National Forum

Tipp v Kilkenny

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Replying To ballydalane:  "I think I say this before every AI Final but I'm not optimistic. Looking at it from a simplistic point of view, Tipp obliterated a team that we needed two matches to scrape past. That line of form alone would suggest Tipp should be favourites. The only thing is that Waterford threw in the towel in the second half of that Munster final and Tipp were able to rack up the scores easily. I'm certain that Kilkenny, even if they're playing badly or getting well beaten, would not chuck it in like that. I don't think the players would dare go back into a Brian Cody dressing room having not left everything on the pitch.

Re team selection, Michael Fennelly's absence is a massive blow. He's such a big game player and he always seems to play well against Tipp. He's been severely hampered by injury and his performance in the first game v Waterford was very poor, but he was really coming into form in the replay before his injury struck.

With Fennelly out, I think Fogarty will have to come back into midfield, and I think Kieran Joyce will need to be recalled to CB. I'm not sure how Joyce is playing in training but if he's doing any way well at all, I'd be confident he'll want to atone for his dropping for the semi-final replay. He's a solid centre back and I think he'd fare better against Bonnar Maher than he did against Austin Gleeson.

In the semi-final replay, I think the selections of Liam Blanchfield and Mark Bergin were both shots in the dark from Cody. Farrell and Power were so ineffectual in the first game that he probably thought they couldn't do any worse. Blanchfield paid off but Bergin was anonymous, so I expect Blanchfield to start. He's a big and awkward type of player in the mould of Walter Walsh, but they can be effective too. There's no All-Ireland handed out for style. Farrell's earlier form this season may see him get the nod over Power, although Cody might want the height and physical presence of Power against a smallish Tipp full-back line. Power did well against Tipp in the final replay in 2014 (scored 1-1 I think), that might be at the back of Cody's mind also.

I'd worry about the full-back line with the exception of Paul Murphy. Joey Holden has acquitted himself as well as any full-back could reasonably be expected to do taking over from JJ Delaney, but there's still a perception in Kilkenny that he's too "nice" for the position, and he's coming up against a full forward in Seamus Callanan who loves playing against nice full-backs. The nice guy can't leave the dressing room on Sunday, I'm afraid. Shane Prendergast in the left corner is another potential weak link Tipp will be looking to exploit, especially with the Tipp full-forward line's ability to score goals. You'd imagine that if Jackie Tyrell was anywhere, anywhere, close to his best form that Shane wouldn't be getting a look in, but I think this could be Jackie's last year on the panel. Pity, as Jackie has played brilliantly against Tipp in the last 6 or 7 years we've played, he obviously thrives on the challenge of the fixture.

I have a feeling this will be another classic. It might be a cliché but I don't think these teams are capable of playing a bad match. Have a feeling Tipp will win this one, law of averages states they have to beat us again eventually, but hope I'm wrong."
Shane prendergast has done no wrong this year will be a tight game but I expect kilkenny to show there claws sunday second game against waterford was a blessing will bring them on no end kk by 4

northerncat (Kilkenny) - Posts: 30 - 31/08/2016 17:34:10    1908794

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Very poor and low key build up, do the GAA not feel a need to promote the game because they have sold most of the tickets?
This is the truly iconic day in Irish sport and 3 days out from it, there is not a word about it?

Pinkie (Wexford) - Posts: 4100 - 31/08/2016 18:04:29    1908807

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Replying To WildPundit:  "That's muck my friend in terms of you saying Maher went out to do Rice.
Tough player but he never went out to injure on purpose.
Not making any more comments on that incident or any other from the past.
Since 2012 I can't remember a game where there was any wild pulling etc just the hand bags between Lar and JJ.
So look Kilkenny lads leave it there."
[url]http://youtu.be/4zzAIbUnhWw

bulba (Kilkenny) - Posts: 35 - 31/08/2016 19:30:56    1908837

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By the way, my post above was originally in paragraphs but seems to have mysteriously morphed into one bloc of text (in the mobile phone version at least!)

ballydalane (Kilkenny) - Posts: 1246 - 31/08/2016 21:46:22    1908878

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Replying To ballydalane:  "By the way, my post above was originally in paragraphs but seems to have mysteriously morphed into one bloc of text (in the mobile phone version at least!)"
What's that link about lad?
Are u digging up St.Kilkenny archives again?

WildPundit (Tipperary) - Posts: 1709 - 31/08/2016 22:01:32    1908886

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Replying To ballydalane:  "I think I say this before every AI Final but I'm not optimistic. Looking at it from a simplistic point of view, Tipp obliterated a team that we needed two matches to scrape past. That line of form alone would suggest Tipp should be favourites. The only thing is that Waterford threw in the towel in the second half of that Munster final and Tipp were able to rack up the scores easily. I'm certain that Kilkenny, even if they're playing badly or getting well beaten, would not chuck it in like that. I don't think the players would dare go back into a Brian Cody dressing room having not left everything on the pitch.

Re team selection, Michael Fennelly's absence is a massive blow. He's such a big game player and he always seems to play well against Tipp. He's been severely hampered by injury and his performance in the first game v Waterford was very poor, but he was really coming into form in the replay before his injury struck.

With Fennelly out, I think Fogarty will have to come back into midfield, and I think Kieran Joyce will need to be recalled to CB. I'm not sure how Joyce is playing in training but if he's doing any way well at all, I'd be confident he'll want to atone for his dropping for the semi-final replay. He's a solid centre back and I think he'd fare better against Bonnar Maher than he did against Austin Gleeson.

In the semi-final replay, I think the selections of Liam Blanchfield and Mark Bergin were both shots in the dark from Cody. Farrell and Power were so ineffectual in the first game that he probably thought they couldn't do any worse. Blanchfield paid off but Bergin was anonymous, so I expect Blanchfield to start. He's a big and awkward type of player in the mould of Walter Walsh, but they can be effective too. There's no All-Ireland handed out for style. Farrell's earlier form this season may see him get the nod over Power, although Cody might want the height and physical presence of Power against a smallish Tipp full-back line. Power did well against Tipp in the final replay in 2014 (scored 1-1 I think), that might be at the back of Cody's mind also.

I'd worry about the full-back line with the exception of Paul Murphy. Joey Holden has acquitted himself as well as any full-back could reasonably be expected to do taking over from JJ Delaney, but there's still a perception in Kilkenny that he's too "nice" for the position, and he's coming up against a full forward in Seamus Callanan who loves playing against nice full-backs. The nice guy can't leave the dressing room on Sunday, I'm afraid. Shane Prendergast in the left corner is another potential weak link Tipp will be looking to exploit, especially with the Tipp full-forward line's ability to score goals. You'd imagine that if Jackie Tyrell was anywhere, anywhere, close to his best form that Shane wouldn't be getting a look in, but I think this could be Jackie's last year on the panel. Pity, as Jackie has played brilliantly against Tipp in the last 6 or 7 years we've played, he obviously thrives on the challenge of the fixture.

I have a feeling this will be another classic. It might be a cliché but I don't think these teams are capable of playing a bad match. Have a feeling Tipp will win this one, law of averages states they have to beat us again eventually, but hope I'm wrong."
Interesting comment by ballydalane. Paul Murphy keeps the Kilkenny back line together, if he has a tough opponent next Sunday, it could be difficult for the other lads.
Liam Blanchfield delivered v Waterford in the replay, how many more guys do Kilkenny have in reserve that they can spring if things get awkward.
I favour Tipperary to win next Sunday, as Kilkenny look to have used up some their proverbial nine lives so far.
Best wishes to my fellow county man Brian Gavin, the man in the middle, next Sunday.

thelongridge (Offaly) - Posts: 1741 - 31/08/2016 22:12:47    1908891

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Replying To ballydalane:  "By the way, my post above was originally in paragraphs but seems to have mysteriously morphed into one bloc of text (in the mobile phone version at least!)"
hmmm,funny it was posted by bulba also!!

perfect10 (Wexford) - Posts: 3929 - 01/09/2016 11:35:42    1909049

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Replying To bulba:  "[url
http://youtu.be/4zzAIbUnhWw"]Has anyone else noticed how many times Brian Gavin has come up in articles this week? Even the Tommy Walsh nip on the nose is back in the media. It's been a low key enough build up but I don't think I've heard as much talk about a ref ahead if an AI before (and yes I realise I'm adding to it here).

I just hope all the scrutiny doesn't affect Gavin's conscience on Sunday. The most important thing on Sunday is the safety of the players. Looking back at that Paudi Maher wild pulls video it just shoes how irresponsible GAA refereeing can be. What on earth was Cathal McCallister thinking leaving him on the field. He ultimately paid the price by being dropped from the ref panel that year.

Lots of whinging about Munster refs not getting finals in the last few years but the reality is the standard is quite poor among Munsters top refs currently, and McCallister was a good example.

We all want a good 'flowing' game this Sunday but above all else let's hope for no wreckless play allowed, and I'm confident that Gavin can differentiate between a little nip on the nose & a career ending hatchet job. At the end of the day as Joe Canning said it's an amateur game...

Lookit (Kilkenny) - Posts: 12 - 01/09/2016 20:58:42    1909304

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I really don't understand why incidents of 2012 are being bought up since my comment was since the 2012 game there has been no bad incidents.
If Kilkenny lads want to start discussing those we can make another thread and put together a list of the dirtiest Kilkenny and Tipperary incidents of all time.
This thread was originally for the AI of 2016 pity some KK lad turned it sour.

WildPundit (Tipperary) - Posts: 1709 - 01/09/2016 23:05:45    1909341

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What's the craic with all the mutual respect talk from both camps?
I for one think you can show respect after the final whistle but damn it if i'd be thinking of respecting a team before a game.
Go out and go to war!!

tiobraid (Tipperary) - Posts: 4119 - 02/09/2016 08:35:31    1909363

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Replying To Lookit:  "
Replying To bulba:  "[url
http://youtu.be/4zzAIbUnhWw"
Has anyone else noticed how many times Brian Gavin has come up in articles this week? Even the Tommy Walsh nip on the nose is back in the media. It's been a low key enough build up but I don't think I've heard as much talk about a ref ahead if an AI before (and yes I realise I'm adding to it here).

I just hope all the scrutiny doesn't affect Gavin's conscience on Sunday. The most important thing on Sunday is the safety of the players. Looking back at that Paudi Maher wild pulls video it just shoes how irresponsible GAA refereeing can be. What on earth was Cathal McCallister thinking leaving him on the field. He ultimately paid the price by being dropped from the ref panel that year.

Lots of whinging about Munster refs not getting finals in the last few years but the reality is the standard is quite poor among Munsters top refs currently, and McCallister was a good example.

We all want a good 'flowing' game this Sunday but above all else let's hope for no wreckless play allowed, and I'm confident that Gavin can differentiate between a little nip on the nose & a career ending hatchet job. At the end of the day as Joe Canning said it's an amateur game..."]Kilkenny are obviously happy with the ref, no Willie O'Connor or Eddie Keher in the media this week trying to influence him.

I'd be thinking that maybe there is too much talk about the ref but it works for Kilkenny - how many games has Barry Kelly reffed with Kilkenny playing since 2014 again?

Your going on about Paudies wreckless pull - which is was, but at least the ball was nearby and I believe he didnt set out to injury anybody. Tommy Walsh comes into a row swinging a hurley at head height and you think its ok?

Joe_Bloggs (Tipperary) - Posts: 186 - 02/09/2016 09:12:51    1909370

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I always back Kilkenny but I'm convinced Tipp will win this Sunday.

clondalkindub (Dublin) - Posts: 9926 - 02/09/2016 22:24:05    1909567

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Kilkenny by 4. Has there ever been a match where a team is going for an All Ireland 3 in a row which has had less talk about this (Maybe Kerry in 1986 but I can't really remember this too well)?

bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1354 - 03/09/2016 11:21:22    1909624

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Replying To clondalkindub:  "I always back Kilkenny but I'm convinced Tipp will win this Sunday."
What this is really all about is a battle for supremacy between two next door neighbours who have been locked in deadly combat in All Ireland Finals since 1895. In that time they have met in sixteen All Ireland Finals, with Tipp winning on eleven occasions, to five for Kilkenny.
More importantly three of the Cats victory's have come since 2009. So after over one hundred years of been dominated by the neighbours Tipperary, Kilkenny are now top dogs, and in what has often been a bitter struggle down through the years i cant see them giving away that hard won accolade too easely. So for me its Kilkenny.

clonjon (Dublin) - Posts: 665 - 03/09/2016 13:07:20    1909643

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Replying To clonjon:  "What this is really all about is a battle for supremacy between two next door neighbours who have been locked in deadly combat in All Ireland Finals since 1895. In that time they have met in sixteen All Ireland Finals, with Tipp winning on eleven occasions, to five for Kilkenny.
More importantly three of the Cats victory's have come since 2009. So after over one hundred years of been dominated by the neighbours Tipperary, Kilkenny are now top dogs, and in what has often been a bitter struggle down through the years i cant see them giving away that hard won accolade too easely. So for me its Kilkenny."
the past will count for nothing tomorrow afternoon

SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 2386 - 03/09/2016 13:27:18    1909651

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Replying To clonjon:  "What this is really all about is a battle for supremacy between two next door neighbours who have been locked in deadly combat in All Ireland Finals since 1895. In that time they have met in sixteen All Ireland Finals, with Tipp winning on eleven occasions, to five for Kilkenny.
More importantly three of the Cats victory's have come since 2009. So after over one hundred years of been dominated by the neighbours Tipperary, Kilkenny are now top dogs, and in what has often been a bitter struggle down through the years i cant see them giving away that hard won accolade too easely. So for me its Kilkenny."
They have actually played 18 times in All Ireland finals and it's 10:7 (1 draw) to Tipp in terms of All Ireland finals (10:8 if you count 1912 All Ireland refixture, some articles count this as an All Ireland final, some don't). In terms of championship meetings it it is 13:11 (1 draw) (again not counting 1912). Pre Brian Coady it was 11:4 in Tips favour (and Kilkenny only beat Tipperary once between 1923 and 2002). Some turn around in the Coady era.

bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1354 - 03/09/2016 14:01:00    1909663

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Replying To bdbuddah:  "They have actually played 18 times in All Ireland finals and it's 10:7 (1 draw) to Tipp in terms of All Ireland finals (10:8 if you count 1912 All Ireland refixture, some articles count this as an All Ireland final, some don't). In terms of championship meetings it it is 13:11 (1 draw) (again not counting 1912). Pre Brian Coady it was 11:4 in Tips favour (and Kilkenny only beat Tipperary once between 1923 and 2002). Some turn around in the Coady era."
My mistake, I ment 12:4 to Tipp pre Coady being manager.

bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1354 - 03/09/2016 14:32:21    1909672

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The pressure is on tipp tomorrow. lose and they will face a barrel of criticism. In general, hurling needs a tipp win, but kilkenny hold the aces. They have only lost twice to tipp since 2010, that was two league games. KK go into to tomorrows game with three of the finest hurlers out there, reid, hogan and murphy. Its hard to look by them, they have such self belief under cody, Im not sure how they drew the first game against waterford, they were outlplayed for 65 mins. People can say they were to lucky to beat waterford, at the end of the replay: they won the game and thats when it counts most. Tipp need a big push tomorrow and cant afford to not score in patches like they have this year. Noel Mc Grath, bonner maher, and their midfield must raise the physical stakes to have any chance. They have been found wanting in this area before. KK have such experience even though some forwards are relatively unknown. Its a big ask for K kelly to come in tomorrow and do the business but he has a great eye for goal and is similar to R hogan. If Tipp play like they did in their last 3 games in croke park, KK will win. They need a performance even better then 2010.

I find it somewhat bizarre all the pundits tipping tipp, kilkenny have such experience and craft, I feel they will do it by 3-5 points. They also have a stronger looking bench.

222 (UK) - Posts: 694 - 03/09/2016 15:07:08    1909686

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I think Tipp will win by 3 or 4 points. They have the players like John McGrath, Ken McGrath and Callinanan to get goals.

galwayford (Galway) - Posts: 2519 - 03/09/2016 18:42:21    1909716

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Best of luck to all teams and supporters and a safe journey to and from Croke Park, I have an inkling for a Tipperary victory

riverboys (Mayo) - Posts: 1389 - 03/09/2016 23:17:33    1909784

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