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Replying To Seansy48: "Yew-tree I'm sorry but they are bottlers!
At the minute they're one of the best team in the country and have been since 2011, when they're not one of the best teams in the country they don't go to finals...they are at the minute so they do.
There's a reason we talk about a big 3 or 4, the reason being it'd take pigs flying for anyone outside of that group to win Sam. Mayo have been in the group since 2011....to me it's a big 3 with Donegal possibly being the 4th and Mayo being the only one in the group to not win.
Last decade Mayo were the 4th team for a few years but never came away with the cup, Cork turned up for a couple of years as a top 3-4 team and converted.
Mayo consistently don't covert their position, they consistently have their worst days on their biggest days. I mean how does a team rip Donegal apart and then play as conservative as they did against Dublin last year, game on a plate for them and they switch....they give a Dublin team that had played no one a nice tune up and they add another All Ireland. It is bottling like, don't know how you can debate that...i bet Alan Dillon would give all his good years and finals etc. over for 1 AI medal, 2nd feels like nothing when you feel you deserve to win it" So you believe Mayo have been good enough to win the all Ireland the past 5 years? Also a bottler in my view even away from sport is someone who is beat or down and out and does not try to get back to where they want to be.
yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11232 - 23/08/2016 18:43:44
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So you believe Mayo have been good enough to win the all Ireland the past 5 years? Also a bottler in my view even away from sport is someone who is beat or down and out and does not try to get back to where they want to be.
yew_tree (Mayo)
Mayo have been good enough to win an All-Ireland since 2012. I understand you're definition of bottling but I would say your crowd bottled the 2013 final. That final was in the melting pot and it was there for your crowd to grab by the scruff of the neck. A team and county so starved of success should have gone for it.
We threw (passed) away the '11 final. Our opponent seized the day by scoring a cracking goal, though granted aided by a dubious free kick at the end.
Mayo were beaten by the better opponent in '12 and '14. Last year there must have been something wrong internally highlighted by the management team losing the players support. This current Mayo team and management would have made the final last year. I doubt there would have been a retention of the All-Ireland by their opponent if they had made the final but that's all ifs and buts and irrelevant.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7857 - 23/08/2016 19:20:59
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Replying To yew_tree: "So you believe Mayo have been good enough to win the all Ireland the past 5 years? Also a bottler in my view even away from sport is someone who is beat or down and out and does not try to get back to where they want to be." I do indeed, I've felt genuine pain for Mayo fans after the past 2 years of Semis...they were there to be won both times but the Mayo team didn't seize it either time. I mean what G.A.A fan wants Kerry or Dublin to pick up another All Ireland.
The only other loss i've been more upset about outside of Tyrone losses was Donegal in the 2014 AI final, they really really blew it although maybe that was some sort of karmic realignment for Kerry following their own bottling in the 2011 final, free or no free at the end they let Dublin back into that position.
To me a bottler is someone or a group of people who have a mental lapse at the pivotal moment time and again as Mayo have done, the "pivotal" moment can be a second or it can be the entire match. Playing all your best football before the final is certainly something bottlers do. On talent alone this Mayo team should be in the semi final every year as they have been, they're very talented, they're talented enough to me to make the next step for sure because they haven't I'd consider it bottling.
End of the day a semi isn't an achievement for this Mayo side, same way it wouldn't be for Kerry or Dublin...it shouldn't even be considered that way, Brolly's a drama queen but he's right it's shit or bust. Just seize it now, you have to be blood thirsty, you have to do the dark arts stuff, carry the ball through the middle with your best players and just give it an out and out smashing effort....SET FIRE TO TEARS!!
And then shut up because in all fairness I can't take this tragic anymore :D
Seansy48 (Tyrone) - Posts: 237 - 23/08/2016 19:23:18
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Kerry following their own bottling in the 2011 final, free or no free at the end they let Dublin back into that position.
Seansy48 (Tyrone)
In '11 our crowd threw it away alright but didn't bottle it. We should never have been in the position that a dubious free kick was going to lose the game. We were sloppy. We had drifted our way through that championship and were like an oil tanker drifting into port. Our opponents on the day seized the day to respectfully draw level.
'13 is the only time this Mayo team has bottled it. Last year clearly something wasn't right internally in their camp.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7857 - 23/08/2016 19:32:55
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Replying To Seansy48: "I do indeed, I've felt genuine pain for Mayo fans after the past 2 years of Semis...they were there to be won both times but the Mayo team didn't seize it either time. I mean what G.A.A fan wants Kerry or Dublin to pick up another All Ireland.
The only other loss i've been more upset about outside of Tyrone losses was Donegal in the 2014 AI final, they really really blew it although maybe that was some sort of karmic realignment for Kerry following their own bottling in the 2011 final, free or no free at the end they let Dublin back into that position.
To me a bottler is someone or a group of people who have a mental lapse at the pivotal moment time and again as Mayo have done, the "pivotal" moment can be a second or it can be the entire match. Playing all your best football before the final is certainly something bottlers do. On talent alone this Mayo team should be in the semi final every year as they have been, they're very talented, they're talented enough to me to make the next step for sure because they haven't I'd consider it bottling.
End of the day a semi isn't an achievement for this Mayo side, same way it wouldn't be for Kerry or Dublin...it shouldn't even be considered that way, Brolly's a drama queen but he's right it's shit or bust. Just seize it now, you have to be blood thirsty, you have to do the dark arts stuff, carry the ball through the middle with your best players and just give it an out and out smashing effort....SET FIRE TO TEARS!!
And then shut up because in all fairness I can't take this tragic anymore :D" mayo will win the all ireland if their believe is strong , enough,
they are in the same position now as kerry were in 2009 , poor
passage through the qualifiers good quarter final and poor semi final
it is set up for them , opposition in final will be overconfident , so if the preperation is
correct they will win it
downside (Leitrim) - Posts: 9 - 23/08/2016 19:51:38
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they are in the same position now as kerry were in 2009 , poor
downside (Leitrim)
Ahem. The last time the capital took on the great Kerry team was the Bank Holiday Monday of '09. They were to mark the end of that great team. What we witness was "orgasmic" football! They've gone out to pasture since the loss to Down in '10.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7857 - 23/08/2016 20:16:20
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So losing 2 close games to the Blue Juggernaut constitutes as bottling now, dearie me I don't want to know what these people think of Kerry
KYTitletown (Kerry) - Posts: 816 - 23/08/2016 22:09:04
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Replying To legendzxix: "Kerry following their own bottling in the 2011 final, free or no free at the end they let Dublin back into that position.
Seansy48 (Tyrone)
In '11 our crowd threw it away alright but didn't bottle it. We should never have been in the position that a dubious free kick was going to lose the game. We were sloppy. We had drifted our way through that championship and were like an oil tanker drifting into port. Our opponents on the day seized the day to respectfully draw level.
'13 is the only time this Mayo team has bottled it. Last year clearly something wasn't right internally in their camp." Dublin decided they wouldn't hand you the cup as so many teams have in the past and Kerry had no response, you could tell it was coming from the goal onwards.
It's not said enough but Kevin McManamon decided he was going to win the game for Dublin and no one could stop him, Kerry were probably thinking about the night out.
One team thinking ahh here we go same again I can't wait be drinking the champagne from Mr. Maguire tonight and another man on a team with their heads down saying give me the ball and get ready for the last 5 minutes so yeah maybe I should say Dublin won the match more than Kerry bottled but then again 64 minutes it an awful long time to control the match and lose
Seansy48 (Tyrone) - Posts: 237 - 23/08/2016 23:11:53
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64 minutes it an awful long time to control the match and lose
Seansy48 (Tyrone)
It is. I can only say again we shouldn't have let it get to a position where are dubious free kick was going to be the losing of that final. Our opponents respectfully seized the day to draw level. A replay would have told us all a lot. It wasn't meant to be. We've all moved on.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7857 - 24/08/2016 06:51:35
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Yew-tree I'm sorry but they are bottlers!
Seansy48 (Tyrone) - Posts:164 - 23/08/2016 17:19:33
Really hate the term "bottlers" used against anybody in any sport. A buzz word usually thrown about by some genius on a bar stool or some other genius who sat in a stadium shouting abuse at players for a whole game and their only opinion on the game afterwards is the losing team has no "bottle". Would these lads have the "bottle" to say it to Aidan O'Sheas face or any other players faces?
I think this Mayo team has loads of bottle, it took bottle to get rid of the management team and get in a man who they wanted in charge, knowing the the keyboard warriors would be out in force and ready for action if they failed. They showed bottle to pick themselves up after a defeat to Galway and get back to an All Ireland final, not playing well and winning games that were in the melting pot regardless of who the opposition were. They stay coming back year after year, putting their lives on hold in the hope of finally reaching the holy grail. They should be applauded for giving some of the most exciting games over the last 10 years and not ridiculed when a team beats them who were just better on the day.
Joe_Bloggs (Tipperary) - Posts: 186 - 24/08/2016 09:14:03
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Hate the word bottlers....especially when it comes to our national game and ameteur players giving it all for their county or club as it may be. I would hazard a guess you wouldn't call them a bottler to their face.
yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11232 - 24/08/2016 09:54:58
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Replying To yew_tree: "Hate the word bottlers....especially when it comes to our national game and ameteur players giving it all for their county or club as it may be. I would hazard a guess you wouldn't call them a bottler to their face." I see your point Yew Tree but there's really no point, especially on social media. There are hundreds, nay thousands of people out there who revel in our disappointments and will gleefully stick the boot in if Mayo fall short again, irrespective of the circumstances of the game. To some people (usually keyboard warriors) Mayo cannot possibly lose a game to a better team or perhaps due to being wasteful or off-form: every loss is a bottling act. This will be until finally Sam winters in Mayo, and in my experience, there's little to be gained by employing analysis, logic or reason with such people.
I do agree that few would say so to the faces of AOS or Colm Boyle though.
Gleebo (Mayo) - Posts: 2208 - 24/08/2016 10:58:55
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Replying To Gleebo: "I see your point Yew Tree but there's really no point, especially on social media. There are hundreds, nay thousands of people out there who revel in our disappointments and will gleefully stick the boot in if Mayo fall short again, irrespective of the circumstances of the game. To some people (usually keyboard warriors) Mayo cannot possibly lose a game to a better team or perhaps due to being wasteful or off-form: every loss is a bottling act. This will be until finally Sam winters in Mayo, and in my experience, there's little to be gained by employing analysis, logic or reason with such people.
I do agree that few would say so to the faces of AOS or Colm Boyle though." The term bottlers was also levelled at dublin pre 2011 and indeed post 2014. Indeed by one of your own own on that occasion. Pay no heed. If you're good enough you will win.
Jackeen (Dublin) - Posts: 4097 - 24/08/2016 11:06:43
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Replying To yew_tree: "Hate the word bottlers....especially when it comes to our national game and ameteur players giving it all for their county or club as it may be. I would hazard a guess you wouldn't call them a bottler to their face." You're right. It is a horrible word. It implies a 'cowardice' or some kind of shameful psychological flaw that prevents a team from winning. I'm no Mayo fan but one thing you cannot call them is 'bottlers'. They have persevered and kept coming back when others would have folded their tents. They may have lacked a forward or two and missed a crucial point when a game was there for the taking but that is not a psychological flaw. I think they have always given it their best shot but sometimes our best shot just ain't good enough. There is no shame in that.
avonali (Dublin) - Posts: 1974 - 24/08/2016 11:16:16
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Replying To Joe_Bloggs: "Yew-tree I'm sorry but they are bottlers!
Seansy48 (Tyrone) - Posts:164 - 23/08/2016 17:19:33
Really hate the term "bottlers" used against anybody in any sport. A buzz word usually thrown about by some genius on a bar stool or some other genius who sat in a stadium shouting abuse at players for a whole game and their only opinion on the game afterwards is the losing team has no "bottle". Would these lads have the "bottle" to say it to Aidan O'Sheas face or any other players faces?
I think this Mayo team has loads of bottle, it took bottle to get rid of the management team and get in a man who they wanted in charge, knowing the the keyboard warriors would be out in force and ready for action if they failed. They showed bottle to pick themselves up after a defeat to Galway and get back to an All Ireland final, not playing well and winning games that were in the melting pot regardless of who the opposition were. They stay coming back year after year, putting their lives on hold in the hope of finally reaching the holy grail. They should be applauded for giving some of the most exciting games over the last 10 years and not ridiculed when a team beats them who were just better on the day." I certainly would say it to O Shea's face I'm the same height as him but slightly less heavy and going by the way the man behaves when he carries the ball into contact I wouldn't be too worried about him, he's a great player but he's a bit of a lady purse at times!
Look to be honest if O Shea and Mayo don't think it themselves they'll never win an All Ireland, you can't just sit back 5 years in a row and marvel your opponent because "they were too good for you on the day"
Seansy48 (Tyrone) - Posts: 237 - 24/08/2016 13:47:16
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Replying To Seansy48: "I certainly would say it to O Shea's face I'm the same height as him but slightly less heavy and going by the way the man behaves when he carries the ball into contact I wouldn't be too worried about him, he's a great player but he's a bit of a lady purse at times!
Look to be honest if O Shea and Mayo don't think it themselves they'll never win an All Ireland, you can't just sit back 5 years in a row and marvel your opponent because "they were too good for you on the day"" Spot on Seansy, what annoys me about AOS and COC is that they spend too much time mouthing at the ref and trying to ref the game themselves,it upsets what they are trying to do football wise I think, they have inspired a few of their team mates to try the same craic,
the amount of times I see both of them carry the ball into the tackle,then jump up and dive as if the legs have been taken from under them, watch them the next day and you'll see what I mean. it's so obvious I don't know how refs haven't copped on to it.
I don't think it's going to matter much anyway, Sam won't be heading to Mayo anytime soon as far as I can figure, which is awful for the legions of Mayo fans who have followed the cause for so long, if by some miracle Kerry beat the Dubs then Mayo have a better chance,and the chance to get revenge for the robbery in Limerick might up Mayo's performance a bit,
so if I was a Mayo fan I'd be hoping Kerry win against the blue juggernaut, yerra that's unlikely to happen though for a rural county in the southwest of Ireland against the four regions like!!!
TirChonaillabu2 (Donegal) - Posts: 344 - 24/08/2016 14:43:32
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Replying To TirChonaillabu2: "Spot on Seansy, what annoys me about AOS and COC is that they spend too much time mouthing at the ref and trying to ref the game themselves,it upsets what they are trying to do football wise I think, they have inspired a few of their team mates to try the same craic,
the amount of times I see both of them carry the ball into the tackle,then jump up and dive as if the legs have been taken from under them, watch them the next day and you'll see what I mean. it's so obvious I don't know how refs haven't copped on to it.
I don't think it's going to matter much anyway, Sam won't be heading to Mayo anytime soon as far as I can figure, which is awful for the legions of Mayo fans who have followed the cause for so long, if by some miracle Kerry beat the Dubs then Mayo have a better chance,and the chance to get revenge for the robbery in Limerick might up Mayo's performance a bit,
so if I was a Mayo fan I'd be hoping Kerry win against the blue juggernaut, yerra that's unlikely to happen though for a rural county in the southwest of Ireland against the four regions like!!!" Aww so true TirChonaill, to me as it stands Aiden O Shea's retirement silhouette will be himself standing with his arm out toward the ref complaining with the ball in his right hand.
You're so right on their free winning tactic, look I know I'm a Tyrone man and I don't have a foot to stand on in this forum but just something I've noticed is that I get why O Connor does it but O Shea's the biggest man we've had playing this game, when he carries the ball the other team goes to him in numbers there's a panic that occurs. Well what sort of panic would occur if he breaks through the tackle of the full back bearing down on goal as only he should have the physicality to do based on his size...they either go to him and he passes it off to Moran or O Connor or they don't and he smashing it into the net.
I mean Jim McG laid it all out there for them, the danger of the goal in modern football and the opportunities that occur when you have the defense running back towards their own goal. To me Mayo have the biggest weapon in Ireland to exploit it and for whatever reason rarely have, I get the impression from O Shea that he doesn't want to take the chance and end up having to take the blame for a loss if he hogs the ball a bit but on the flip side of that is daring to go for it and ending up having to spread the plaudits around when he's earned them Sam Maguire
Seansy48 (Tyrone) - Posts: 237 - 24/08/2016 15:11:42
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Replying To TirChonaillabu2: "Spot on Seansy, what annoys me about AOS and COC is that they spend too much time mouthing at the ref and trying to ref the game themselves,it upsets what they are trying to do football wise I think, they have inspired a few of their team mates to try the same craic,
the amount of times I see both of them carry the ball into the tackle,then jump up and dive as if the legs have been taken from under them, watch them the next day and you'll see what I mean. it's so obvious I don't know how refs haven't copped on to it.
I don't think it's going to matter much anyway, Sam won't be heading to Mayo anytime soon as far as I can figure, which is awful for the legions of Mayo fans who have followed the cause for so long, if by some miracle Kerry beat the Dubs then Mayo have a better chance,and the chance to get revenge for the robbery in Limerick might up Mayo's performance a bit,
so if I was a Mayo fan I'd be hoping Kerry win against the blue juggernaut, yerra that's unlikely to happen though for a rural county in the southwest of Ireland against the four regions like!!!" With regards O'Shea he's Mayo's most influential player.He's the ability to single handely turn around a bad Mayo performance and when he runs at defences it can be hit or miss. He does over carry it sometimes and passing it off for another man would work better a lot of the time.
Cillian o Connor is so over rated this year I can't even get my head around why is he is around 10/11 for an all star.Yeah, in recent years he has deserved one but I'm sorry to say this to Mayo fans he isn't performing this season,even his frees aren't great these days .He's had decent games against ourselves and maybe Westmeath I think it was but I've watched him from the very start of the championship and he's not worthy of an all star I don't get it.Got a black card in his very first game back after minutes too .Saying that Mayo do have forwards who should be taking his place( when he is not performing , mainly Evan Regan .So confused why this guy was put on so late against us and against Tipp and he has been Mayo's second highest scorer this year and probably more accurate with frees the O'Connor.If a player is not playing great on the day you can't be afraid to sub him off .Think Mayo treat O'Connor and Aidan as Gods and if they have a bad game they are just allowed to slug it through and won't replace them .Dublin WILL replace their big names if they aren't doing the business .
GameOfTyrones (Tyrone) - Posts: 469 - 25/08/2016 12:05:18
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Replying To Seansy48: "I do indeed, I've felt genuine pain for Mayo fans after the past 2 years of Semis...they were there to be won both times but the Mayo team didn't seize it either time. I mean what G.A.A fan wants Kerry or Dublin to pick up another All Ireland.
The only other loss i've been more upset about outside of Tyrone losses was Donegal in the 2014 AI final, they really really blew it although maybe that was some sort of karmic realignment for Kerry following their own bottling in the 2011 final, free or no free at the end they let Dublin back into that position.
To me a bottler is someone or a group of people who have a mental lapse at the pivotal moment time and again as Mayo have done, the "pivotal" moment can be a second or it can be the entire match. Playing all your best football before the final is certainly something bottlers do. On talent alone this Mayo team should be in the semi final every year as they have been, they're very talented, they're talented enough to me to make the next step for sure because they haven't I'd consider it bottling.
End of the day a semi isn't an achievement for this Mayo side, same way it wouldn't be for Kerry or Dublin...it shouldn't even be considered that way, Brolly's a drama queen but he's right it's shit or bust. Just seize it now, you have to be blood thirsty, you have to do the dark arts stuff, carry the ball through the middle with your best players and just give it an out and out smashing effort....SET FIRE TO TEARS!!
And then shut up because in all fairness I can't take this tragic anymore :D" Yeah Mayo defo do have mental breakdowns during AI finals anyway. I don't know how they keep doing it.Anyone know what the record is for most all Ireland finals to lose in a row ? Not having a go at Mayo here by the way I'm just curious.I know Mayo have 7 at the minute lost in a row. Galway hurling team I think have lost 5 or 6 since 1980.
GameOfTyrones (Tyrone) - Posts: 469 - 25/08/2016 12:13:29
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Replying To GameOfTyrones: "With regards O'Shea he's Mayo's most influential player.He's the ability to single handely turn around a bad Mayo performance and when he runs at defences it can be hit or miss. He does over carry it sometimes and passing it off for another man would work better a lot of the time.
Cillian o Connor is so over rated this year I can't even get my head around why is he is around 10/11 for an all star.Yeah, in recent years he has deserved one but I'm sorry to say this to Mayo fans he isn't performing this season,even his frees aren't great these days .He's had decent games against ourselves and maybe Westmeath I think it was but I've watched him from the very start of the championship and he's not worthy of an all star I don't get it.Got a black card in his very first game back after minutes too .Saying that Mayo do have forwards who should be taking his place( when he is not performing , mainly Evan Regan .So confused why this guy was put on so late against us and against Tipp and he has been Mayo's second highest scorer this year and probably more accurate with frees the O'Connor.If a player is not playing great on the day you can't be afraid to sub him off .Think Mayo treat O'Connor and Aidan as Gods and if they have a bad game they are just allowed to slug it through and won't replace them .Dublin WILL replace their big names if they aren't doing the business ." Leave our Cillian alone.
Llaw_Gyffes (Mayo) - Posts: 1113 - 25/08/2016 18:04:24
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