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Is no lucky all-irelands a myth?

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Replying To clondalkindub:  "That McQuillan thing was a lie it never happened, Kerry were 4 points up and we came back and snuck it by a point , I wouldn't say lucky I'd say Kerry were the better team on the day they were still young had an unbelievable team with massive experience of all Ireland finals but we had a never say dead attitude that year and in the end we just about deserved it imo. Just like Kerry deserved to win in 00 04 06 07 09 that was a great Kerry team but imo the 97 and 14 Kerry teams weren't all Ireland calibre teams they got very lucky to win Sam them years. For me the mayo team of the last 5 years is definitely an all Ireland calibre team but just haven't got over the line. These are my honest opinions I'm not here to bash anyone I'm a lover of Gaelic football. You can come back and say "so what we won in 97 and 14" and your right that's all that matters really."
There was nothing lucky about Kerry in 97 and 14. Even if other teams underperformed they still weren't lucky to win those games. Lucky is when an opposing team is robbed by a freak incident or refereeing decision that is the deciding factor in a match. Posters are just naming random teams that won in a certain year, that isn't luck.

TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 7907 - 26/07/2016 14:01:54    1890392

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Replying To tyroneed:  "Kerry have had quite a few soft/lucky All Irelands. Automatically starting in the Munster Semi Final is good for a start, usually against a Division 3 or 4 team. Then with the way draw is run they sometimes end up facing the same teams again as this year.

Usually have a nice rest before the Quarter Finals.

2004 was a pretty soft All Ireland for example."
A sure it was I mean we 'only' beat Mayo who did they beat to get to a final, surely not Tyrone???????

TheHermit (Kerry) - Posts: 6354 - 26/07/2016 14:14:05    1890401

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Replying To clondalkindub:  "That McQuillan thing was a lie it never happened, Kerry were 4 points up and we came back and snuck it by a point , I wouldn't say lucky I'd say Kerry were the better team on the day they were still young had an unbelievable team with massive experience of all Ireland finals but we had a never say dead attitude that year and in the end we just about deserved it imo. Just like Kerry deserved to win in 00 04 06 07 09 that was a great Kerry team but imo the 97 and 14 Kerry teams weren't all Ireland calibre teams they got very lucky to win Sam them years. For me the mayo team of the last 5 years is definitely an all Ireland calibre team but just haven't got over the line. These are my honest opinions I'm not here to bash anyone I'm a lover of Gaelic football. You can come back and say "so what we won in 97 and 14" and your right that's all that matters really."
So you are backing up my post saying Dublin never got lucky or the benefit of refereeing decisions helping them win Sam.

Thanks for clarifying that CD

KYTitletown (Kerry) - Posts: 816 - 26/07/2016 14:19:37    1890407

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Replying To greatpoint:  "If a team has to rely on a freak goal to get over the line in an All-Ireland final then it wasn't a game they controlled pretty well throughout."
Go onto youtube and rewatch the first half of the 2007 All Ireland final, you might see a very similar goal scored by the same man.

Now the casual observer of Kieran Donaghy like yourself can dismiss his goal in 2014 as a fluke, pure luck.

However if your seeing him play 8-10 times a year in the Kerry full forward line like some of us you might notice that he is a player who always hedged his bets with the opposition kick out, went closing down angles etc, on the off chance something like this would happen.

And see the reward: 2 vital goals in 2 All-Ireland Ireland's we won.

Luck or the poachers instinct?

TheHermit (Kerry) - Posts: 6354 - 26/07/2016 14:31:53    1890418

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Flaker you telling me they weren't unbelievably lucky against Mayo in '14?

clondalkindub (Dublin) - Posts: 9926 - 26/07/2016 14:36:13    1890423

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Replying To neverright:  "Some Mayo supporters might not agree with you"
Unfortunately Neverright that is true. Easier to put other teams success down to good luck and our bad luck than do something proactive to make us a better team.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7359 - 26/07/2016 14:55:32    1890437

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Replying To clondalkindub:  "Flaker you telling me they weren't unbelievably lucky against Mayo in '14?"
Mayo ahead by 5 with 5 left the first day and ahead by 7 in the replay and still lost. Dreadful game management cost Mayo, nothing to do with luck. If Mayo were ahead in injury time and got screwed over by the referee either day by a decision that cost them the game I would say it might have something to do with luck. Kerry went on to win the final and there was nothing lucky about that. I will say it again, posters need to change what they view as luck.

TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 7907 - 26/07/2016 14:57:20    1890441

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Replying To TheHermit:  "A sure it was I mean we 'only' beat Mayo who did they beat to get to a final, surely not Tyrone???????"
+1

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7868 - 26/07/2016 15:57:12    1890480

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Replying To TheHermit:  "Go onto youtube and rewatch the first half of the 2007 All Ireland final, you might see a very similar goal scored by the same man.

Now the casual observer of Kieran Donaghy like yourself can dismiss his goal in 2014 as a fluke, pure luck.

However if your seeing him play 8-10 times a year in the Kerry full forward line like some of us you might notice that he is a player who always hedged his bets with the opposition kick out, went closing down angles etc, on the off chance something like this would happen.

And see the reward: 2 vital goals in 2 All-Ireland Ireland's we won.

Luck or the poachers instinct?"
As I said, freak occurrence.

greatpoint (USA) - Posts: 427 - 26/07/2016 16:50:55    1890515

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Replying To TheFlaker:  "Mayo ahead by 5 with 5 left the first day and ahead by 7 in the replay and still lost. Dreadful game management cost Mayo, nothing to do with luck. If Mayo were ahead in injury time and got screwed over by the referee either day by a decision that cost them the game I would say it might have something to do with luck. Kerry went on to win the final and there was nothing lucky about that. I will say it again, posters need to change what they view as luck."
The only bad luck that day in Limerick was Cillian and Aidan clashing head's and both having to go off. That said by then we had let Kerry back into it.

Anyway the first day I can still see Moran kicking that big ball from under the Hogan into arms in the air Donaghy....he of course caught it and layed it to JOD and it ended in a draw. I was curing leaving Croke Park that day, while many Mayo fans were happy with the draw....I was thinking we won't get Kerry in a replay...no way.

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11236 - 26/07/2016 16:53:28    1890517

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Replying To greatpoint:  "As I said, freak occurrence."
There are none so blind as those who don't wish to see...

TheHermit (Kerry) - Posts: 6354 - 26/07/2016 16:55:25    1890518

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The best team usually wins the All-Ireland,but any team who wins it normally needs a bit of luck to do it.

ziggy32001 (Meath) - Posts: 8354 - 26/07/2016 16:58:24    1890522

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Replying To KingdomBoy1:  "Were ye not lucky in 95?
Ye had a man sent off who didn't leave the field for 10/15 mins after.
And the Peter canavan free at the end."
I was going ti put this one in my original post but I was afraid someone would track me down for such an insult!
I thought mentioning the 2011 final was bad enough.
I don't think Charlie touched the ball after he was sent off in 95 in fairness....

gormdubhgorm (Dublin) - Posts: 990 - 26/07/2016 17:01:20    1890525

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Replying To Llaw_Gyffes:  "Please, please let us win a lucky All Ireland. Objections, lucky penalties, bad refereeing decisions, train disputes, poor standard of football, dodgy black, yellow and red cards, hop balls going over the bar, teams rebuilding, foot and mouth keeping the northern teams out, hawkeye malfunction, dives, headlocks, hair tousling, back doors, front doors, side doors we'll take them all just to win it once."
The saw doctors should revamp thier song and put that in it.

:)

gormdubhgorm (Dublin) - Posts: 990 - 26/07/2016 17:05:04    1890530

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Replying To TheHermit:  "A sure it was I mean we 'only' beat Mayo who did they beat to get to a final, surely not Tyrone???????"
The Hermit. Fair point and you also had Cooper at the top of his game that season. But we met Mayo after being a bit jaded going the scenic route. That's the problem with playing in Ulster. Tyrone were knocked out by Donegal. Donegal were knocked out by Armagh who perhaps should have won another All Ireland but were knocked out by Fermanagh. A safer route that year and I'd say either Tyrone or Armagh would have done better.

tyroneed (Tyrone) - Posts: 753 - 26/07/2016 18:13:57    1890574

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Replying To tyroneed:  "The Hermit. Fair point and you also had Cooper at the top of his game that season. But we met Mayo after being a bit jaded going the scenic route. That's the problem with playing in Ulster. Tyrone were knocked out by Donegal. Donegal were knocked out by Armagh who perhaps should have won another All Ireland but were knocked out by Fermanagh. A safer route that year and I'd say either Tyrone or Armagh would have done better."
Two good games in Croker that day. Fermanagh beat Armagh and ourselves and yerselves.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7359 - 26/07/2016 19:46:04    1890611

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Replying To tyroneed:  "The Hermit. Fair point and you also had Cooper at the top of his game that season. But we met Mayo after being a bit jaded going the scenic route. That's the problem with playing in Ulster. Tyrone were knocked out by Donegal. Donegal were knocked out by Armagh who perhaps should have won another All Ireland but were knocked out by Fermanagh. A safer route that year and I'd say either Tyrone or Armagh would have done better."
Fermanagh were taken to a replay in the semi-final because of a poor decision by the ref. Mortimer was given a 20m free when he was actually fouling the ball, for the equaliser. In the final, Kerry targeted the full-back and destroyed him. Had Fermanagh made it through, Kerry could not have used this tactic as Fermanagh had the best full-back in the game at that time. They probably would have won anyway as the occasion might have got to Fermanagh. Because of the way Fermanagh played that year and their behaviour despite the way in which Armagh and Mayo targeted their star midfielder, McGrath and despite a referee's decision, I have always had a soft spot for them since. ( Ironic that they again suffered from poor referring again against Mayo this year)

neverright (Roscommon) - Posts: 1648 - 26/07/2016 20:19:47    1890629

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Bray Emmett's 1902 All Ireland on behalf of Dublin was a cheap lucky one. Should have been Wicklow's first All Ireland!!

Wicklowman (Wicklow) - Posts: 1138 - 26/07/2016 22:23:23    1890694

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Replying To Wicklowman:  "Bray Emmett's 1902 All Ireland on behalf of Dublin was a cheap lucky one. Should have been Wicklow's first All Ireland!!"
To the best of my knowledge Bray Emmett's pitch is in Co. Dublin so maybe that's why the Dubs claimed that All Ireland title.

OLLIE (Louth) - Posts: 12224 - 26/07/2016 22:45:00    1890702

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Replying To Wicklowman:  "Bray Emmett's 1902 All Ireland on behalf of Dublin was a cheap lucky one. Should have been Wicklow's first All Ireland!!"
Do (Did?) Bray Emmett's play in Dublin or Wicklow Championship ?

bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1356 - 27/07/2016 14:39:44    1890970

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