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Financial Doping in the GAA

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I blame Ewan McKenna! :) Jackeen (Dublin) - Posts: 4097 - 14/10/2016 14:25:23 1926249 Link
Replying To Jackeen: "I blame Ewan McKenna! :)" I for one would like to congratulate him He's helped make an awful lot of posters on this thread look like right gombeens :) jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 14/10/2016 14:32:18 1926256 Link
From page 1: This is unreal if the numbers are true https://www.balls.ie/gaa/gaa-investment-in-dublin/348120 Turns out not to be "unreal" Step down off the mass hysteria platform now folks! Now lets talk about the €40,000,000 Cork are getting for a white elephant stadium that will sit empty for 85% of the year Would that money not be better spent on addressing the issue of fairness and equality seen in the current GAA model? Imagine what a transformational impact that sort of money could have for rural GAA clubs Surely it's time to start talking about this topic, now that the above BS article has been completely discredited jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 14/10/2016 14:39:30 1926260 Link
Replying To Jackeen: "I blame Ewan McKenna! :)" Hahaha jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 14/10/2016 14:40:29 1926261 Link
The county with the largest population are getting the most money and have the most successful mens football team, their ladies are top two, their senior hurlers are now very competitive, top 8 I'd say but open to correction. As the other envious counties do we ? A. Bang our heads in despair at such seemingly unfair monetary advantages. Sure what chance have we, they could win 10 All Irelands in a row? Let's just give up. Or B. Observe that clearly the Dubs are getting bang for their buck. Even if we're on a lesser scale there are lessons for us to learn for how they use their resources. I don't know at all but I imagine there is accountability for their resources and time being allocated. Be it from an U14 that hasn't won games for years improving and winning three games in a summer to Galvin's men winning two in a row. Seems targets are being set and achieved and if not they are reviewed to see what could have been improved. Throwing money at something won't fix it if dedicated people, often volunteers, don't work hard to try and get the most for that money. Maybe other counties can improve by observing what the Dubs are doing to get the improvement results they get. What were the levels of the Dublin mens, ladies and their hurlers 6 years ago? Not where it's at right now for definite. We can complain all we like about their funding. Or we can try adapting what we do with the funding we have. GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7352 - 14/10/2016 15:03:49 1926270 Link
Replying To GreenandRed: "The county with the largest population are getting the most money and have the most successful mens football team, their ladies are top two, their senior hurlers are now very competitive, top 8 I'd say but open to correction. As the other envious counties do we ? A. Bang our heads in despair at such seemingly unfair monetary advantages. Sure what chance have we, they could win 10 All Irelands in a row? Let's just give up. Or B. Observe that clearly the Dubs are getting bang for their buck. Even if we're on a lesser scale there are lessons for us to learn for how they use their resources. I don't know at all but I imagine there is accountability for their resources and time being allocated. Be it from an U14 that hasn't won games for years improving and winning three games in a summer to Galvin's men winning two in a row. Seems targets are being set and achieved and if not they are reviewed to see what could have been improved. Throwing money at something won't fix it if dedicated people, often volunteers, don't work hard to try and get the most for that money. Maybe other counties can improve by observing what the Dubs are doing to get the improvement results they get. What were the levels of the Dublin mens, ladies and their hurlers 6 years ago? Not where it's at right now for definite. We can complain all we like about their funding. Or we can try adapting what we do with the funding we have." Fair play GreenandRed, for once a logical reading of what's what. This debate could run for months if something exciting doesn't happen soon in the GAA, and all it will be is 'you got this and we got that'. At the end of the day it is relating to one, and only one strand of GAA funding, games development, and the majority of funding for this will naturally go to the Counties with a proven structure in place in both terms of accountability of money received and results gained. As you said it's the fact that Dublin have put in place a very structured and well monitored target based system that is the big difference, and those targets aren't necessarily winning All Irelands or world domination, in some areas its simply trying to establish the game and help clubs field teams in areas that could be deemed GAA wastelands. The reason some Dublin posters might be taking exception to some of the posts on the thread is that all the focus is on development grants as though that is the only kind of monies available from the GAA.if ALL funding was to be taken into account ( structural, Capital grants etc.) then perhaps a reasoned debate could take place, but it's very hard to be told the system isn't fair to us by people from Counties that have received large amounts to restructure loans, bail out incapable County boards or to fund developments of grounds or centres of excellence. AHP (Dublin) - Posts: 323 - 14/10/2016 15:28:24 1926281 Link
Well said GreenandRed, you said what I've been trying to get across much clearer than I managed! JoeSoap (Donegal) - Posts: 1432 - 14/10/2016 16:15:53 1926301 Link
Yes we shouldn't be complaining about Dublin getting 1 million of tax payer's money a year since 2005 from the Irish Sports council, having a sports campus/training facility built in their county free of charge, getting development grants funded above every province and according to national newspapers more than the rest of the country and overseas combined one year. Sure nevermind about the commercial partners giving Dublin what no other county would be able to get near. The Dubs are one thing. It's in their interest to maintain the charade that there is fair play in the GAA. But the (I won't use bad names) from around the country saying that we shouldn't be moaning are something else. Look, fair play to Dublin, they have used the money extremely well, have modernised the sport and their players are good examples to kids but the arguments on here that Dublin weren't given special treatment for the past 10 years must be written by people under the influence of drugs or hypnotism. realman2 (Kildare) - Posts: 464 - 14/10/2016 17:32:39 1926317 Link
GreenandRed You talk about looking at Dublin's methods and copying them. That is just totally impractical for many reasons. It's like saying to your local grocer why not just copy and do what Tesco, Dunnes Stores are doing and you'll be just as profitable. When as anyone with any bit of cop on knows that is impossible given resources available. Same logic applies here. Do you not think there are committed volunteers in the rest of the country or something? Over a long period of time massive funding can't but make a distance especially considering the vast differences in manpower as well. If the DCB were incompetent and unorganised maybe the likes of Kerry,Mayo & Tyrone could exploit a market inefficiency but that clearly isn't the case, they clearly know how to utilise all their advantages over the others. It is up to the GAA to bring about some fair play otherwise the AI Series will end up the way of the Dodo and the Leinster Championship in the not too distant future HurlingWarrior (Limerick) - Posts: 61 - 14/10/2016 18:03:29 1926321 Link
Replying To HurlingWarrior: "GreenandRed You talk about looking at Dublin's methods and copying them. That is just totally impractical for many reasons. It's like saying to your local grocer why not just copy and do what Tesco, Dunnes Stores are doing and you'll be just as profitable. When as anyone with any bit of cop on knows that is impossible given resources available. Same logic applies here. Do you not think there are committed volunteers in the rest of the country or something? Over a long period of time massive funding can't but make a distance especially considering the vast differences in manpower as well. If the DCB were incompetent and unorganised maybe the likes of Kerry,Mayo & Tyrone could exploit a market inefficiency but that clearly isn't the case, they clearly know how to utilise all their advantages over the others. It is up to the GAA to bring about some fair play otherwise the AI Series will end up the way of the Dodo and the Leinster Championship in the not too distant future" So in the meantime just blame this inequality on Dublin's success. Don't do anything to see how they're so succesful and try to do something similar or even improve on it. Are you gonna do something proactive to make the GAA make it equal money for all counties in the absolute certainty that when every county has a fair share based on population we'll have a much fairer league and championship? GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7352 - 14/10/2016 19:29:26 1926338 Link
I don't suppose there's any of the breakdown of finances in relation to the number of schoolkids per county? I mean if there's financial figures based on the amount of registered players per county then it should be easy enough to work out how many unregistered kids there is in each county. After all that's one of main objectives of having games development officers - going into schools and getting children involved in the sport. It's hardly as if all the money is just spent on people already involved in the GAA, if you've a county with a bigger number of unregistered players or areas with low participation rates then surely it makes sense to invest more money there? It was mentioned on here before that Dublin had roughly 50 GDO's, working off similar ratios for schools and schoolchildren Kildare would need about 10. I don't have the figures at hand but up till a few years ago Kildare had a similar enough number of schoolchildren to Dun Laoghaire Rathdown if that gives a bit of a comparison to work with. Hopefully the increased level of funding will go a long way towards improving things here, one of the youngest populations (as do Meath) in the country as well so it makes sense for an increased level of funding directed towards underage structures. In contrast, at the time of the 2011 census Mayo and Kerry had 2 of the oldest populations in the country. On a related topic the Camogie Association were advertising recently for a participation officer who would operate in both counties as well so that's a very positive step forward too if it does happen. Hopefully it doesn't taint any future All Ireland's either of us might win. if_in_doubt (Kildare) - Posts: 3685 - 14/10/2016 20:54:44 1926352 Link
So in the meantime just blame this inequality on Dublin's success. Don't do anything to see how they're so succesful and try to do something similar or even improve on it. Are you gonna do something proactive to make the GAA make it equal money for all counties in the absolute certainty that when every county has a fair share based on population we'll have a much fairer league and championship? GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts:2908 - 14/10/2016 Nah people are just gonna ask questions on here. I mean what's the point in putting the same questions to their own club officials or county delegates? It's not as if that might see changes introduced at a provincial or national level. Dublin get more money than anybody else, obviously it's up to their fans to justify this. if_in_doubt (Kildare) - Posts: 3685 - 14/10/2016 20:59:52 1926354 Link
Figures can be spun how you see fit, taking Dublin and Kerry as examples: There are 147.000 people in Kerry, the Kerry county board spent 653.101 euro last year. There are 1.345,402 in Dublin the Dublin county board spent 2,098,960 euro. I used Kerry and Dublin as examples as both have dominated underage in recent years, financial doping indeed. Morality and equity. TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 14/10/2016 21:49:21 1926367 Link
Replying To if_in_doubt: "So in the meantime just blame this inequality on Dublin's success. Don't do anything to see how they're so succesful and try to do something similar or even improve on it. Are you gonna do something proactive to make the GAA make it equal money for all counties in the absolute certainty that when every county has a fair share based on population we'll have a much fairer league and championship? GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts:2908 - 14/10/2016 Nah people are just gonna ask questions on here. I mean what's the point in putting the same questions to their own club officials or county delegates? It's not as if that might see changes introduced at a provincial or national level. Dublin get more money than anybody else, obviously it's up to their fans to justify this." If in doubt How you aren't over on jumbos white elephant thread telling him to go to his county board with his problem? And why aren't you over on the Kerry got a handy provincial draw thread telling knoxboya to go to his county board with his problem? Why are those threads any different to this thread or any other thread really? KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 14/10/2016 22:15:00 1926373 Link
Replying To GreenandRed: " Replying To HurlingWarrior: "GreenandRed You talk about looking at Dublin's methods and copying them. That is just totally impractical for many reasons. It's like saying to your local grocer why not just copy and do what Tesco, Dunnes Stores are doing and you'll be just as profitable. When as anyone with any bit of cop on knows that is impossible given resources available. Same logic applies here. Do you not think there are committed volunteers in the rest of the country or something? Over a long period of time massive funding can't but make a distance especially considering the vast differences in manpower as well. If the DCB were incompetent and unorganised maybe the likes of Kerry,Mayo & Tyrone could exploit a market inefficiency but that clearly isn't the case, they clearly know how to utilise all their advantages over the others. It is up to the GAA to bring about some fair play otherwise the AI Series will end up the way of the Dodo and the Leinster Championship in the not too distant future" So in the meantime just blame this inequality on Dublin's success. Don't do anything to see how they're so succesful and try to do something similar or even improve on it. Are you gonna do something proactive to make the GAA make it equal money for all counties in the absolute certainty that when every county has a fair share based on population we'll have a much fairer league and championship?" true but something needs to be done about it and that is a major issue more than saying things like be 'proactive'..it hasnt been a level playing field for a lot of the weaker counties alano12 (Dublin) - Posts: 2208 - 14/10/2016 23:17:21 1926385 Link
Replying To alano12: " Replying To GreenandRed: "[quote=HurlingWarrior: "GreenandRed You talk about looking at Dublin's methods and copying them. That is just totally impractical for many reasons. It's like saying to your local grocer why not just copy and do what Tesco, Dunnes Stores are doing and you'll be just as profitable. When as anyone with any bit of cop on knows that is impossible given resources available. Same logic applies here. Do you not think there are committed volunteers in the rest of the country or something? Over a long period of time massive funding can't but make a distance especially considering the vast differences in manpower as well. If the DCB were incompetent and unorganised maybe the likes of Kerry,Mayo & Tyrone could exploit a market inefficiency but that clearly isn't the case, they clearly know how to utilise all their advantages over the others. It is up to the GAA to bring about some fair play otherwise the AI Series will end up the way of the Dodo and the Leinster Championship in the not too distant future" So in the meantime just blame this inequality on Dublin's success. Don't do anything to see how they're so succesful and try to do something similar or even improve on it. Are you gonna do something proactive to make the GAA make it equal money for all counties in the absolute certainty that when every county has a fair share based on population we'll have a much fairer league and championship?" true but something needs to be done about it and that is a major issue more than saying things like be 'proactive'..it hasnt been a level playing field for a lot of the weaker counties"]Of course something needs to be done but if we're not proactive and do nothing about it things will remain the same. Now I've no idea how they could do that, trying a motion at Congress, a player walkout, I don't know. But it won't change until something is done. But in the meantime rather than be apathetic about our chances of success because The Dubs are so good we should try everything we have to bridge the gap. Sitting back and putting it all down to money will get us nowhere. Even if it was a financially equitable system there will still be a gap. Luckily for Donegal and Kerry being very smart on lesser budgets they found ways to lift the Sam in this era of a great Dublin team. GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7352 - 15/10/2016 10:08:25 1926419 Link
GnR You are totally missing the point It's not possible to translate Dublin's methods for success as they have a number of key factors which nobody else comes close to in scale I mean you don't see Ireland near the top of the medal table at the Olympics alongside the USA or Team GB, do you? Indeed, Team GB's resurgence has been greatly aided by enormous investment in certain sports while those that haven't received much funding has garnered a lot less/no medals link In particular the British indoor cycling team blows the myth that substantial funding in relation to its competitors over a long period of time doesn't make a massive difference out of the water ''It's a brutal regime, but it's as crude as it is effective'' HurlingWarrior (Limerick) - Posts: 61 - 15/10/2016 12:08:07 1926436 Link
Replying To HurlingWarrior: "GnR You are totally missing the point It's not possible to translate Dublin's methods for success as they have a number of key factors which nobody else comes close to in scale I mean you don't see Ireland near the top of the medal table at the Olympics alongside the USA or Team GB, do you? Indeed, Team GB's resurgence has been greatly aided by enormous investment in certain sports while those that haven't received much funding has garnered a lot less/no medals link In particular the British indoor cycling team blows the myth that substantial funding in relation to its competitors over a long period of time doesn't make a massive difference out of the water ''It's a brutal regime, but it's as crude as it is effective''" Was there always this inequality HurlingWarrior or did this only happen when Dublin started receiving these development funds? keithlemon (Australia) - Posts: 920 - 15/10/2016 13:11:20 1926445 Link
Replying To HurlingWarrior: "GnR You are totally missing the point It's not possible to translate Dublin's methods for success as they have a number of key factors which nobody else comes close to in scale I mean you don't see Ireland near the top of the medal table at the Olympics alongside the USA or Team GB, do you? Indeed, Team GB's resurgence has been greatly aided by enormous investment in certain sports while those that haven't received much funding has garnered a lot less/no medals link In particular the British indoor cycling team blows the myth that substantial funding in relation to its competitors over a long period of time doesn't make a massive difference out of the water ''It's a brutal regime, but it's as crude as it is effective''" The British indoor cycling success can be used for either side of the arguement, does it prove that funding makes all the difference or does it prove that targeted work is what is required. They chose a sport, put a lot of work into it, even if that work was 'crude' as you quote, and reaped rewards. You say we don't see Ireland at the top of the medals table because we lack funding, but when the work and coaching was put into the high performance boxing team we matched or beat Countries that we couldn't touch financially on the medals table. It's the chicken and egg argument, does the funding come first or the structures to create success. The point GreenandRed is making, I think, is that instead of waiting for someone to wave a magic wand and fix their problems, Counties should do as much as they can themselves to create an environment that will breed success. AHP (Dublin) - Posts: 323 - 15/10/2016 13:20:07 1926446 Link
Replying To HurlingWarrior: "GnR You are totally missing the point It's not possible to translate Dublin's methods for success as they have a number of key factors which nobody else comes close to in scale I mean you don't see Ireland near the top of the medal table at the Olympics alongside the USA or Team GB, do you? Indeed, Team GB's resurgence has been greatly aided by enormous investment in certain sports while those that haven't received much funding has garnered a lot less/no medals link In particular the British indoor cycling team blows the myth that substantial funding in relation to its competitors over a long period of time doesn't make a massive difference out of the water ''It's a brutal regime, but it's as crude as it is effective''" So we should all lie down and give up and let the Dubs keep on winning cos they've more money? Just to be clear that's what you're saying? Should the Ireland Olympics budget be similar to countries with about 20 and 80 times our population? Should we stop going to Olympic games because other countries have better resources. Should Stephen Kenny tell his Dundalk team to stay at home this week because Zenith are building a billion euro stadium ? I think not. I think that many will rise to an even greater challenge. Tomás O'Sé in this morning's Indo - http://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/toms-s-the-counties-whining-about-dublins-advantages-are-missing-the-point-entirely-35132361.html GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7352 - 15/10/2016 13:48:42 1926447 Link