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Another embarrassment in Croke Park

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The LGFA is very much a separate organisation as indeed is the Camogie association, different rules and dress codes. BUT all girls and ladies playing football and camogie are members of GAA clubs. Their memberships are administered on GAA systems, their Garda vetting systems are shared to name but two. So while it is correct to say they have separate governing bodies it is not true to say the players are not members of the GAA. Also look at the "hurling/camogie" sponorship deal with Liberty Insurance, or the AIG sponsorship deal in the capitol. In my own club which is the largest camogie club in Ireland and the second largest Ladies Football club they are very much an essential part of our GAA club - unlike some single sex/code clubs still operating in the middle ages. But the LGFA is the only organisation responsible for the debacle in Croke Park not the GAA. It is no secret that Dublin in a Football final brings in extra spectators and extra interest - this nonsense needs an honest answer other than the embarrasment on the LGFA website were it is not even mentioned in its glowing match report - Pravda would be proud of its exclusion. The LGFA owe its followers an explanation and some attempt at ensuring this is rectified for future games. Note there seems to be a large difference between the hardworking honest sporting excellence pursued by female GAA members and their imposed governing body who have let an awful lot of fans/players down. arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4898 - 26/09/2016 19:25:55 1919416 Link
As mentioned before this mess is a LGFA one and noting to do with the GAA or Croke Park. Human error is common factor in all sports but the LGFA's refusal to pay for Hawke Eye for their showcase Finals does seem a bit stubborn or short sighted on their part! They may state it cost too much, but surely for the ALL Ireland Finals alone, a fundraiser or suitable Sponsor/s could have been found to foot the bill or help with costs? As for the calls for a replay it's a really hard one to call. There are strong points for and against, but IMO as the LGFA like the GAA are amature organisations I feel the whole 'can of worms' argument really should apply to professional sports. The ethos of community and fair play in our games should a hold preference over any human error by an official, score board keeper, etc and therefore wrongs should be corrected in blatant cases. I think maybe the LGFA could learn from their mistakes in this years Senior Ladies Final (As a separate organisation from the GAA with their own rules) by possibly trialing a 'Video Ref' for their finals next year. The GAA may have refused this technology so far, but I'm sure it would be allot cheaper than Hawke Eye for the LGFA to use and had it been in place this year we would be all talking about how successful it was and how easy it was to access despite all the pre use concerns!! Thoughts? IrelandUnited (Tyrone) - Posts: 77 - 26/09/2016 19:25:56 1919417 Link
Replying To cuchulainn35: "First of all , this is awful and i really feel for the Dublin players, BUT as a referee you cannot blame the referee as he will go with his umpires - it was a mistake , a monumental mistake.... but it wasn't that it was 20/30 feet in the air it was rather close to the crossbar..... weather conditions must have played a part... But I do feel Cork have come out of this poorly, can you image the same reaction if Meath have had have said we aren't replaying the christy Ring Cup, fair play Meath and well done, in 2000 Cork played against Derry in an All-Ireland minor semi-final with an extra player, the player who was sent off didn't go!! There was widespread appeal for Cork to do the right thing but no replay was coming..... Yes who is going to give up an All-Ireland , but Cork's use of language could have been better....." "In 2000 Cork played against Derry in an All-Ireland minor semi-final with an extra player, the player who was sent off didn't go!" Absolute bolixology! The player was never sent off. The referee's explanation at the time was that he had meant to give the player the black book in the first half, but gave him a yellow by mistake. However he merely marked it down a a ticking. So what everyone thought was the players second yellow was in fact his first. Do a bit of research before you post. Midleton (Cork) - Posts: 643 - 26/09/2016 20:01:00 1919432 Link
When you see monaghan ladies players having to do bucket collections six days before an all Ireland semi to pay for the trip it tells you the financial difference between men and women. If monaghan man ever get to a semi final I don't think you will see connor McManus out collecting ros1 (Roscommon) - Posts: 1211 - 26/09/2016 21:30:46 1919462 Link
Replying To ROS1: "When you see monaghan ladies players having to do bucket collections six days before an all Ireland semi to pay for the trip it tells you the financial difference between men and women. If monaghan man ever get to a semi final I don't think you will see connor McManus out collecting" Some people have short memories, do you not remember before the dust had settled on the shambolic way that Louth were treated after the 2010 LSF final, a high ranking official came out and said, we must make sure a thing like this doesn't happen again.??? supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 2910 - 26/09/2016 21:43:06 1919464 Link
Replying To ROS1: "When you see monaghan ladies players having to do bucket collections six days before an all Ireland semi to pay for the trip it tells you the financial difference between men and women. If monaghan man ever get to a semi final I don't think you will see connor McManus out collecting" Ros I'm still trying to understand your point??? Surely it would be up to Monaghan ladies football board to raise the money??? If LFGA wants to be part of the GAA then fine, integrate instead of dragging their heels as they are the ones holding back.....but if they don't want to integrate then stop moaning and blaming the GAA when their own officials can't run things correctly PaudieSull1 (Down) - Posts: 738 - 26/09/2016 22:56:16 1919491 Link
Replying To Greengrass: "You're the one who can't see past your own nose . You made a statement that was my incorrect and you were called on it . Deal with it . Your latest rant is in a similar vein . It's silly nonsense ." Good man wipeass, your a real Gael, hate everything even women, silly boy, LOL. moc.dna (Galway) - Posts: 1212 - 27/09/2016 00:52:19 1919501 Link
Replying To moc.dna: "Silly post, good man you must sit high & mighty in that Ivory Tower. If you read any of my posts yo would see that 1/ I pointed out that yes the LGFA is independent of the Association & 2/ they were to blame also for this fiasco. But let's point out something here, ladies play Gaelic football & play a large role in all Gaa clubs & are generally accepted to be part of the Gaa family. Yet reading many posts here the hatred & vitriol shown you would be forgiven for thinking they were playing "foreign games". The level of hate shown is disgraceful & maybe many of these girls & their parents instead of being involved with their local club would be better off playing soccer, they would certainly get less abuse. Also if they took the Lidl sponsorship that has benefited many clubs this year & took it to soccer, it might make ye happy. Another point is the lip service paid to Ladies football by the Ard Stiurothoir & President is the same as that paid to vlub players, all plamas. The reality is that the ladies seen as Gaa family & members have to hire Croke Park & pay for everything in the same way as other codes, this is blatantly wrong & with all the money made they couldn't gift Hawkeye for the occasion. It proves one point Croke Park is all about money. No problems shelling out 10% of commercial revenue to the GPA though. Many club people are leaving in droves over issues such as club fixtures, payment to managers, on & off field violence of a very serious nature that is usually swept under the carpet & this is another that will drive girls & parents to other codes. That will probably please people like yourself, I hope ye will be all happy together. It's ironic how many posters were so adamant & outraged (rightly so) after the Meath v Louth Leinster final, you do remember that don't you, lots of posts to reference here still in that subject. The Gaa rent out the Stadium & have come out of this badly, regardless. Ironically enough as someone who has brought numerous teams to Croke Park for games & to the museum, Gaa members pay the same price as tourists, no discount for Gaa members even in groups. I raised this with Croke Park that surely Gaa members should get some concession but it was like trying to talk to the wall, it's all about money. Waste of time being involved in or even debating with people as its full of myopic people who can't see beyond their own nose & what would benefit the whole Gaa family." Your feelings are so strong on this issue it suggests to me that you have a daughter on the Dublin panel. I can understand your frustration, but I have to say you have made accusations that posters who don't share your viewpoint are vitriolic and mocking Ladies football. I haven't read that in any post I have seen so far. You say, the GAA is now all about money. Maybe you have a point...I'm not going to argue too much with you on that. But here's evidence to the contrary : Croke Park is where the Ladies football final takes place year after year, even though it is a loss making affair. You will point out of course that over 34k attended this year, making for a record attendance. Except that we all know its rent a crowd -- there was a preponderance of under 18's making up that attendance. If the GAA was all about money, the Ladies football final, the camogie final, the Christy Ring, Lory Meagher, Nicky Rackard, the All Ireland Club finals and a number of other high profile fixtures would take place at smaller venues. However all of the above named deserve to have their final take place in Croke Park because all are a part of the GAA family. If young women drop football to play other sports. It won't be for the reasons you have stated --- they will do it like many have done before them, because sports like rugby offers them a prestige and an international dimension that Ladies football can never match. That is the reality. PoolSturgeon (Galway) - Posts: 1907 - 27/09/2016 01:23:46 1919503 Link
I'm only on the outside looking in but I find it hard to believe there are big numbers of GAA people who are bitter about ladies football or have a hatred for it. Another record attendance of over 35000 yesterday and the high skill levels on show from players who have been coached from a very young age doesn't suggest it either. The large attendance at yesterday's game should be celebrated more. Manchester City's women won their first soccer league here yesterday and the game was heavily advertised to attract a crowd. They managed to also get a record attendance - the soccer game got just over 4000 at it. Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 27/09/2016 10:37:40 1919550 Link
Replying To moc.dna: "Good man wipeass, your a real Gael, hate everything even women, silly boy, LOL." That last post is at your level all right . You were wrong . You got called on it and you can't take it . By the way I have coached ladies football teams and my daughter plays football . Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 27/09/2016 11:39:40 1919582 Link
Replying To IrelandUnited: "As mentioned before this mess is a LGFA one and noting to do with the GAA or Croke Park. Human error is common factor in all sports but the LGFA's refusal to pay for Hawke Eye for their showcase Finals does seem a bit stubborn or short sighted on their part! They may state it cost too much, but surely for the ALL Ireland Finals alone, a fundraiser or suitable Sponsor/s could have been found to foot the bill or help with costs? As for the calls for a replay it's a really hard one to call. There are strong points for and against, but IMO as the LGFA like the GAA are amature organisations I feel the whole 'can of worms' argument really should apply to professional sports. The ethos of community and fair play in our games should a hold preference over any human error by an official, score board keeper, etc and therefore wrongs should be corrected in blatant cases. I think maybe the LGFA could learn from their mistakes in this years Senior Ladies Final (As a separate organisation from the GAA with their own rules) by possibly trialing a 'Video Ref' for their finals next year. The GAA may have refused this technology so far, but I'm sure it would be allot cheaper than Hawke Eye for the LGFA to use and had it been in place this year we would be all talking about how successful it was and how easy it was to access despite all the pre use concerns!! Thoughts?" I don't think you can have a replay. I find it unfair on Cork for it to have been asked of them. Decisions have to be made at the time and they have to be final. The game was played from that point on without the score being given, that has to be it done and dusted. Imagine the game had finished in a draw (not counting the contentious decision) would people be calling for Dublin to win outright. That wouldn't be fair on Cork, you can't have a case where a contentious score can be awarded after the fact. All the subsequent action has happened based on the score not having counted and the scoreline has a major effect on how teams play. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4241 - 27/09/2016 13:06:53 1919620 Link
Replying To PoolSturgeon: "Your feelings are so strong on this issue it suggests to me that you have a daughter on the Dublin panel. I can understand your frustration, but I have to say you have made accusations that posters who don't share your viewpoint are vitriolic and mocking Ladies football. I haven't read that in any post I have seen so far. You say, the GAA is now all about money. Maybe you have a point...I'm not going to argue too much with you on that. But here's evidence to the contrary : Croke Park is where the Ladies football final takes place year after year, even though it is a loss making affair. You will point out of course that over 34k attended this year, making for a record attendance. Except that we all know its rent a crowd -- there was a preponderance of under 18's making up that attendance. If the GAA was all about money, the Ladies football final, the camogie final, the Christy Ring, Lory Meagher, Nicky Rackard, the All Ireland Club finals and a number of other high profile fixtures would take place at smaller venues. However all of the above named deserve to have their final take place in Croke Park because all are a part of the GAA family. If young women drop football to play other sports. It won't be for the reasons you have stated --- they will do it like many have done before them, because sports like rugby offers them a prestige and an international dimension that Ladies football can never match. That is the reality." I take on board the points you make, however there is a definite for & against on this post & I am not the only one on here who feel that there is a bitterness towards ladies football, the dismissal of every point by some is par for the course here, we could debate that one all day. Secondly you point out rightly so that the ladies deserve their finals in Croke Park but due to attendance most of whom are underage it's run at a loss. This is incorrect as the LGFA pay to hire Croke Park from the Gaa for the day. The cost of running Croke Park by the Stadium committee is also greatly reduced as large areas of the Stadium are closed off, so less staff, security, stewards, guards, caterers etc. Thirdly you say that the reasons I listed for club players leaving wasn't the case that rather it was those who leave is for an international dimension for one of the other codes. That percentage is so minuscule as so few get to make any international team, in Connacht over the last five years I can only recall four girls. The reasons I gave in particular lack of & poor adherence of club fixtures accounts for far greater numbers leaving. Incidents such as this controversy hinder recruiting young kids as parents view this shambles as an organisation not being worthy of joining. We can go to & fro on this & I accept you have your views which at least you have explained rather than knocking every post. In summary it's a mess that casts all, ref, umpires, Gaa, LGFA on the day in a bad light. I feel that ladies football & women have contributed greatly to the Gaa, one of my friends was the first female Secretary of a male club in Galway & she was a humdinger. In hurling at juvenile level in Galway there have been some extraordinary female officers, women contribute greatly to the Gaa & I believe that whether it's association is autonomous or not that the Gaa should be providing Croke Park & Hawkeye for free in recognition of their contribution. The fact that the GPA who are also outside the tent are now getting 10% of all commercial Gaa revenue & yet the ladies are made pay really highlights the fact that like Animal Farm, four legs good, two legs bad. I am going to end on this now as it's run its course & I have to put the dinner on, Greengrass probably thinks that is where I belong ! moc.dna (Galway) - Posts: 1212 - 27/09/2016 14:07:46 1919648 Link
Replying To PaudieSull1: "Ros I'm still trying to understand your point??? Surely it would be up to Monaghan ladies football board to raise the money??? If LFGA wants to be part of the GAA then fine, integrate instead of dragging their heels as they are the ones holding back.....but if they don't want to integrate then stop moaning and blaming the GAA when their own officials can't run things correctly" Where did i blame the gaa, my point was people who are blaming the lgfa don't realise that women's football has limited funds. You can blame the lgfa for been weary of joining the gaa when you see the dislike shown to them by some in the gaa ros1 (Roscommon) - Posts: 1211 - 27/09/2016 14:44:10 1919669 Link
Replying To PoolSturgeon: "Your feelings are so strong on this issue it suggests to me that you have a daughter on the Dublin panel. I can understand your frustration, but I have to say you have made accusations that posters who don't share your viewpoint are vitriolic and mocking Ladies football. I haven't read that in any post I have seen so far. You say, the GAA is now all about money. Maybe you have a point...I'm not going to argue too much with you on that. But here's evidence to the contrary : Croke Park is where the Ladies football final takes place year after year, even though it is a loss making affair. You will point out of course that over 34k attended this year, making for a record attendance. Except that we all know its rent a crowd -- there was a preponderance of under 18's making up that attendance. If the GAA was all about money, the Ladies football final, the camogie final, the Christy Ring, Lory Meagher, Nicky Rackard, the All Ireland Club finals and a number of other high profile fixtures would take place at smaller venues. However all of the above named deserve to have their final take place in Croke Park because all are a part of the GAA family. If young women drop football to play other sports. It won't be for the reasons you have stated --- they will do it like many have done before them, because sports like rugby offers them a prestige and an international dimension that Ladies football can never match. That is the reality." Your forgetting that the lgfa have to rent croke park from the gaa so it is loss making from the lgfa point of view not the gaa. It is not a good thing that young players are brought the final. You could also say there will be alot of people in croke park on Saturday who are rent a crowd just there because the see it as a event ros1 (Roscommon) - Posts: 1211 - 27/09/2016 14:54:04 1919674 Link
Replying To Soma: "I'm only on the outside looking in but I find it hard to believe there are big numbers of GAA people who are bitter about ladies football or have a hatred for it. Another record attendance of over 35000 yesterday and the high skill levels on show from players who have been coached from a very young age doesn't suggest it either. The large attendance at yesterday's game should be celebrated more. Manchester City's women won their first soccer league here yesterday and the game was heavily advertised to attract a crowd. They managed to also get a record attendance - the soccer game got just over 4000 at it." There are alot of good people involved in both codes but unfortunately there is some people who are bitter as well. I saw the mancity figure the bbc were on about what a great number it was. ros1 (Roscommon) - Posts: 1211 - 27/09/2016 14:57:40 1919677 Link
My take on this is that it's just not good enough to allow these sort of instances to deprive a team that have committed so much time and effort because of official incompetence. It wasn't good enough in 2010 or last Sunday or any other year for that matter. But , hey , that's just one thing we do well in this country is not to proportion blame or consequences to the people who are at fault. Sorry, it's just another example of how it's nobody's fault and sure these things happen and the same mistakes being repeated over and over. No , I don't want them jailed, but their performance should be monitored and they should be liable to not officiate again if they are shown to have been below par. The standard needs to be far better if only for the sake of the players and nobody else. Dubh_linn (Dublin) - Posts: 2312 - 27/09/2016 15:27:18 1919697 Link
Replying To ROS1: "There are alot of good people involved in both codes but unfortunately there is some people who are bitter as well. I saw the mancity figure the bbc were on about what a great number it was." Even where you have duel women's and men's clubs there will be a lot of lads who wouldn't give the women the time of day. Publicly they of course won't say a word but making snide remarks and comments give away their true feelings. There has to be a change and I think the GAA has to make all the running, the are the ones with all the power and resources and need to come up with the formulae that will entice the LGFA into some kind of umbrella organisation that covers all of Gaelic Games. I cannot be certain but I believe that London is the only CB outside of Ireland that does not cover the Women's game - I will stand corrected on that one however certainly further afield the game thrives without any split. That said that is something the LGFA itself doesn't like because the CBs align themselves with the GAA and not the LGFA, I have heard Presidents of the LGFA talk about the growth of the game overseas as if they had a hand in doing it, what they overlook is that all that growth is from people who believe there is no such thing as the LGFA only Gaelic Football and the GAA. zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 1806 - 27/09/2016 16:28:33 1919748 Link
Replying To Dubh_linn: "My take on this is that it's just not good enough to allow these sort of instances to deprive a team that have committed so much time and effort because of official incompetence. It wasn't good enough in 2010 or last Sunday or any other year for that matter. But , hey , that's just one thing we do well in this country is not to proportion blame or consequences to the people who are at fault. Sorry, it's just another example of how it's nobody's fault and sure these things happen and the same mistakes being repeated over and over. No , I don't want them jailed, but their performance should be monitored and they should be liable to not officiate again if they are shown to have been below par. The standard needs to be far better if only for the sake of the players and nobody else." I really don't know what can be done about human error. It happens across all sports also. Remember Lampards goal that wasn't versus Germany in the World Cup, that was even worse than this. That's why technology is being brought into elite sports. It's a check because people are pretty unreliable. Posters on here talk about their needs to be better training of officials but I mean what training helps you not mess up that call. It was a clear point, I dunno how between the ref and 2 officials they couldn't get it right but there you go. I'm sure they didn't do it on purpose but I think it just goes to show that the technology is needed. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4241 - 27/09/2016 16:53:01 1919764 Link
Replying To ROS1: "There are alot of good people involved in both codes but unfortunately there is some people who are bitter as well. I saw the mancity figure the bbc were on about what a great number it was." But you will always have them people, it seems to me that they are a small minority and hardly worth the level of attention they get here. The fact a small country can get such large attendances at ladies finals twice in September is a great reflection on Ireland and the GAA. Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 27/09/2016 19:48:39 1919862 Link
Replying To Soma: "But you will always have them people, it seems to me that they are a small minority and hardly worth the level of attention they get here. The fact a small country can get such large attendances at ladies finals twice in September is a great reflection on Ireland and the GAA." Fair enough and I would agree with you re the crowds. Ladies football the fastest growing sport in Europe I think their is great potential for both the gaa and lgfa to mutually benefit each other ros1 (Roscommon) - Posts: 1211 - 27/09/2016 20:26:44 1919884 Link