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They were a good team. Many thought they were the best team in 2009 also. They were favourites going into the Kerry final. They got blown away by the kingdom, probably lacked a bit of experience. The 2010 final wasn't pretty and they could have lost it but the were very worthy winners. It's not like they came from nowhere to win. That Down team were not as bad as they are considered now either. They'd Martin Clarke back from playing Aussie Rules. He was an absolutely terrific player. Benny Coulter was at his peak also that year. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4241 - 07/08/2016 12:34:58 1897280 Link 0 |
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It was a great team but you were on the receiving end of a bit of luck the first day in 88. Cork had a great team at the same time which appears to have been largely ignored by most people.
TheWestIsAwake (UK) - Posts: 529 - 10/08/2016 21:19:07 1899635 Link 0 |
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I feel you are spot on. They struggled to beat an average team like Limerick and would probably not have beaten Down only the Northerners best midfielder was off injured.
Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4342 - 10/08/2016 21:30:13 1899641 Link 0 |
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History will show, it was a classic Kerry team. The O'Se's, Moyinhan, Gooch, O'Sullivans, they were a joy to watch. However I do not expect you to agree, but on three occasions, against the same opposition, at a time both were at there peak, Kerry could not beat Tyrone. You cannot get away from that. The Tyrone team from the same era, had another serious Armagh team in there province which meant them having to take scenic route at times, yet when it mattered Tyrone left Kerry in there wake. Kerry people will not easily admit it, but Tyrone had Kerry's number in the era you mention.
sam1884 (UK) - Posts: 999 - 10/08/2016 21:40:33 1899645 Link 0 |
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Tyrone were better than Kerry in the 00s. TheRightStuff (Donegal) - Posts: 1688 - 10/08/2016 21:58:48 1899658 Link 0 |
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No one has mentioned Mayo... why not they made finals in 1996., 1997, 2004, 2006, 2012 and 2013.. and beat many good teams along the way as underdogs, they pipped Dublin when they were throwing shapes, they beat a fancied Tyrone team off the park... ok were unlucky in 1996 and should have won the first day, Horsebox77 (Kerry) - Posts: 5491 - 10/08/2016 22:00:24 1899660 Link 0 |
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I just don't think you can fall at the last all those times, never get over the line, and still be regarded as a great team.
cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5017 - 11/08/2016 10:12:03 1899760 Link 0 |
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History will show, it was a classic Kerry team. The O'Se's, Moyinhan, Gooch, O'Sullivans, they were a joy to watch. However I do not expect you to agree, but on three occasions, against the same opposition, at a time both were at there peak, Kerry could not beat Tyrone. You cannot get away from that. The Tyrone team from the same era, had another serious Armagh team in there province which meant them having to take scenic route at times, yet when it mattered Tyrone left Kerry in there wake. Kerry people will not easily admit it, but Tyrone had Kerry's number in the era you mention. sam1884 (UK) - Posts:204 - 10/08/2016 21:40:33 189 Happened once. Also, you could argue Kerry were at their peak the years they won it. Kerry went to 6 finals in a row yet Tyrone get excused for not even making back to back finals because they are in Ulster. Superglue (Kerry) - Posts: 1283 - 11/08/2016 11:00:10 1899775 Link 0 |
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The Galway team from 98-01 are a bit underrated by some, they were only a kick of the ball away from winning 3 All Ireland's in 4 years and in that Kerry game in 2000 Galway were missing Tomas Mannion & Ja Fallon and a half fit Kevin Walsh was brought on as a sub. TheWestIsAwake (UK) - Posts: 529 - 11/08/2016 11:03:45 1899777 Link 1 |
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In terms of raw talent that Kerry team of the 00's is head and shoulders above the rest, and I would even include the current Dublin team in that. Some of the names on the teamsheet are among the best players ever, how we could do with a few of them now. I always felt that they underachieved though, and never quite added up to the sum of their parts despite their success. Tyrone beat them in every game they met them in during that period, partly because of the way they played suited playing Kerry, and partly because they were a better unit and were better prepared by a very astute manager. That said, they didn't have anywhere near the success or consistency that Kerry had. It will be a long long time before a team reaches six football finals in a row again. GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2105 - 11/08/2016 11:45:52 1899790 Link 1 |
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We had a lucky escape the first day in 2000. Ball dropped short into O'Keeffe's arms at the end. I remember Seamus saying if Fallon was playing it would have been a different story. Super team. Probably left out of 00's conversation because the are more associated with the 90's, even though they won '01 Superglue (Kerry) - Posts: 1283 - 11/08/2016 12:02:39 1899803 Link 0 |
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In terms of raw talent, yes I'd agree - I think only the 78-81 crop of Kerry players were anywhere close in terms of raw talent. I mean just list off the names - 3 O'Sheas, Moynihan, 2 O'Sullivans, Gooch, MF Russell, then add in others who may not be regarded as quite as talented but immense footballers all the same - Donaghy, Mike McCarthy, Diarmuid Murphy in goals, Galvin, O'Mahony, Tom O'Sullivan, Eoin Brosnan! Cracking team! Always struck me as insane that Declan Quill couldn't make the first team cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5017 - 11/08/2016 12:12:11 1899816 Link 0 |
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That Galway team was a top team no doubt but I wouldn't really say they were only a kick of the ball away from winning 3 All Ireland's in 4 years, more true to say they were only a kick of the ball away from winning 2 All Ireland's in 3 years as would they have won in 2001 had they won it the previous year? (teams always seem to find it hard to defend the All Ireland having experienced the high of winning it the previous year). Also while Galway were unlucky in 2000 on the other hand I think one thing that worked to their advantage was going into the 1998 and 2001 finals as big underdogs. Living near the Kildare border I remember Kildare people thought they only had to turn up to win that game (that year they had already beaten the All Ireland Champions from previous 3 years and that Galway team were not as highly rated until they won that final). I thought the favourites tag did not sit well with that Kildare team and they did not really perform that day. In 2001 Meath, having disposed of Kerry easily in the semi-final, were massive favourites for that final and it seemed to really get to Meath in a bad way, Meath were so flat for that All Ireland final, they put in a terrible performance. bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1360 - 11/08/2016 15:48:52 1899959 Link 0 |
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I've never understood this myth that Kerry were more talented than Tyrone in the 00s, and that Tyrone were simply more tactically astute. Just as in soccer with Brazilians, I've long thought that Kerry lads were immediately considered as being better than they actually were as soon as they pulled on a green & gold jersey for the Kingdom. Of course, Kerry had some hugely talented players in that era, but so did Tyrone. Was Cooper more talented than Canavan? Mike Frank more gifted than Mulligan? Donaghy moreso than Stevie O'Neill? Declan O'Sullivan was no better than Brian McGuigan at his best, nor was Galvin any better than Dooher. Gerard Cavlan could do everything than O'CInneide could do, yet was far faster. In midfield, Cavanagh was at least as talented as Dara O'Se, while McGinley or Hughes were as good as Daly/Scanlon/Griffin or Kirby. Kerry's backs were very comfortable on the ball, especially the O'Se brothers, yet so were Joe McMahon, Davy Harte and Cormac McAnallen. And, when it came to defending, a skill also, I'd take Gormley, Ricey and Jordan were a match for McCarthy, O'Mahony & O'Sullivan. That Kerry side had huge talent, but so did Tyrone in the same era. Almost all of those Tyrone players mentioned have AI minor and U21 titles, and won 3 senior titles too. The pedigree was always there, and to dismiss it as tactical cuteness is simply being blinded by the aura of green & gold jerseys. Thomas Clarke (Tyrone) - Posts: 1002 - 12/08/2016 12:43:48 1900263 Link 0 |
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You see that's a hard question to really answer when you think about it. It's not so easy to make a like for like comparison. I mean take O'Neill and Donaghy, they might both have been full forwards but they were very different types of full forwards. You can't really compare Darragh and Sean either because Sean was not an out and out midfielder whereas Darragh was always in the middle. Even Galvin and Dooher were different kinds of half forwards. I would disagree with you on one thing: I don't think any player from any team in that era came close to Declan O'Sullivan, that lad was just unique. TheHermit (Kerry) - Posts: 6354 - 12/08/2016 13:10:58 1900276 Link 0 |
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Offaly hurlers 90-98 didn't win enough all Irelands but My God what a side. And obviously Kilkenny 2000 through Brianmac78 (Dublin) - Posts: 1168 - 12/08/2016 13:32:29 1900290 Link 0 |
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@Thomas Clarke that's a good post and you are correct in most of what you say. It depends on which side you're looking at it from and we all view these things through the prism of our own team. Looking at some of the head to heads there is probably not that much in it, Canavan was as good as Cooper, but was past his best or retired for most of Tyrone's purple patch, while Cooper was at his peak throughout Kerry's. I think I'd have the Kerry lads marginally ahead in most of the comparisons you've made but I guess that's understandable given where I come from. You also forgot Moynihan who was probably the best all-round footballer of the lot, although he retired in 2006. GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2105 - 12/08/2016 13:37:31 1900291 Link 0 |
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Better? Best decided on the field. By volume, Kerry. Looking at head-to-head meetings in September, Tyrone. I never heard anyone in Kerry question the Tyrone pedigree. What rankled was the style of play, not least because it took us so long to cope with it. I'm still hoping for the day that rule changes loosen up and free up the game as an attacking spectacle. I express that as a personal preference, not a mantra beaten into me at a Kerry GAA gulag. plike (Kerry) - Posts: 569 - 12/08/2016 13:39:50 1900292 Link 0 |
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From 1996-2010 Kerry without a shadow of doubt,i lost count how many semi and finals they took part in, before 96 it would have to be a tie between Cork and Meath riverboys (Mayo) - Posts: 1389 - 12/08/2016 16:44:53 1900363 Link 0 |
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I agree we may never know what would have happened if Galway had won in 2000 but they were without Tomas Mannion & Ja Fallon in 2000 and only had a half fit Kevin Walsh. There is a chance these 3 players would have added the extra motivation required to defend the AI should they have won it in 2000.
TheWestIsAwake (UK) - Posts: 529 - 30/08/2016 13:26:02 1908080 Link 0 |