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Replying To KYTitletown: "If this happened Dublin would win 10 in a row at least with the knock-out system there's a always a chance even if it's slim, if it was a league system it'd be like the French soccer league with PSG running away with it every year." If the league was to determine the All Ireland winners do you think J MC Guinness would not have put more emphasis on the league.
As regards Dublin winning ten in a row I don't think you countered into the equation trips to Ballybofey Killarney Omagh Castlebar etc
They would get to play a lot less games in Croke park.
SamOnErrigal (Donegal) - Posts: 1427 - 25/07/2016 22:01:21
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Mayo lacked that ability to seize the day in 2013. It still seems like the loss that will haunt that team
Seems to who ? The 6 other losses haunt as well. We never looked like we could win that game. We didn't take enough scores in the first half to try and go and win the game when we dominated. Games are traditionally won in the second half and in a game when neither team reached their potential Dublin did the right things at the right time.
1996 was the only final since '51 that we had a real chance of winning. In my opinion that was the best Mayo team since '51 to contest an All Ireland Final. It was a very good Meath team that beat us. It wasn't bad luck that let the baĺl bounce over the bar the first day, it was poor defending. Also a few more points taken could have sealed the deal. Many Mayo people blame the bad luck of McHale being sent off as the reason we lost the replay. It had nothing to do with it. Again chances not taken against Boylan's Meath who would never stop trying until the final whistle and were worthy winners. We should have questioned after that final how we were good enough to get so close and what to do to improve to make us winners. I think it's a failing that if any wants to make constructive criticism of their team that many see it as disloyalty.
For me putting an All Ireland win down to luck is denial and/or sour grapes. Kerry fell asleep in '82 looking up at Sam knowing they were minutes from immortality. Read Kings of September, maybe the greatest GAA book ever written. Offaly were no also-rans that day. Lost to Kerry in the '81 final, with a lot of class footballers including the great Matt Connor.
How can the Dubs beating Kerry in 2011 be lucky? Kerry? The greatest if them all. Dublin capitalised for the goal, intentional pun.
Donegal in '92. Not luck. Complacent Dubs who had the All Ireland winners t-shirts printed and fire and determination from Donegal. Fair play to them. They beat us in the semi final, one of the worst ever games in Croke Park.
It is a myth that there are lucky All Irelands. Teams train hard for success. Otherwise they wouldn't train and turn up with horshoes and 4 leafed clovers.
GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7359 - 25/07/2016 22:15:59
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Replying To commercials1: " Replying To Cockney_Cat: "The luckiest team to have ever won a Football All-Ireland has to be Tipperary in 1900. Kilkenny beat Tipperary in the 1900 All-Ireland semi final , 1-7 to 0-8. [Yes, we're talking football The game was refixed following an objection by Tipperary, Kilkenny refused to play, so the match was awarded to Tipperary. Tipperary went on to win the All Ireland final beating Galway 2-20 to 0-1."
county man (Limerick) - Posts: 1102 - 25/07/2016 22:17:45
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Replying To clondalkindub: "How am I anti? Cause I said you's were lucky in '14 or cause I said we beat you by ten plus points in the league final? I've stated a million times on here Gooch is the greatest forward I've ever seen , A lot of the time hermit gives us stick so I give it back. No one on here gets more stick than Dublin so we have to give it back." Ah come off it Clondalkin, Kerry get's way more agro than Dublin on here and most of the time its Dublin posters doing it.
Calling our title in 2014 lucky just because the Dub's couldn't make the final is a case in point.
TheHermit (Kerry) - Posts: 6354 - 25/07/2016 22:23:20
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It's a knockout competition - unless a team is totally dominant - Kilkenny 2008 springs to mind there will be a game that has a moment - missed chance - lucky decision - fluke goal that has a key bearing on that game and hence ultimately the outcome of the competition
Donegal won in 2012 -
Penrose hit the post in the Tyrone game
McFadden got a goal from a sideline v Kerry and a goal from a missed point v Mayo
Kerry sub missed an easy chance before Lacey's winner
Cork hit the crossbar
We lost in 2014 - durcans slip a key factor
In 2011 semi McFadden hit the crossbar early in second half
Dublin had luck v Mayo last year
Kerry had luck v Mayo and Donegal year before
Pick most AI winners and you'll find some rub of the green
That said better teams invariably come through - better chance of winning an all Ireland if you win 5 on merit and lucky in one - than need to be lucky in 6 !
ruanua (Donegal) - Posts: 4966 - 25/07/2016 23:22:56
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I don't know about lucky but you can be unlucky in a final...id love to find out what it's like to be a lucky All Ireland winner.
yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11236 - 25/07/2016 23:32:09
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Replying To clondalkindub: "How am I anti? Cause I said you's were lucky in '14 or cause I said we beat you by ten plus points in the league final? I've stated a million times on here Gooch is the greatest forward I've ever seen , A lot of the time hermit gives us stick so I give it back. No one on here gets more stick than Dublin so we have to give it back." Were ye not lucky in 95?
Ye had a man sent off who didn't leave the field for 10/15 mins after.
And the Peter canavan free at the end.
KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 26/07/2016 00:19:00
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How the hell were Kerry coasting for about 60 mins in 2011, it was nip and tuck for 50 odd mins of that game, and we were winning at half time
Cork were winning by 3 points in 1983 and we scored a great goal in the last minute, then we destroyed them in the replay, again, nothing too much down to luck there!
realdub (Dublin) - Posts: 8596 - 26/07/2016 00:56:26
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I always thought Dublin's win over Tyrone in 1995 involved a lot of luck
GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 26/07/2016 05:08:14
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Replying To gormdubhgorm: "Off the top of my head in football I can think of 3 lucky all-ireland wins.
1982- Offaly beating Kerry with a late goal
1992- Donegal beating Dublin missed pen changed the course of the game.
2011- Dublin won the all-ireland against the run of play during the match as a whole. Kerry were coasting for about 60 mins. Then they were caught with a goal from nowhere. If cluxtons final point did not go over, there is little doubt Kerry would have won the replay.
To me an all Ireland eventually comes down to a knock out phase. It is much easier to get a lucky cup win rather then win a proper league system (like other sports) which takes much more consistency resulting in less shocks as a result." Not necessarily about getting a bit of luck in the final every team needs that to win
However the path to winning the all Ireland is what makes a lot of kerry all Irelands soft or lucky .... not their fault but it's the way the system is
Even their great team of the 00's got lucky in that even the all Irelands they won they never had to take out a top team to win them .... mayo seemed to keep beating the dubs .. and Tyrone and then flopping in AI final day against kerry !
rossy15 (Roscommon) - Posts: 619 - 26/07/2016 06:44:33
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Replying To keithlemon: "No, there is merit in the statement gorm, I mean there's no comparing some teams all-Ireland victories to others e.g. Kerry 2004 vs Tyrone 2005. In that example, you could argue that it's not Kerry's fault nor luck that the opposition they faced that year was relatively poor bar Limerick in the Munster final that year. They beat what was in front of them and the history books won't say any different. But it was lucky that the draw worked out for them the way it did.
There are others that I'd put in the same boat though:
Cork 2010 - Cork were lucky that Dublin conceded so many free's and a penalty in the semi let alone that Down were arguably one of the weakest teams to appear in an All Ireland final. Yet Down played really well and missed a number of good chances in the final to have pushed the game closer
Kerry 2014 - Kerry were let off the hook by Mayo's wasteful shooting and poor defending in the first game in the semi's, there were some very dodgy refereeing decisions in the second game while Durcan's kickout in the final gifted Kerry that All Ireland
Meath 1996 - A disallowed Dublin goal in the Leinster final in the last minute would have knocked Meath out before the semi's. The bounce of the ball from Colm Coyle's punt lands over the bar in the last minute to earn the draw.
Dublin 1983 - It's not just the fact that they scraped home with 12 men on the pitch in one of the worst games of football we've ever seen but Cork should have beaten Dublin in the semi final that year. In Leinster, Offaly were still reveling from their victory the year before and didn't offer the same contest where they had beaten Dublin 3 years in a row previously. Not to mention the fact that Dublin drew with Meath in the Leinster quarter final that year.
Kerry 1981 - You could argue that Kerry were simply that good and that they just blew everyone away that year. In my own opinion that was Kerry at their peak, I don't think a best of the country combined that year would have stopped them. But you could also argue the other way and say that the opposition that year were simply brutal. Offaly barely put up a fight in the final, while Cork and Mayo both put in absolutely pitiful performances that would make Kildare supporters laugh and say "You call that defending!!"
Ps I wouldn't class 1992 in there, penalty miss aside, Donegal would have won that game. Dublin thought they only had to show up.
Wasn't there a story about one Dublin footballer going to a wedding the night before?" nothing lucky about 2010 we won it on merit.
Mullerm (Cork) - Posts: 87 - 26/07/2016 07:24:44
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Kerry lads always get very sensitive when the term "lucky/soft All Ireland" is banded around...
Funny that.
jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 26/07/2016 07:26:40
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Replying To commercials1: " Replying To Cockney_Cat: "The luckiest team to have ever won a Football All-Ireland has to be Tipperary in 1900. Kilkenny beat Tipperary in the 1900 All-Ireland semi final , 1-7 to 0-8. [Yes, we're talking football The game was refixed following an objection by Tipperary, Kilkenny refused to play, so the match was awarded to Tipperary. Tipperary went on to win the All Ireland final beating Galway 2-20 to 0-1."
Pinkie (Wexford) - Posts: 4100 - 26/07/2016 08:36:07
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Replying To TheHermit: "Not entirely true Ollie, they wouldn't reduce the train fare initially for the team and they refused to provide the Kerry players with their own coach, like they had done for the journey up for the 1909 final.
They eventually agreed to do both but held firm on not giving discounted tickets to a few officials and family members that wanted to travel with the Kerry players, and that's why Kerry didn't travel.
Interestingly after losing out on such a big pay day due to the All Ireland was cancelled, the railway companies had a massive change of heart. From then on, they usually bent over backwards to accommodate traveling teams and supporters with discounted fares and they began to heavily sponsor GAA competitions, hence why the Inter-provincial competition was called the Railway Cup .
Another example was the Great Southern and Western Railway Company donated a massive silver cup to the GAA in 1913 which was to be awarded to the All-Ireland football champions, Kerry won it in 1913 and because they won it again in 1914 the county was allowed keep the cup in celebration of that achievement." The Hermit there is a bit of truth in that but the real reason is that the Kerry team were afraid to play the mighty Wee County.
OLLIE (Louth) - Posts: 12224 - 26/07/2016 09:12:02
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Yep spot on. All Ireland champions should be determined on a league basis not on a cup knock out basis. Any of the provincial champions for example could have a off day/ shafted by a poor decisions and they're gone. Not a fair system at all but going to stay as the provincial councils won't agree to anything else. Does any other sport determine its champions by a cup knock out?
county man (Limerick) - 25/07/2016 21:13:15
Most sports have a cup, e.g FA cup, competition and league competition. Unlike the others we put a much higher value on the championship at all levels. League format will never replace that.
Superglue (Kerry) - Posts: 1283 - 26/07/2016 09:33:08
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Does any other sport determine its champions by a cup knock out?
county man (Limerick) - Posts:909 - 25/07/2016 21:13:15
yes they do -soccer world cup, euros (last 16 on)
rugby - world cup, european cup, (qfinals on) even latter stages of the leagues are knockout
athletics 100metres in olympics and worlds is knockout
amateur boxing world and european championships -pure knockout
I think all all ireland are hard one -all teams that win get luck along the way - the good teams make the most of it both me and countyman would love for limerick to win a lucky all ireland
janesboro (Limerick) - Posts: 1502 - 26/07/2016 09:37:51
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Replying To gormdubhgorm: "Off the top of my head in football I can think of 3 lucky all-ireland wins.
1982- Offaly beating Kerry with a late goal
1992- Donegal beating Dublin missed pen changed the course of the game.
2011- Dublin won the all-ireland against the run of play during the match as a whole. Kerry were coasting for about 60 mins. Then they were caught with a goal from nowhere. If cluxtons final point did not go over, there is little doubt Kerry would have won the replay.
To me an all Ireland eventually comes down to a knock out phase. It is much easier to get a lucky cup win rather then win a proper league system (like other sports) which takes much more consistency resulting in less shocks as a result." 2011 All Ireland was not a lucky win..
Dublin Led 0-6 to 1-2 at H/T in a very competitive first half. Dublin then scored the first 2 pts of the 2nd Half to Lead 0-8 to 1-2 after 40mins. Kerry then got on top and dominated up until the 62min. This is hardly dominating for 60mins. When the game was there to be won in the last 10mins Dublin out scored Kerry 1-3 to 0-1 with Dublin missing a couple of good chances in the last couple of mins. Kerry created nothing in that last 10mins.
That was a well deserved All-Ireland.
jacktheDub (Dublin) - Posts: 944 - 26/07/2016 09:40:28
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Kerry get more abuse than Dublin on Hoganstand forum are you having a laugh? Hermit stop that now you's get stick but nowhere near are level.
clondalkindub (Dublin) - Posts: 9926 - 26/07/2016 09:46:23
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Replying To KingdomBoy1: "Were ye not lucky in 95?
Ye had a man sent off who didn't leave the field for 10/15 mins after.
And the Peter canavan free at the end." Ah sure Kingdomboy you know by now how the main forum works on here:
Nothing Kerry have ever done is worthy of praise, but those that beat us are exalted to the heavens above - funny that!
TheHermit (Kerry) - Posts: 6354 - 26/07/2016 09:57:41
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Yeah we defo got a bit of luck in 95 no doubt about it but I think that team deserved that bit of luck after all there near misses, 10/15 minutes more like half an hour kingdom boy ha. I can admit we got some luck you say Kerry got luck they go on a mad one "how dare you say the kingdom ever got lucky to win Sam" type of attitude out of them.
clondalkindub (Dublin) - Posts: 9926 - 26/07/2016 09:58:11
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