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Financial Doping in the GAA

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Replying To JayP: "Ah jasus lad you aren't still peddling this nonsense!" Jp I'm not pedalling anything . I'm telling ye the information I'm reading and ye can do what ye want with that info, but I won't let ye just brush it under the carpet . This is not acceptable . KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 25/10/2016 19:53:36 1928992 Link
Replying To alano12: "so if u havent read it how can you form an opinion on it?" I'm talking of the balls.ie article, that references it. The information in that is misleading. That was the article included in the OP. "He's [Pauric Duffy] overseen the biggest case of doping in modern Irish sport. The financial doping that destroyed Leinster and is now destroying our greatest tournament. By now we know the figures. Last year after a long and similar trend the GAA handed over €1,460,400 to the capital in a games development grant, more than any province combined with only one other county getting even six figures. That is before the €1 million a year special grant given over via the taxpayer and the Irish Sports Council. That is before we get to the fact that their population not only means a player base that dwarfs all others, but it also means a market that allows its sponsorship to dwarf all others." That snippet from his article is frankly just bluster. 1.5m of the 8.5m spent in Ireland is far from extortionate spending on Dublin. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4232 - 25/10/2016 22:39:59 1929023 Link
Replying To Whammo86: "I'm talking of the balls.ie article, that references it. The information in that is misleading. That was the article included in the OP. "He's [Pauric Duffy overseen the biggest case of doping in modern Irish sport. The financial doping that destroyed Leinster and is now destroying our greatest tournament. By now we know the figures. Last year after a long and similar trend the GAA handed over €1,460,400 to the capital in a games development grant, more than any province combined with only one other county getting even six figures. That is before the €1 million a year special grant given over via the taxpayer and the Irish Sports Council. That is before we get to the fact that their population not only means a player base that dwarfs all others, but it also means a market that allows its sponsorship to dwarf all others." That snippet from his article is frankly just bluster. 1.5m of the 8.5m spent in Ireland is far from extortionate spending on Dublin."]Champions are there for others to throw stones at. It's part of the process. We enjoy the process. TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 25/10/2016 23:24:06 1929032 Link
Replying To Whammo86: "I'm talking of the balls.ie article, that references it. The information in that is misleading. That was the article included in the OP. "He's [Pauric Duffy overseen the biggest case of doping in modern Irish sport. The financial doping that destroyed Leinster and is now destroying our greatest tournament. By now we know the figures. Last year after a long and similar trend the GAA handed over €1,460,400 to the capital in a games development grant, more than any province combined with only one other county getting even six figures. That is before the €1 million a year special grant given over via the taxpayer and the Irish Sports Council. That is before we get to the fact that their population not only means a player base that dwarfs all others, but it also means a market that allows its sponsorship to dwarf all others." That snippet from his article is frankly just bluster. 1.5m of the 8.5m spent in Ireland is far from extortionate spending on Dublin."]well im talking about mckenna article which would be far more reputable than some click bait website alano12 (Dublin) - Posts: 2208 - 25/10/2016 23:44:45 1929035 Link
Replying To alano12: "the likes of mayo and donegal also make plenty for the gaa..it has 0 to do with what happens...we arent exactly selling out croke park every game" "I can't see any reason why this information is not clearly released in the public domain every year. " But it is - the problem here is that people are too lasy to look, so instead we get muppets who haven't got a clue publish or rehash bits and pieces of information and this in turn forms the basis of this thread. The Dublin GAA publishes online its annual accounts. A simple search will find them The GAA publishes its annual accounts a simple search will find them The Sports Council of Ireland publishes its annual accounts A simple search will find them The AIG sponsoship deal with Dublin a simple search will find it You can then read through it and make up your own mind. Irish Sports Council money/grants are only ear-marked for specific disadvantaged areas/projects GPOs - are part employed by both clubs/GAA - to actually promote the games were nearly 1.25 million people live - this is you know like just to get young kids to play GAA spoorts! not to buy trips to La manga for Inter-county players. BTW if you look at "Dublin" Club GPOs many of them are hurlers/footballers from outside the county. AIG money is spread very thinly over a vast need (5 codes) in the capitol to even try and maintain the current level of participation. There is NO money available for capitol projects - like centres of excellence, decent county ground or supporting/improving club/county playing infrastructures. Clubs have to break even - financially, none are supported by GAA or County board - exceptions are those specifically targetted by the Irish Sports council - who are in disadvantaged areas. So called "Super clubs" like St Vincents, Na Fianna, Cuala, Ballyboden, Lucan, Kilmacud (too name a few examples) don't have "super" facilites, Na Fianna owns ONE pitch everything else is owned by schools, councils etc and the same applies to most clubs. Clubhouses have been built by the members for the members. There would be more Ballyboden weekend fixtures than a lot of counties, this is done by volunteers - same as every other club in Ireland, no special grants, no special favours and no special thanks. And then to think we have to answer to what is basically financial ignorance and sheer laziness. arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4897 - 26/10/2016 09:04:48 1929045 Link
Ok arock, if this information is so easy to find put it up here for us all to see. When I started posting on this I tried searching for information on the funding Dublin gets through the Dublin GAA website but all I can find is the PDF of the 2015 Annual Report which does not contain any financial information on grants etc. So much of this information does seem to be hidden. The only information that is easy to get hold of is the figures of overall development funding which are on the GAA's 2015 Financial Report that you can get a PDF of. These same figures are the ones used in McKenna's article and they are the figures being discussed on here. Now taking my own county of Kerry, according to this we get €42,600 in direct development funding. The GAA maintains that counties like Kerry are also given development funding indirectly through the overall €1.191 million grant given the the Munster Council. Even if that 1.191 million is divided evenly over the 6 counties you are talking at most around €241,000 going to Kerry. That's in contrast to the €1.46 million going to Dublin. Interestingly Padraic Duffy talking in relation to the distribution of finances in the GAA's 2015 Annual Report wrote the following: 'Dublin enjoys a much higher level of current funding from Central Council than any other county, it enjoys vastly greater commercial revenues than other counties, it incurs lower costs in terms of players' travelling expenses to games and training than all other counties and it has a far greater fundraising capacity than most'. So he is basically saying the same thing many posters on here are saying Dublin are benefiting far more than every other province, never mind county, from development grants despite the amount of advantages in terms of finances they already enjoy. What's interesting is that Duffy on the one hand acknowledges this but on the other is content to preside over such a system. A level and transparent playing field in terms of central funding, that's all everyone is looking for. Surely the Dublin posters on here can agree with that sentiment. Surely such an idea is at the core of the much vaunted amateur ethos of the GAA? TheHermit (Kerry) - Posts: 6354 - 26/10/2016 11:12:52 1929092 Link
I am a galway man with no Dublin connections. I think because of their size they obviously need to get a larger slice of the pie based on per capita. I agree some balancing needs to be done as because of the size other substantial income streams are open to them. However I have to say they seem to spend it in a well structured, planned strategic manner and that should be applauded. Not sure if any of you saw the report on how the hurling grants were spent by some Leinster counties?? It was laughable. You could trust these county boards with a penny! Any extra funds that are divvied out by Croker should have strings attached. It should be for specific objectives on the back of a professional plan, with milestone payments. They should also use the funds to buy support for key reforms within the gaa. i.e. If a county does not agree to a fixture calendar etc they get no funds. i.e. Things that should be simple no brainers but seem to be impossible to implement in the GAA. Mayonman (Galway) - Posts: 1833 - 26/10/2016 11:51:02 1929105 Link
Dublin should get a reduction as the revenue streams now available to Dublin GAA through it's own actions have increased since the original proposal for funding, that was sought and secured by the Dublin CB. Dublin being the largest population and by far the largest urban area in Ireland, will still receive more funding than any other county and rightly so, but a 20-30% reduction could now be sustained compared to 2005 I'd support that But lads don't expect any miracles, it's not that much money and Dublin can simply plug it. There are far greater problems at play that are completely out of the hands of the GAA 20-30% coming back into the pot will have little impact in benefiting weaker counties. The focus purely on money and questioning the amateur ethos of such, when said money is benefiting the greater participation of amateur volunteers into the organisation is odd, money has to be spent in order for our amateur sport to exist in the first place. Growing participation will secure our amateur ethos, and that takes investment. We are about to see our sports sold to RTE / Sky for €55,000,000!! How exactly is that in anyway keeping with a supposed amateur ethos? Posters who are talking about the "amateur ethos" have no trouble with their own counties spending millions it seems, well above many other counties and sure under the current structure that is happening right across the board. North, South, East and West. Surely if things are to be truly equal, then you have to take ownership of your own advantages over other counties, all revenue streams have to be considered, all counties have a big part to play. Until that happens then this argument is null and void, as until equality applies to all equally, only then can we have a perfect system. Good luck with that. Many counties have advantages over other counties Dublin just sits at the top of that current structure Pointing the finger while enjoying your own advantages is a bit of a contradiction and makes the whole "equality" logic used in this argument seem very loose indeed. It's probably impossible to ever have an equal GAA world, simply because it never has been anyway, and the entire landscape of this country has completely changed since the foundation of the GAA and it will continue to change in favour of urban areas. That is down to socio-economic reasons way out of the control of the GAA Sure let's see a 20-30% reduction, when that has zero impact at Inter County level Once again.. then what? Someone will always have a geographical advantage, one county will always have a greater population, one county will always have an advantage over another, just like it's always been. jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 26/10/2016 13:08:34 1929141 Link
1.5m of the 8.5m spent in Ireland is far from extortionate spending on Dublin. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts:1110 - 25/10/2016 22:39:59 1929023 ------- You're 100% right, no it's not. But Dublin GAA can afford to increase it's own input Take 20% off that figure You have 1.2m out of 8.8m Would that make you happier lads? Because you cant expect the GAA not to invests in the largest urban area in the country and into a county that generates many more millions about everyone else for the organisation. jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 26/10/2016 13:34:28 1929154 Link
All neutrals want is fairness and equality, is that too much to ask for in 2016? HurlingWarrior (Limerick) - Posts: 61 - 26/10/2016 13:35:38 1929156 Link
Replying To HurlingWarrior: "All neutrals want is fairness and equality, is that too much to ask for in 2016?" It's never been that way Plus What a bloody easy thing to say, ignoring so many variables. How about throwing in world peace while you're at it :) jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 26/10/2016 13:46:16 1929161 Link
Replying To HurlingWarrior: "All neutrals want is fairness and equality, is that too much to ask for in 2016?" As Brian Potter said "I want to moon walk son but life's a st" keithlemon (Australia)** - Posts: 920 - 26/10/2016 14:22:33 1929178 Link
Replying To keithlemon: "As Brian Potter said "I want to moon walk son but life's a st"" I suppose it's easy to say things like that Keith when it your county that has gotten 16 million in development funding since 2005. Jimbo says other counties have advantages over smaller counties ( I take it he means us in Kerry ) our senior team had nowhere in our own county to train last winter so they had to travel to UL in limerick and the mallow complex in cork. anything we ever got in Kerry we earned from our own hard work. Dublin can't say the same. KingdomBoy1 (Kerry)** - Posts: 14092 - 26/10/2016 15:18:48 1929213 Link
Replying To KingdomBoy1: "I suppose it's easy to say things like that Keith when it your county that has gotten 16 million in development funding since 2005. Jimbo says other counties have advantages over smaller counties ( I take it he means us in Kerry ) our senior team had nowhere in our own county to train last winter so they had to travel to UL in limerick and the mallow complex in cork. anything we ever got in Kerry we earned from our own hard work. Dublin can't say the same." Actually it's just easy to say that when people come out with profound crp like that But please continue and tell us more about the plight of the 37 time winners Kerry keithlemon (Australia)* - Posts: 920 - 26/10/2016 16:40:22 1929245 Link
Replying To keithlemon: "Actually it's just easy to say that when people come out with profound crp like that But please continue and tell us more about the plight of the 37 time winners Kerry" Are you a Dub? I always thought you were of country side origin jimbodub (Dublin)* - Posts: 20600 - 26/10/2016 16:54:40 1929254 Link
Replying To KingdomBoy1: "I suppose it's easy to say things like that Keith when it your county that has gotten 16 million in development funding since 2005. Jimbo says other counties have advantages over smaller counties ( I take it he means us in Kerry ) our senior team had nowhere in our own county to train last winter so they had to travel to UL in limerick and the mallow complex in cork. anything we ever got in Kerry we earned from our own hard work. Dublin can't say the same." I think this highlights some of the problem here. Counties compete with each other within the GAA but the GAA is also competing with other sports. Would it be crazy for the FAI to be investing 17% of its development money in Dublin. I don't think it would be, this is what the GAA is competing with. Given the growth of Dublin in population terms (particularly young population terms) I think the GAA would have been asleep at the wheel if it hadn't looked to get a better presence in the capital. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4232 - 26/10/2016 16:59:05 1929258 Link
Replying To keithlemon: "Actually it's just easy to say that when people come out with profound crp like that But please continue and tell us more about the plight of the 37 time winners Kerry" What does the fact that they have won 37 AI's have anything to financial inequity and fairness in situ for the last decade? Typical spin doctoring and deflection tactics from the Dubs again HurlingWarrior (Limerick)* - Posts: 61 - 26/10/2016 17:06:46 1929263 Link
Replying To Whammo86: "I think this highlights some of the problem here. Counties compete with each other within the GAA but the GAA is also competing with other sports. Would it be crazy for the FAI to be investing 17% of its development money in Dublin. I don't think it would be, this is what the GAA is competing with. Given the growth of Dublin in population terms (particularly young population terms) I think the GAA would have been asleep at the wheel if it hadn't looked to get a better presence in the capital." Especially considering the decades long approach of almost completely ignoring games development in our capital Listen this is slowly descending into a farce of a debate The same things are being repeated Even when I say a reduction is warranted now it gets down thumbed jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 26/10/2016 17:09:22 1929265 Link
The focus purely on money and questioning the amateur ethos of such, when said money is benefiting the greater participation of amateur volunteers into the organisation is very odd indeed, money has to be spent in order for our amateur sport to exist in the first place. Growing participation will secure our amateur ethos, and that takes investment. jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 26/10/2016 17:11:56 1929268 Link
Replying To jimbodub: "Are you a Dub? I always thought you were of country side origin" Very much so jimbo, I'm not from the Pale at all, merely working in it Maybe it's because I'm talking common sense that the other posters have made that mistake keithlemon (Australia) - Posts: 920 - 26/10/2016 19:12:18 1929304 Link