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Financial Doping in the GAA

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Replying To Weary: "OK as I stated to floops. I have not and do not begrudge Dublin any of their All Ireland titles. I have great respect and admiration for some Dublin players and not so much of others. Dublin are deserving winners of their recent titles no question. I too agree that the money being pumped into the vanity project in Cork is beyond ridiculous and is a waste. Still this topic is in relation to Dublin receiving multiples more in development monies compared to the rest of the country and has done so for 12 or so years. That is the issue at hand. 5 or 6 years ago there wasn't a white elephant being built in Cork but Dublin was receiving multiples of development funds compared to the rest of the country.That is all. It is not a slight at the success of Dublin's senior football success for the last time! It is just about the development funding!" Have you researched how much money the other counties spend? Dublin GAA spent 1.3 million last year preparing its adult teams (Male Hurlers/Footballers and u21's in both codes. I think the ladies footballers are included in that too but I'm open to correction on that) Mayo and Kerry GAA spent over 900k each on their adult set up. Kerry have been doing a bit in terms of hurling so I won't tar them with the same brush as Mayo. But if you look at what Dublin and Mayo spend and consider we hurl and they don't (to any significant level)? It would be fair to assume Mayo spend just as much as Dublin. And Kerry probably do too. If you took Dublin out of next years championship Mayo and Kerry will still spend close to a million quid trying to capture Sam. Any county with ambitions of winning the All Ireland will spend close to a million euro preparing teams. It's not just Dublin. And on the financial doping claims, I have repetitively said this for years. The reason Dublin were allocated funding was they applied for it. And they had detailed plans on how the money was to be spent. Now Dublin aren't the only county applying for funding. This notion of giving Div. 4 teams a million quid each next year is farcical. They haven't a costed plan on how much they need, how it will be spent and what are the outcomes of receiving the funding. Walk into a bank tomorrow and ask for 400k to build a house and they won't just hand you money! Lastly, Dublin is a soccer city. If the GAA was not funded in the county you are losing the hearts and minds of children to premier league soccer. The GAA aren't stupid, their biggest revenue spinner are the Dubs. Take Dublin out of the GAA and it will survive as a country sport. It will be successful to a point. But the revenue brought in will nose dive. And infrastructure projects around the country will dry up. You don't have to promote hurling in Kilkenny, you do in Dublin. You have to promote Gaelic football too. And the big numbers means bigger cost. It's like driving a 1L car and looking at a 4L Jag. It looks great compared to your car, but if you drove it for a week you'd need a second mortgage for fuel. The 1L Nissan Micra works, and doesn't need as much fuel. The GAA care about Dublin GAA, because they know financially it's making them a fortune. And lastly, why don't other counties copy Dublins template, no need to reinvent the wheel, they'd have to scale some of it back. It's no secret and available in black and white. The only this money can't by is talent. And when we had the money in the noughties and no talent we weren't winning All Ireland's. Amazing coincidence we have a better pool of talent and are successful. To all the trolls out there, relax, success is cyclic. We'll go back to losing in a while. Then you'll all be happy. JayP (Dublin) - Posts: 1772 - 08/10/2016 14:56:58 1924048 Link
Replying To JayP: "Have you researched how much money the other counties spend? Dublin GAA spent 1.3 million last year preparing its adult teams (Male Hurlers/Footballers and u21's in both codes. I think the ladies footballers are included in that too but I'm open to correction on that) Mayo and Kerry GAA spent over 900k each on their adult set up. Kerry have been doing a bit in terms of hurling so I won't tar them with the same brush as Mayo. But if you look at what Dublin and Mayo spend and consider we hurl and they don't (to any significant level)? It would be fair to assume Mayo spend just as much as Dublin. And Kerry probably do too. If you took Dublin out of next years championship Mayo and Kerry will still spend close to a million quid trying to capture Sam. Any county with ambitions of winning the All Ireland will spend close to a million euro preparing teams. It's not just Dublin. And on the financial doping claims, I have repetitively said this for years. The reason Dublin were allocated funding was they applied for it. And they had detailed plans on how the money was to be spent. Now Dublin aren't the only county applying for funding. This notion of giving Div. 4 teams a million quid each next year is farcical. They haven't a costed plan on how much they need, how it will be spent and what are the outcomes of receiving the funding. Walk into a bank tomorrow and ask for 400k to build a house and they won't just hand you money! Lastly, Dublin is a soccer city. If the GAA was not funded in the county you are losing the hearts and minds of children to premier league soccer. The GAA aren't stupid, their biggest revenue spinner are the Dubs. Take Dublin out of the GAA and it will survive as a country sport. It will be successful to a point. But the revenue brought in will nose dive. And infrastructure projects around the country will dry up. You don't have to promote hurling in Kilkenny, you do in Dublin. You have to promote Gaelic football too. And the big numbers means bigger cost. It's like driving a 1L car and looking at a 4L Jag. It looks great compared to your car, but if you drove it for a week you'd need a second mortgage for fuel. The 1L Nissan Micra works, and doesn't need as much fuel. The GAA care about Dublin GAA, because they know financially it's making them a fortune. And lastly, why don't other counties copy Dublins template, no need to reinvent the wheel, they'd have to scale some of it back. It's no secret and available in black and white. The only this money can't by is talent. And when we had the money in the noughties and no talent we weren't winning All Ireland's. Amazing coincidence we have a better pool of talent and are successful. To all the trolls out there, relax, success is cyclic. We'll go back to losing in a while. Then you'll all be happy." Jaysus this is gas. As you directly replied to me I assume you are referring to me as a troll. I should just give up. I really should. This isn't about how much each county spend on their senior teams. I have no problem with money being granted to Dublin. I have a problem with development funding being granted to Dublin in multiple s of 10 - 15 of other county's per registered players for 12 or so years. I could see the reasons to start this in the mid 2000s. But time is long past to decrease it. Would you believe that soccer is now played in most parishes in Ireland. Most kids outside Dublin would also play at least one other sport outside GAA be in soccer, rugby, basketball or whatever. So all GAA clubs would be competing for the hearts and minds of kids all over the country. I repeat this has nothing to do with the success of the Dublin senior men's team over the last 5 years. No problem with Dublin winning their All Ireland. They were deserved. It's about the allocation of development funding!!! I can't put it any simpler than that. Who's next? Weary (None) - Posts: 249 - 08/10/2016 15:40:19 1924053 Link
Replying To Weary: "Jaysus this is gas. As you directly replied to me I assume you are referring to me as a troll. I should just give up. I really should. This isn't about how much each county spend on their senior teams. I have no problem with money being granted to Dublin. I have a problem with development funding being granted to Dublin in multiple s of 10 - 15 of other county's per registered players for 12 or so years. I could see the reasons to start this in the mid 2000s. But time is long past to decrease it. Would you believe that soccer is now played in most parishes in Ireland. Most kids outside Dublin would also play at least one other sport outside GAA be in soccer, rugby, basketball or whatever. So all GAA clubs would be competing for the hearts and minds of kids all over the country. I repeat this has nothing to do with the success of the Dublin senior men's team over the last 5 years. No problem with Dublin winning their All Ireland. They were deserved. It's about the allocation of development funding!!! I can't put it any simpler than that. Who's next?" I didnt call you a troll. I pointed out there are many out there. Your point on development funding answered quite quickly. Bigger population, bigger funding. Right, answer me this ...... What would happen if the GAA cut Dublins development funding? Just in terms of GAA in Dublin. Forget talking about other counties etc. Just focus on Dublin and what would happen to GAA in Dublin. Jimbodub has talked quite sensibly on this for numerous months. In times of depression, people emigrate or go to big cities for work. With the immigration in recent years Dublins population has expanded. Many immigrants have permanantly made the move. They have young kids etc. They arent GAA people, but they could be! JayP (Dublin) - Posts: 1772 - 08/10/2016 16:30:23 1924064 Link
This thread was started due to concerns over the Games Development Grant and how the money is divided amongst the counties. Dublin 274.7 PER REGISTERED PLAYER against say Galway for example who receive just 15 PER REGISTERED PLAYER. It's that simple. It's not based on population. It's simple. If you think that is in any way fair, that's up to you. Surely Galway as an urban centre is battling against soccer and particularly Rugby. Just one example. I have no more to say on this. I cannot make it any clearer. Weary (None) - Posts: 249 - 08/10/2016 17:37:57 1924077 Link
I think that Dublin have spent any money the receive wisely and that can be seen by the number of new clubs and success of their county teams. What does concern me is way county football has gone professional in terms of training. Simply put a county player need to put his life on hold to compete which cannot be good for our games or the players involved. browncows (Meath) - Posts: 2342 - 08/10/2016 18:27:37 1924092 Link
Replying To Weary: "This thread was started due to concerns over the Games Development Grant and how the money is divided amongst the counties. Dublin 274.7 PER REGISTERED PLAYER against say Galway for example who receive just 15 PER REGISTERED PLAYER. It's that simple. It's not based on population. It's simple. If you think that is in any way fair, that's up to you. Surely Galway as an urban centre is battling against soccer and particularly Rugby. Just one example. I have no more to say on this. I cannot make it any clearer." The registered player waffle is not relevent. Simply put, development grants arent given on the basis a county has X or Y number of players registered. Development grants are given to upgrade infrastructure and/or to put in new infrastructure. Galway need development grants, but not on the scale or size Dublin do. Dublin GAA have well costed ambitious plans for games development in the county. The bigger population means bigger cost. The only way you get "registered" players is by spending big on games promotion to unregistered players. I dont know what you want Dubs to say? That we are getting treated better? Look Dublin GAA is a well run machine and are doing terrific work in games promotion and development. Could other counties get more? Yeah, probably. But its not a Dublin problem. Its a GAA problem. These arguments are parish pump gossip. If people take the blinkers off its not unusual the most populated cities in any country in the world receive more money to administrate their cities. Why would sport be any different? JayP (Dublin) - Posts: 1772 - 09/10/2016 09:44:49 1924171 Link
Simply put, development grants arent given on the basis a county has X or Y number of players registered. Well how the hell do you determine grants then? Just because Dublin has 1.3 million doesn't mean it has that amount involved in GAA and I don't think Dublin should be getting funds for people who never have or will be involved in GAA? Lets look at the major urban areas. Dublin has 38k , Cork 33k, Galway 21k , Limerick 14k and Belfast 10k . With the exception of Belfast (which has obvious unique circumstances) Dublin has a far lower % of its population playing GAA than the others I don't see why they should be punished for having a greater penetration rate even though in Limerick City the GAA is a peripheral sport in relative terms to soccer and rugby why aren't we given assistance like Dublin have over the last decade? HurlingWarrior (Limerick) - Posts: 61 - 09/10/2016 13:40:20 1924200 Link
From what iv read the Dublin financial doping started around 2008 , up to 2008 Dublin had won 1 allireland in 25 years an in the 8 years since the Dublin financial doping began the dubs have won 4 allirelands so people can't say the massive amounts of money the GAA have gifted the dubs has had nothing to do with their success because it has had everything to do with it. KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 09/10/2016 21:29:17 1924307 Link
Replying To JayP: "The registered player waffle is not relevent. Simply put, development grants arent given on the basis a county has X or Y number of players registered. Development grants are given to upgrade infrastructure and/or to put in new infrastructure. Galway need development grants, but not on the scale or size Dublin do. Dublin GAA have well costed ambitious plans for games development in the county. The bigger population means bigger cost. The only way you get "registered" players is by spending big on games promotion to unregistered players. I dont know what you want Dubs to say? That we are getting treated better? Look Dublin GAA is a well run machine and are doing terrific work in games promotion and development. Could other counties get more? Yeah, probably. But its not a Dublin problem. Its a GAA problem. These arguments are parish pump gossip. If people take the blinkers off its not unusual the most populated cities in any country in the world receive more money to administrate their cities. Why would sport be any different?" one of the most biased posts u will ever see on hoganstand alano12 (Dublin) - Posts: 2208 - 09/10/2016 21:57:56 1924312 Link
Replying To alano12: "one of the most biased posts u will ever see on hoganstand" I agree, its biased towards common sense and fact! Reality needs to set in here. Why are registered players even a criteria when you talk about funding? Like, we know Dublin get more funding, but why is that? Is it because the GAA love Dublin and want them to win? Or is it for a more slap you in the face obvious fact! Reality, its money. Dublin bring cash, and to ignore its biggest market would be financial lunacy by the GAA. Now is it fair that other counties dont get development funding equal to Dublin? Well, take away that stupidly referenced registered players nonsense and dig deeper, take the blinkers off. Have Cork not got funding that eclipses any funding that Dublin got over 15 years? Why arent people questioning that.....? A stadium thats usage will be minimal? Lets move on, should Leitrim get equal funding to Dublin? No, they should get funding based on planning and the scale of their development project. If its well costed and makes sense, give funding below OR ABOVE Dublins funding as long as it makes sense as a project. I am not biased. I just know a little bit about this stuff and know the FACTS presentented by some on here are ridiculous. Like, to not fund the biggest market would be financial mismanagement by the GAA. And last time I checked (and I have), Dublins development plans were detailed and well presented. As I said, dont reinvent the wheel....tweak Dublins plan to scale and add/delete parts of it to suit each counties needs. And I repeat, I dont know what people expect here. Dublin shouldnt apply for funding so? Is it fair Dublin got more funding? Well maybe it is? Were all counties submitting applications? Most people on here dont know! And an application for funding a major infrastructure project is not written on a napkin in McDonalds! Its a long process. Biased? Im just talking sense. In order to get funding you need to apply for it! Dublin did, and got funding. Is that funding fair? Well unless you can come up with a reason why it was unfair.......Did Dublin get funding at any other counties expense? I've not heard HQ saying......Carlow didnt get a development grant because Dublin got it!!!! Jasus lads......we are gonna give you development grants based on how many registered players you have. Again, its not on the criteria for awarding of funding, so its a poor stat. Lazy research! JayP (Dublin) - Posts: 1772 - 09/10/2016 22:38:26 1924320 Link
Replying To KingdomBoy1: "From what iv read the Dublin financial doping started around 2008 , up to 2008 Dublin had won 1 allireland in 25 years an in the 8 years since the Dublin financial doping began the dubs have won 4 allirelands so people can't say the massive amounts of money the GAA have gifted the dubs has had nothing to do with their success because it has had everything to do with it." I see, so you are implying that a cash injection which began in 2008 yielded an all-Ireland in 2011? The Brogan's would have been in their mid to late 20s at that stage. It's got to be one of the most silly posts ever on this site. And that's saying something. Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 09/10/2016 23:12:55 1924324 Link
Replying To JayP: "I agree, its biased towards common sense and fact! Reality needs to set in here. Why are registered players even a criteria when you talk about funding? Like, we know Dublin get more funding, but why is that? Is it because the GAA love Dublin and want them to win? Or is it for a more slap you in the face obvious fact! Reality, its money. Dublin bring cash, and to ignore its biggest market would be financial lunacy by the GAA. Now is it fair that other counties dont get development funding equal to Dublin? Well, take away that stupidly referenced registered players nonsense and dig deeper, take the blinkers off. Have Cork not got funding that eclipses any funding that Dublin got over 15 years? Why arent people questioning that.....? A stadium thats usage will be minimal? Lets move on, should Leitrim get equal funding to Dublin? No, they should get funding based on planning and the scale of their development project. If its well costed and makes sense, give funding below OR ABOVE Dublins funding as long as it makes sense as a project. I am not biased. I just know a little bit about this stuff and know the FACTS presentented by some on here are ridiculous. Like, to not fund the biggest market would be financial mismanagement by the GAA. And last time I checked (and I have), Dublins development plans were detailed and well presented. As I said, dont reinvent the wheel....tweak Dublins plan to scale and add/delete parts of it to suit each counties needs. And I repeat, I dont know what people expect here. Dublin shouldnt apply for funding so? Is it fair Dublin got more funding? Well maybe it is? Were all counties submitting applications? Most people on here dont know! And an application for funding a major infrastructure project is not written on a napkin in McDonalds! Its a long process. Biased? Im just talking sense. In order to get funding you need to apply for it! Dublin did, and got funding. Is that funding fair? Well unless you can come up with a reason why it was unfair.......Did Dublin get funding at any other counties expense? I've not heard HQ saying......Carlow didnt get a development grant because Dublin got it!!!! Jasus lads......we are gonna give you development grants based on how many registered players you have. Again, its not on the criteria for awarding of funding, so its a poor stat. Lazy research!" Yes. The "per registered player" is a complete red herring here. it's as relevant as if they'd said "per letterbox" games development is about getting kids involved, training and joining clubs and keeping them there. But sticking it in there plays well with the kneejerk beal-bocht crew. Gavvygavgav (Dublin) - Posts: 383 - 10/10/2016 00:08:50 1924337 Link
There's a lot of people on here defending the vast GAA outlay on Dublin "because of the population". Fair enough if that's your arguement can you explain why places like Belfast and Derry get so little GAA investment compared to Dublin? Belfast and Antrim in particular have been shamefully and willfully ignored by Croke Park for decades and when you realise the potential in the city that's a disgrace. It's no surprise in the wake of such Gaelic Games neglect that soccer is the No. 1 sport by a distance amongst young Nationalists in those places. I would go as far as to say that the Irish Football Association, more traditionally a Unionist and Protestant body, has probably put more into youth coaching in these areas than the GAA and that is an indictment on Croke Park. Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9706 - 10/10/2016 00:30:07 1924341 Link
Replying To Ulsterman: "There's a lot of people on here defending the vast GAA outlay on Dublin "because of the population". Fair enough if that's your arguement can you explain why places like Belfast and Derry get so little GAA investment compared to Dublin? Belfast and Antrim in particular have been shamefully and willfully ignored by Croke Park for decades and when you realise the potential in the city that's a disgrace. It's no surprise in the wake of such Gaelic Games neglect that soccer is the No. 1 sport by a distance amongst young Nationalists in those places. I would go as far as to say that the Irish Football Association, more traditionally a Unionist and Protestant body, has probably put more into youth coaching in these areas than the GAA and that is an indictment on Croke Park." Because you guys spend more time squabbling internally amongst the clubs than building structures. Dublin had a county wide coherent plan and got funded. The WHOLE county was behind it. You can honestly say the same thing would happen in Antrim???? witnof (Dublin) - Posts: 1604 - 10/10/2016 09:48:20 1924382 Link
Replying To KingdomBoy1: "From what iv read the Dublin financial doping started around 2008 , up to 2008 Dublin had won 1 allireland in 25 years an in the 8 years since the Dublin financial doping began the dubs have won 4 allirelands so people can't say the massive amounts of money the GAA have gifted the dubs has had nothing to do with their success because it has had everything to do with it." I think you're on to something KingdomBoy I think we need to a new test to check which players are manufactured and which ones are organic. If any players has a hint of being 'financially doped' they should be given a lifetime ban Seanie Johnstone better look out!! keithlemon (Australia) - Posts: 920 - 10/10/2016 10:25:53 1924398 Link
Replying To Ulsterman: "There's a lot of people on here defending the vast GAA outlay on Dublin "because of the population". Fair enough if that's your arguement can you explain why places like Belfast and Derry get so little GAA investment compared to Dublin? Belfast and Antrim in particular have been shamefully and willfully ignored by Croke Park for decades and when you realise the potential in the city that's a disgrace. It's no surprise in the wake of such Gaelic Games neglect that soccer is the No. 1 sport by a distance amongst young Nationalists in those places. I would go as far as to say that the Irish Football Association, more traditionally a Unionist and Protestant body, has probably put more into youth coaching in these areas than the GAA and that is an indictment on Croke Park." Don't bother Ulsterman. They have an answer for everything the Dublin lads on here. You put forward a perfectly reasonable argument but the experts on here will dismiss it. They just don't get it. Don't waste your time. Weary (None) - Posts: 249 - 10/10/2016 10:44:49 1924408 Link
How much do the GAA need Dublin? What impact would disenfrachising Dublin have of the actual coffers? What impact would it have on the GAA profile and coffers if it didnt cultivate a third of the population? In brass tacks terms, is the over all health of the GAA as an organisation and the games it promotes better served by a strong profile in its biggest market, from a commercial and marketing point of view the game has never been stronger and its profile modernised to a degree. Like it or not the success of the Dublin football team has given the GAA the oppurtunity to make in roads into its biggest market. Broadly the GAA is a healthier place as an over all organisation when a third of the population are living for the next Dublin outing, should they not cultivate that to make the Association stronger or should they disenfrachise it to make rural areas that bit stronger? In business what would you do? Therefore any change will be minor at best. My own opinion, is that any change should benifit the most compelling under performing counties in Division 2 and down and based on strategic plans, the white elephant culture of rural GAA needs reviewing, centres of exellence etc are vanity projects. The likes of Dublin, Mayo, Kerry, Galway, Kildare, Meath and Cork well sponsored, well supported counties shouldnt see any increase in funds or expect it. TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 10/10/2016 11:03:36 1924419 Link
Replying To keithlemon: "I think you're on to something KingdomBoy I think we need to a new test to check which players are manufactured and which ones are organic. If any players has a hint of being 'financially doped' they should be given a lifetime ban Seanie Johnstone better look out!!" Dublin started winning minor and U21s around 2010 so it has to have something to do with the money! Before that ye hadn't won much and how many players from those minor and U21 teams are on yer senior team and panel now I'd say a good few. Do ye know what , people outside of Kerry might not like us very much but at least what we've won has been with out help from crokepark. KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 10/10/2016 11:07:35 1924424 Link
Replying To KingdomBoy1: "Dublin started winning minor and U21s around 2010 so it has to have something to do with the money! Before that ye hadn't won much and how many players from those minor and U21 teams are on yer senior team and panel now I'd say a good few. Do ye know what , people outside of Kerry might not like us very much but at least what we've won has been with out help from crokepark." Exactly, how on earth could Dublin have won anything without money? Poor auld Kerry don't get enough respect at all keithlemon (Australia) - Posts: 920 - 10/10/2016 11:12:51 1924427 Link
Replying To KingdomBoy1: "Dublin started winning minor and U21s around 2010 so it has to have something to do with the money! Before that ye hadn't won much and how many players from those minor and U21 teams are on yer senior team and panel now I'd say a good few. Do ye know what , people outside of Kerry might not like us very much but at least what we've won has been with out help from crokepark." By any chance is your name Lionel Hutz KingdomBoy? "We've got lots of hearsay and conjecture.....those are kindsa evidence!!" keithlemon (Australia) - Posts: 920 - 10/10/2016 11:22:14 1924433 Link