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It's farcical stuff and you have to feel for the Dublin team
Incredibly unfair on them as lets be honest here, both teams scored the same amount of points
Dublin had the better of the first half and Cork had the better of the 2nd half
Only difference is Cork had all their points counted!
A replay would be the right thing to do but it's not going to happen
It's hard to congratulate Cork TBH, but they did play very well in the 2nd half and built up a deserved lead, so I credit them for that, but their "win" is tainted as they didn't win. They won a flukey AI there.
There really should be a replay, but unfortunately common-sense doesn't apply
So the Dublin players will just have to try and use it as motivation, they have a young team that is progressing, hopefully they will come back again.
jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 26/09/2016 15:16:03
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Yes its unfair - yes its unfortunate but to me it is a case of hard luck and a case of a poor decision by an official
I don't get the argument as to why this is different to any other incorrect decision which relates to an error of judgment - Ok maybe some penalties are open to debate and interpretation but there are countless incidents that can happen in a game that can be verified by video - Over-carrying, playing the ball on the ground(in mens), Square ball, A trip, A footblock, Ball over the goal line, 45's - If there is no pre-agreed technology to provide for judging the incident for that game on that ground (e.g hawkeye) then teams are playing the game knowing that they are at the mercy of an official's opinion
To me the only cause for a replay is if the error by the referee is not one of judgment at the point in time but one of absolute fact (e.g incorrect scoreboard/not playing 70 minutes, allowing more than 15 players on the field) If a white flag was raised and he didn't count it by error that would be an error of fact not one of judgment
ruanua (Donegal) - Posts: 4966 - 26/09/2016 15:39:23
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To be honest if hawkeye was even in use would it have been referred to??? One umpire waved it wide, the other didn't argue and the referee agreed so. A horrendous umpiring decision but how often have we seen that before. The LGFA's reasoning for not employing hawkeye at their games is rubbish though, if they want their games played in the country's best stadium then they should employ the best facilities therein
Richieq (Meath) - Posts: 3734 - 26/09/2016 15:45:02
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I think you would have more grounds for this game to be replayed than the laois v Armagh qualifier this year. In that game the official doing fourth official was to blame for allowing an extra substitution take place, the substitution had no impact on the course of the game but the game was ordered to be replayed.
in this instance an official again made a mistake by incorrectly not allowing a score and this time the mistake did have an impact on the scoreline so for me it would be up to the lgfa not Dublin or Cork to make a decision like the gaa did in the laois armagh game
hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 26/09/2016 16:16:21
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Replying To waynoI: "The people who are claiming there shouldn't be a replay because Dublin should have put over some of their wides make me laugh.
Maybe Dublin could have been out of sight. Maybe the SHOULD have ben out of sight. That's not the point.
Cork SCORED 1-07.. Dublin SCORED 1-07. The game was a draw.
The ladies county board have released a statement saying they wont appeal. That's very harsh on the girls who've bust their backsides off all year to be denied a chance of a replay.
Its almost as if the DLCB are coming out and trying to win the public over by not appealing and having people congratulate them for being brilliant sports and just taking it on the chin. B******s, They should be doing everything in their power to give their girls a chance again.
They didn't lose the game. They didn't win it either.....But they certainly didn't lose it." You are 100% correct. The chances and possession Dublin had are irrelevant. Dublin scored a point and it was waved wide and lost a low scoring game by 1 point. There should be a replay. If there is no replay there should be an asterix beside the 2016 All Ireland Ladies Title *Both teams scores equal but Cork awarded the title due to umpire error. It will be similar to 2010 Leinster Championship.
jj72 (Kildare) - Posts: 53 - 26/09/2016 16:17:29
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Replying To hill16no1man: "I think you would have more grounds for this game to be replayed than the laois v Armagh qualifier this year. In that game the official doing fourth official was to blame for allowing an extra substitution take place, the substitution had no impact on the course of the game but the game was ordered to be replayed.
in this instance an official again made a mistake by incorrectly not allowing a score and this time the mistake did have an impact on the scoreline so for me it would be up to the lgfa not Dublin or Cork to make a decision like the gaa did in the laois armagh game" In Laois Armagh, the Laois management have to take a huge slice of the blame. They were the guys who put on the extra sub. We had this discussion at the time and I remember finding out that keeping track of a teams substitions was not part of the officials duties.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4226 - 26/09/2016 16:36:45
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Replying To jj72: "You are 100% correct. The chances and possession Dublin had are irrelevant. Dublin scored a point and it was waved wide and lost a low scoring game by 1 point. There should be a replay. If there is no replay there should be an asterix beside the 2016 All Ireland Ladies Title *Both teams scores equal but Cork awarded the title due to umpire error. It will be similar to 2010 Leinster Championship." And the 1928 All-Ireland Final
Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12120 - 26/09/2016 16:42:01
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Replying To hill16no1man: "I think you would have more grounds for this game to be replayed than the laois v Armagh qualifier this year. In that game the official doing fourth official was to blame for allowing an extra substitution take place, the substitution had no impact on the course of the game but the game was ordered to be replayed.
in this instance an official again made a mistake by incorrectly not allowing a score and this time the mistake did have an impact on the scoreline so for me it would be up to the lgfa not Dublin or Cork to make a decision like the gaa did in the laois armagh game" Unfortunately there is no provision in the rule book for what happened yesterday. There is a provision for using too many subs therefore I replay could be granted during the summer.
It's unfair on the Dublin team, as well as the Cork team who'll forever have a question mark after 2016's win, but often life is not fair.
MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13710 - 26/09/2016 16:45:24
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Replying To jj72: "You are 100% correct. The chances and possession Dublin had are irrelevant. Dublin scored a point and it was waved wide and lost a low scoring game by 1 point. There should be a replay. If there is no replay there should be an asterix beside the 2016 All Ireland Ladies Title *Both teams scores equal but Cork awarded the title due to umpire error. It will be similar to 2010 Leinster Championship." Dublin's misses after the fact are irrelevant to the argument.
The only thing that is relevant is that the point wasn't given. It was the wrong call but the decision was made and the rest of the game was played knowing that no score had been given.
There should be no replay.
It'd be a terrible precedent to be set. Imagine a team playing a game knowing that there'd been a contentious score. They wouldn't know if they need to win by 1 point or 2. Decisions have to be made at the time and stuck to.
The real issue is why was Hawkeye not used, did the LGFA decide not to pay for the technology to be calibrated for a ladies ball and if so does that mean they sold their players short?
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4226 - 26/09/2016 16:47:02
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Replying To jj72: "You are 100% correct. The chances and possession Dublin had are irrelevant. Dublin scored a point and it was waved wide and lost a low scoring game by 1 point. There should be a replay. If there is no replay there should be an asterix beside the 2016 All Ireland Ladies Title *Both teams scores equal but Cork awarded the title due to umpire error. It will be similar to 2010 Leinster Championship." Kildare keeper came off her line in saving the penalty.
Kildare should give a Clare a replay
Superglue (Kerry) - Posts: 1283 - 26/09/2016 16:53:00
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Replying To Whammo86: "In Laois Armagh, the Laois management have to take a huge slice of the blame. They were the guys who put on the extra sub. We had this discussion at the time and I remember finding out that keeping track of a teams substitions was not part of the officials duties." Thats like saying if a player committs a foul and the ref sees it but waves play the player has to take responsibility for the free not being given not the ref.
the officials are responsible for officiating the game not players and management so who do you reckon is responsible for the substitutes process taking place if not the sideline official? And what is the sideline official responsible for then during the game ?
hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 26/09/2016 17:46:43
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Replying To Whammo86: "Dublin's misses after the fact are irrelevant to the argument.
The only thing that is relevant is that the point wasn't given. It was the wrong call but the decision was made and the rest of the game was played knowing that no score had been given.
There should be no replay.
It'd be a terrible precedent to be set. Imagine a team playing a game knowing that there'd been a contentious score. They wouldn't know if they need to win by 1 point or 2. Decisions have to be made at the time and stuck to.
The real issue is why was Hawkeye not used, did the LGFA decide not to pay for the technology to be calibrated for a ladies ball and if so does that mean they sold their players short?" The real issue is not Hawkeye
The real issue is the umpire
There was no need to go to Hawkeye for that it wasn't even contentious whatever about the guy on the post the ball went inside the guy the cusack stand side had the best view in the house the camera angle was far worse than his view and it clearly showed it over the bar, he was bang at the bottom corner of the net looking at directly in his vision, the officials involved in the game seem to always get a pardon from critism and immediately it's the gaa the lgfa the Dublin manager the cork manager croke park instead of focusing on the real problem that was did the umpire deliberately not give the point or is he incapable of doing the job correctly when a decision as clear as that he could not get right.
hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 26/09/2016 17:55:17
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Replying To hill16no1man: "The real issue is not Hawkeye
The real issue is the umpire
There was no need to go to Hawkeye for that it wasn't even contentious whatever about the guy on the post the ball went inside the guy the cusack stand side had the best view in the house the camera angle was far worse than his view and it clearly showed it over the bar, he was bang at the bottom corner of the net looking at directly in his vision, the officials involved in the game seem to always get a pardon from critism and immediately it's the gaa the lgfa the Dublin manager the cork manager croke park instead of focusing on the real problem that was did the umpire deliberately not give the point or is he incapable of doing the job correctly when a decision as clear as that he could not get right." Agree the umpire should have got it. The other umpire and ref should also have questioned him but mistakes happen. They'd happen less with Hawkeye.
As for Laois footballers their management was definitely to blame. They put on an extra sub, how do they not know how many subs they'd already used. The official probably didn't question it at the time because you know I'd guess he's assume that the team's management would maybe have put some thought into their substitions.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4226 - 26/09/2016 19:42:29
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Replying To clondalkindub: "A score was not given by terrible umpiring so that should rob a team of a replay? Surely Cork will do the right thing and give a replay cause they won't be considered 2016 champions in my book." Your book book doesn't really matter.
I don't know why some many people feel the onus is on Cork to offer a replay. You think the result was unfair on the Dublin team, but you don't see anything unfair in that! The LGFA are the ones with that power. Let them exercise it.
Midleton (Cork) - Posts: 643 - 26/09/2016 20:09:53
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Replying To Midleton: "Your book book doesn't really matter.
I don't know why some many people feel the onus is on Cork to offer a replay. You think the result was unfair on the Dublin team, but you don't see anything unfair in that! The LGFA are the ones with that power. Let them exercise it." I think there's some serious blue tint on his glasses.
Decisions need to be made at the time of the incident. Those decisions have to be final.
I wouldn't consider Cork's win tainted either. They played to the official score and won the game. Bad calls happen all the time and have already happened on the biggest occasions.
Saw an old thread there about the 1995 final and Dublin fans calling Tyrone whingers and moaners for the Charlie Redmond incident. So I assume the Dublin posters won't be wanting to lower themselves to that level.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4226 - 26/09/2016 21:18:47
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Replying To Richieq: "To be honest if hawkeye was even in use would it have been referred to??? One umpire waved it wide, the other didn't argue and the referee agreed so. A horrendous umpiring decision but how often have we seen that before. The LGFA's reasoning for not employing hawkeye at their games is rubbish though, if they want their games played in the country's best stadium then they should employ the best facilities therein" The referee would actually get a signal from Hawkeye itself to review. It happened in a hurling match this year, a point was given and wasn't contested but the referee went to Hawkeye himself as he got a signal and it turned out to be wide.
county man (Limerick) - Posts: 1102 - 26/09/2016 21:19:36
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Replying To Midleton: "Your book book doesn't really matter.
I don't know why some many people feel the onus is on Cork to offer a replay. You think the result was unfair on the Dublin team, but you don't see anything unfair in that! The LGFA are the ones with that power. Let them exercise it." I don't think anyone feels cork should offer anything. I don't anyway the same as i don't think Dublin should have to appeal.
if something is going to be done the lgfa should come out and say so instead of having both camps in this position
hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 26/09/2016 22:05:02
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Replying To Whammo86: "Agree the umpire should have got it. The other umpire and ref should also have questioned him but mistakes happen. They'd happen less with Hawkeye.
As for Laois footballers their management was definitely to blame. They put on an extra sub, how do they not know how many subs they'd already used. The official probably didn't question it at the time because you know I'd guess he's assume that the team's management would maybe have put some thought into their substitions." This has happened time and again umpires making mistakes when do we have to say I'm kets do something about making umpires improve their performance. Its one thing a sliotar but a football that low you don't need Hawkeye human error is blamed for everything an official does only so much human error before somebody gets dropped or suspended I think has to start happeneing officials.
What is the sideline official job id not to regulate subs?
hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 26/09/2016 22:11:06
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So what happens should there be another controversial issue of the same magnitude or the same injustice dished out, allowing the cup to be presented to a county while the de facto all Ireland champions look on, would the Dublin co. board and Jim Gavin or the Mayo co. board and Stephen Rochford accept it as lightly if their county was hoodwinked out of an all Ireland final, I think not.
No lesson was learned from that 2010 leinster final with Meath and Louth, or from the Ring cup final with Meath and Antrim, and no lesson will be learned from the Dublin and Cork ladies final yesterday either, Dublin take the hit while Cork take the blame, imo the buck is being passed.
The more people say Dublin are not entitled to a replay the less likely it will happen.
Why is there not a transparent appeals procedure in place to deal with issues like this one, isn't there an appeals procedure in place to deal with suspensions that a club or county appeal on the grounds that the suspension(s) may be unjust or too severe, if the appeal is won then the player(s) are available for that all important game for their club or county. Isn't there an appeal procedure in place to deal with an illegal player, and to deal with a team playing a sub too many, correct me if I'm wrong but didn't a replay take place this year to deal with that issue.
This issue and similar issues is not going to be solved satisfactorily, so why then can't an appeals committee in HQ say, you haven't solved this issue, so we are going to take ownership of it and this is the way we see it, to be done and dusted within a week.
The LGFA has a roll to play in this as well,for starters draft a letter of objection to HQ, ask how do they intend to deal with it, - and post it.
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supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 2907 - 26/09/2016 23:35:23
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Im really angry over all this. Its one of the great injustices. I dont blame the umpires . Human error. But its very simple to have a clause called EXCEPTIONAL CIRCUMSTANCES OF INJUSTICE where the injustice is one of FACT not subjective opinion , and order a replay immediately under such a clause. This has been a massive own goal by ladies gaa and cork and their management have not covered themselves in glory either.
Malonemagic (Laois) - Posts: 766 - 26/09/2016 23:41:42
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