what I said in an early post, in 2010 the Kerry GAA but in place a well thought out, planned and structured development programme to address what they saw as the underwhelming record of Kerry teams at under-age level in national competitions. The coaching teams and development squads etc which are part of this programme has been behind the remarkable 3 in a row of minor titles won by Kerry since 2014. The underage model we have employed is already being studied and taken on board by several other counties across Ireland.
The Kerry GAA is a very well run organisation and isn't our success at under-age now proof of the worth of our development programme?
Just like Dublin, we have hundreds of dedicated volunteers and coaches working their backsides off to ensure the success of our teams at all levels.
Yet we still are getting less than one fourteenth the amount Croke Park is lavishing on Croke Park.
Dublin is not the only county with well planned and implemented development programmes, yet they still getting multiples of the rest of us, even when their teams are now being so successful!
How any of you can justify this is baffling to me, as I'm sure it is to any one else reading your posts.
P.S., on this whole other justification that the GAA in Dublin would be swept away by a tsunami of soccer and rugby unless Croke Park kept pumping in millions - Do you think that in the modern era every county is not facing the same struggle to keep the GAA alive in the midst of the growing popularity of rival sports?
In my home town of Tralee, soccer is becoming incredibly popular, which is very worrying in what was always a town that was a bastion of Gaelic football. Likewise basketball is making serious inroads at under age.
This notion that the GAA in Dublin will disappear unless they are lavished with money is BS of the highest order. And, as other posters have pointed out, surely the fight is far more critical in the likes of Belfast, Derry, Limerick, Galway and Cork???
TheHermit (Kerry) - Posts: 6354 - 10/10/2016 12:38:47
1924461
Link
5
|
|
Excellent post.
1 thing I'd add. This whole discussion has been dragged up already. Since then the GAA has stated its commitment to funding other counties along the East. Antrim (specifically Belfast), Louth, Wicklow, Meath, Kildare and Wexford are ear marked for funding towards more men on the ground.
It's part of the GAA's strategy to keep up with the rural to urban migration going on. Unfortunate as it is for those counties missing out it probably is for the good of game as a whole that it's these growth areas that are getting targeted.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4232 - 10/10/2016 12:44:10
1924464
Link
1
|
|
First of all, some of the posts in here are pretty disappointing. I can understand Dublin fans being defensive regarding this, but let me just say that what the DCB and GAA people in Dublin have achieved over the last 10-15 years is phenomenal and they should be applauded. This is probably the greatest Dublin team ever at this stage and while of course funding helps, it's nothing without the dedicated people within Dublin GAA to implement strategies and plans and give up their own time to do so.
Saying all of that, the current level of funding, the disparity with the other 31 counties, it can't continue.
The GAA need to consider it's own ethos and commitment to promoting and growing the games on the entire island. That is clearly not the case at the minute. Again, Dublin came up with a plan, they applied for the grants and the funding - fair play to them. It is not Dublin's responsibility to give Wexford or Fermanagh or Cork a kick up the arse regarding their funding. However, it IS the GAA's responsibility to ensure the games are getting promoted and developed in ALL counties across the island. Is there any proactive initiatives from within the GAA to correct the imbalance in Leinster for example?
Why can't the GAA take the model the DCB came up with and apply it island-wide? Obviously it won't work for all counties considering the different demographics and population spread, but it's a start. Why not provide extra funding to counties only on the condition they come up with a clear 5 year plan with achievable goals? And future funding to be dependent on the success of said plan?
Why aren't the GAA giving funding for each county to have a games development co-ordinator for example? Could there not be some sort of link to performance over the past 5 years and funding going forward?
How can Fermanagh ever be realistically expected to win an Ulster when they are starting from a disadvantaged position, and are never given extra funding or help over the likes of ourselves and Tyrone?
What counties manage to fund raise on their own through sponsorship and donations should be that counties money to spend (but should of course be closely audited and monitored by the GAA), but what goes into Croke Park should be used to improve our games, promote our games and ensure kids are enjoying and want to continue playing our games. That is quite simply not happening at the minute.
Counties are struggling big time. That's not Dublin's problem, but it is the GAA's.
Small sidenote: A Dublin poster mentioned Dublin being a soccer city, and losing players to soccer. Donegal is one of the biggest soccer counties you can find - things have changed immeasurably in the last 5 years for us but I can tell you of at least 4 lads I know personally who were hugely talented GAA players and could easily have made county had they carried on, but made the switch to soccer and are now playing Sunday league stuff. That's just myself, I'm sure other Donegal folk could tell you of 2 or 3 from every parish with a similar story. I'm not saying funding is the reason for that - but pointing at other sports as a reason for more funding to stay competitive is a complete red herring as the implication is no other county has to compete with other sports.
JoeSoap (Donegal) - Posts: 1432 - 10/10/2016 13:04:28
1924476
Link
5
|
|
By any chance is your name Lionel Hutz KingdomBoy?
"We've got lots of hearsay and conjecture.....those are kindsa evidence!!"
keithlemon (Australia) - Posts:380 - 10/10/2016
He's had it in for me ever since I kind of ran over his dog.
You did?
Well, replace "kind of" with "repeatedly" and "dog" with "son."
if_in_doubt (Kildare) - Posts: 3685 - 10/10/2016 13:08:20
1924480
Link
1
|
|
Replying To TheHermit: "Jimbo and some other Dublin poster on here are basing their justification for Croke Park's policy on the misguided assumption that Dublin is the only county that has any sort of strategic development plan worthy of so much funding - that Dublin is the only place where hundreds or thousands of coaches and volunteers work hard to ensure the success of the GAA there.
Well to reiterate what I said in an early post, in 2010 the Kerry GAA but in place a well thought out, planned and structured development programme to address what they saw as the underwhelming record of Kerry teams at under-age level in national competitions. The coaching teams and development squads etc which are part of this programme has been behind the remarkable 3 in a row of minor titles won by Kerry since 2014. The underage model we have employed is already being studied and taken on board by several other counties across Ireland.
The Kerry GAA is a very well run organisation and isn't our success at under-age now proof of the worth of our development programme?
Just like Dublin, we have hundreds of dedicated volunteers and coaches working their backsides off to ensure the success of our teams at all levels.
Yet we still are getting less than one fourteenth the amount Croke Park is lavishing on Croke Park.
Dublin is not the only county with well planned and implemented development programmes, yet they still getting multiples of the rest of us, even when their teams are now being so successful!
How any of you can justify this is baffling to me, as I'm sure it is to any one else reading your posts.
P.S., on this whole other justification that the GAA in Dublin would be swept away by a tsunami of soccer and rugby unless Croke Park kept pumping in millions - Do you think that in the modern era every county is not facing the same struggle to keep the GAA alive in the midst of the growing popularity of rival sports?
In my home town of Tralee, soccer is becoming incredibly popular, which is very worrying in what was always a town that was a bastion of Gaelic football. Likewise basketball is making serious inroads at under age.
This notion that the GAA in Dublin will disappear unless they are lavished with money is BS of the highest order. And, as other posters have pointed out, surely the fight is far more critical in the likes of Belfast, Derry, Limerick, Galway and Cork???" Dublin GAA needed investment, that time has come and passed
It's time for the current level to stop and the GAA are currently looking into this and I agree with that
It's encouraging to see the increased investment in several counties along the East coast
The project has succeeded and it's now time for games development projects around the country to increase
But they shouldn't just hand over funds without proper strategic plans that make financial sense
If that means 20-30% less going to Dublin per year
I would 100% support that as we have our own channels to fill the short fall now
jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 10/10/2016 13:27:24
1924494
Link
0
|
|
We have seen many millions, scores of millions being handed out on vanity projects around the country, where it was investment in people, not bricks and cement that was required, that was shameful waster of valuable funds and we continue to see that trend in Cork
In Dublin our own hard work/commitment is proof that when the right people are in charge and 1000's of volunteers come together under one plan, with a unified direction and goal that great things can be accomplished
I'd like to see other counties do this very thing and I wish them the best, all GAA people should.
I just think it's awful to see terms like "inorganic" being banded around so easily
Dublin GAA have done Trojan work to make what's happening possible, investing in young Irish people to take up GAA is exactly why the organisation was setup
To suggest it as not being organic is in very poor taste and shows a complete lack of respect
It's a very unsavoury use of language and I find it highly insulting to think that's how some country people see it
While they probably have relatives who have been involved in GAA in Dublin over the last 10 years
Have to admit, I'm really disappointed to read such things.
jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 10/10/2016 13:27:37
1924495
Link
1
|
|
Replying To JoeSoap: "First of all, some of the posts in here are pretty disappointing. I can understand Dublin fans being defensive regarding this, but let me just say that what the DCB and GAA people in Dublin have achieved over the last 10-15 years is phenomenal and they should be applauded. This is probably the greatest Dublin team ever at this stage and while of course funding helps, it's nothing without the dedicated people within Dublin GAA to implement strategies and plans and give up their own time to do so.
Saying all of that, the current level of funding, the disparity with the other 31 counties, it can't continue.
The GAA need to consider it's own ethos and commitment to promoting and growing the games on the entire island. That is clearly not the case at the minute. Again, Dublin came up with a plan, they applied for the grants and the funding - fair play to them. It is not Dublin's responsibility to give Wexford or Fermanagh or Cork a kick up the arse regarding their funding. However, it IS the GAA's responsibility to ensure the games are getting promoted and developed in ALL counties across the island. Is there any proactive initiatives from within the GAA to correct the imbalance in Leinster for example?
Why can't the GAA take the model the DCB came up with and apply it island-wide? Obviously it won't work for all counties considering the different demographics and population spread, but it's a start. Why not provide extra funding to counties only on the condition they come up with a clear 5 year plan with achievable goals? And future funding to be dependent on the success of said plan?
Why aren't the GAA giving funding for each county to have a games development co-ordinator for example? Could there not be some sort of link to performance over the past 5 years and funding going forward?
How can Fermanagh ever be realistically expected to win an Ulster when they are starting from a disadvantaged position, and are never given extra funding or help over the likes of ourselves and Tyrone?
What counties manage to fund raise on their own through sponsorship and donations should be that counties money to spend (but should of course be closely audited and monitored by the GAA), but what goes into Croke Park should be used to improve our games, promote our games and ensure kids are enjoying and want to continue playing our games. That is quite simply not happening at the minute.
Counties are struggling big time. That's not Dublin's problem, but it is the GAA's.
Small sidenote: A Dublin poster mentioned Dublin being a soccer city, and losing players to soccer. Donegal is one of the biggest soccer counties you can find - things have changed immeasurably in the last 5 years for us but I can tell you of at least 4 lads I know personally who were hugely talented GAA players and could easily have made county had they carried on, but made the switch to soccer and are now playing Sunday league stuff. That's just myself, I'm sure other Donegal folk could tell you of 2 or 3 from every parish with a similar story. I'm not saying funding is the reason for that - but pointing at other sports as a reason for more funding to stay competitive is a complete red herring as the implication is no other county has to compete with other sports." Good post
Reasonable and fair
jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 10/10/2016 13:29:33
1924497
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Whammo86: "Excellent post.
1 thing I'd add. This whole discussion has been dragged up already. Since then the GAA has stated its commitment to funding other counties along the East. Antrim (specifically Belfast), Louth, Wicklow, Meath, Kildare and Wexford are ear marked for funding towards more men on the ground.
It's part of the GAA's strategy to keep up with the rural to urban migration going on. Unfortunate as it is for those counties missing out it probably is for the good of game as a whole that it's these growth areas that are getting targeted." Good post
That is encouraging to see and I hope it proves to be successful
Listen I like many other Dubs would see it the right time to move away from the current level of funding going to Dublin
It's understandable that the GAA is currently examining it
A 20-30% year on year reduction is fair in my book
Especially considering Dublin's greater commercial activity since it's introduction
Dublin were still sponsored by Arnotts when this was first brought in, that climate has changed now and as such so should the games development funding
Dublin is already matching like for like with the GAA, perhaps we should up our won investment by a further 20-30%
I just take great exception to some of the easy and reckless terms being banded around on this thread
It shows a distinct lack of respect and I'd question the motives of some using those terms so readily
Especially after we win an All Ireland at their expense.
jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 10/10/2016 13:36:44
1924504
Link
2
|
|
"Why can't the GAA take the model the DCB came up with and apply it island-wide? Obviously it won't work for all counties considering the different demographics and population spread, but it's a start. Why not provide extra funding to counties only on the condition they come up with a clear 5 year plan with achievable goals? And future funding to be dependent on the success of said plan?"
That is 100% the way forward.
Very well said. You cant just hand out funds with no direction and clear plan for future success
That wouldn't be at all wise on any level
jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 10/10/2016 13:56:41
1924521
Link
0
|
|
Replying To jimbodub: ""Why can't the GAA take the model the DCB came up with and apply it island-wide? Obviously it won't work for all counties considering the different demographics and population spread, but it's a start. Why not provide extra funding to counties only on the condition they come up with a clear 5 year plan with achievable goals? And future funding to be dependent on the success of said plan?"
That is 100% the way forward.
Very well said. You cant just hand out funds with no direction and clear plan for future success
That wouldn't be at all wise on any level" Thanks Jimbo, as I said I can understand Dubs getting defensive as it's easy to feel like there's a witch hunt and just sour grapes after back-to-back All-Irelands. Similarly it's very easy to jump on that bandwagon when Dublin fans get their backs up and close ranks against us culchies. In all honesty, these posts and comments from GAA people all over the country are not helpful to anyone except the GAA. While a Kerryman is moaning about Dublin bias and a Dub is calling it bitter jealousy, the GAA get away with not doing their job - promoting the games across the entire island.
I agree that handing out funds without a clear plan is foolish, but I'd also say that I think the GAA need to be proactive in helping counties formulate those plans. Years of neglect does nothing for motivation.
JoeSoap (Donegal) - Posts: 1432 - 10/10/2016 14:20:21
1924536
Link
1
|
|
Replying To JoeSoap: "Thanks Jimbo, as I said I can understand Dubs getting defensive as it's easy to feel like there's a witch hunt and just sour grapes after back-to-back All-Irelands. Similarly it's very easy to jump on that bandwagon when Dublin fans get their backs up and close ranks against us culchies. In all honesty, these posts and comments from GAA people all over the country are not helpful to anyone except the GAA. While a Kerryman is moaning about Dublin bias and a Dub is calling it bitter jealousy, the GAA get away with not doing their job - promoting the games across the entire island.
I agree that handing out funds without a clear plan is foolish, but I'd also say that I think the GAA need to be proactive in helping counties formulate those plans. Years of neglect does nothing for motivation." Not at all it was an excellent contribution and you make some very sensible points
I once again agree with your latest logic up above
Who doesn't want t see everyone do well!
But it has to be approached properly and it has to make financial sense
I mean having a strong GAA in Dublin is important, but there's more going on now that needs to be addressed, the GAA will be looking to bolster investment on the East coast, and as pointed out by Whammo, that does indeed make sense as these counties being in close proximity to Dublin are the counties that will be growing the most population in the next 20-30 years, focused funding with a strategic goal.
Now that's smart.. handing over 40 million of tax payer/GAA money to build a stadium in Cork that will be full twice a year...
Not so smart when you consider what has been achieved in Dublin with far less investment over a 12-13 year period, and the country is already littered with these while elephant Celtic tiger styled vanity projects, and TBH it's odd that more people aren't talking about this
jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 10/10/2016 14:53:16
1924558
Link
0
|
|
Can Dublin posters please explain why they are the Golden Child of the GAA? Why their kids are so special and deserve 10-15 times kids elsewhere both rural and major urban areas elsewhere in the country?
Why don't kids in Limerick, Cork, Galway, Belfast get such enormous funding, it's been a closed shop Re:funding for far too long as we can see with the monopoly the GAA have created - which all started with the abnormal funding levels to go with all the other advantages they already had
HurlingWarrior (Limerick) - Posts: 61 - 10/10/2016 17:25:14
1924628
Link
1
|
|
Replying To HurlingWarrior: "Can Dublin posters please explain why they are the Golden Child of the GAA? Why their kids are so special and deserve 10-15 times kids elsewhere both rural and major urban areas elsewhere in the country?
Why don't kids in Limerick, Cork, Galway, Belfast get such enormous funding, it's been a closed shop Re:funding for far too long as we can see with the monopoly the GAA have created - which all started with the abnormal funding levels to go with all the other advantages they already had" The Dublin County Board get funding based on the proposals they put forward that are accepted. They just happen to be very, very good at doing this. There is a no rule against any Club or County Board doing the same. But it's like a mortgage application - unless the application is sound, it won't be entertained.
Crabbing on about how much the DCB get and what they do with it is pointless. They're doing their Job, and they're getting results. Better to focus on:
* Why your county board is not working like this for you.
* Why your local club is not working like this for you.
* How the GAA approve and distribute funding.
Jaden (Dublin) - Posts: 139 - 10/10/2016 18:25:25
1924640
Link
2
|
|
Replying To jimbodub: "Not at all it was an excellent contribution and you make some very sensible points
I once again agree with your latest logic up above
Who doesn't want t see everyone do well!
But it has to be approached properly and it has to make financial sense
I mean having a strong GAA in Dublin is important, but there's more going on now that needs to be addressed, the GAA will be looking to bolster investment on the East coast, and as pointed out by Whammo, that does indeed make sense as these counties being in close proximity to Dublin are the counties that will be growing the most population in the next 20-30 years, focused funding with a strategic goal.
Now that's smart.. handing over 40 million of tax payer/GAA money to build a stadium in Cork that will be full twice a year...
Not so smart when you consider what has been achieved in Dublin with far less investment over a 12-13 year period, and the country is already littered with these while elephant Celtic tiger styled vanity projects, and TBH it's odd that more people aren't talking about this" your talking a lot of sense but it does come across with certain people that they dont want the gaa to be going well in other counties just their own..they think solely from the viewpoint of their own team and not the organisation as a whole...my experience of the leinster championship over the last 10 years has made me desire even the likes of meath getting stronger!
alano12 (Dublin) - Posts: 2208 - 10/10/2016 20:57:23
1924679
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Jaden: "The Dublin County Board get funding based on the proposals they put forward that are accepted. They just happen to be very, very good at doing this. There is a no rule against any Club or County Board doing the same. But it's like a mortgage application - unless the application is sound, it won't be entertained.
Crabbing on about how much the DCB get and what they do with it is pointless. They're doing their Job, and they're getting results. Better to focus on:
* Why your county board is not working like this for you.
* Why your local club is not working like this for you.
* How the GAA approve and distribute funding." So basically the rest of the country are a bunch of illiterate and thick gombeens who aren't worth the time of day let alone significant financial resources as they quite simply couldn't use the money as diligently as the wizards in the DCB
Now, I mightn't be a sophisticated genius like them but I know one thing peppering a vast proportion of national resources into one team over a long period of time will create a monopoly that no one else will have a chance of competing with over the mid to long term and thus a reduction of interest and crowds at games due to the sheer and utter predictability of the competition. I wonder why the geniuses at GAA HQ haven't seen and rectified this issue.
HurlingWarrior (Limerick) - Posts: 61 - 10/10/2016 21:43:54
1924703
Link
1
|
|
Replying To HurlingWarrior: "So basically the rest of the country are a bunch of illiterate and thick gombeens who aren't worth the time of day let alone significant financial resources as they quite simply couldn't use the money as diligently as the wizards in the DCB
Now, I mightn't be a sophisticated genius like them but I know one thing peppering a vast proportion of national resources into one team over a long period of time will create a monopoly that no one else will have a chance of competing with over the mid to long term and thus a reduction of interest and crowds at games due to the sheer and utter predictability of the competition. I wonder why the geniuses at GAA HQ haven't seen and rectified this issue." Perhaps you could write them a strongly worded letter? Your disdain is quite obviously misguided.
Jackeen (Dublin) - Posts: 4097 - 10/10/2016 22:07:10
1924712
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Jackeen: "Perhaps you could write them a strongly worded letter? Your disdain is quite obviously misguided." i do think the portrayal of other counties as gombeens amongst other things who couldnt possibly come up with a plan needs to stop as it adds nothing to the debate and is in bad taste
alano12 (Dublin) - Posts: 2208 - 10/10/2016 22:12:41
1924713
Link
1
|
|
Replying To alano12: "i do think the portrayal of other counties as gombeens amongst other things who couldnt possibly come up with a plan needs to stop as it adds nothing to the debate and is in bad taste" I never once said anybody was a gombeen my friend nor do i agree with that sentiment. I'm simply pointing out that all of this outrage is misdirected at Dublin.
Jackeen (Dublin) - Posts: 4097 - 11/10/2016 08:37:43
1924750
Link
2
|