|
Replying To Greengrass: " Replying To jimbodub: "I think if you see more games like Westmeath v Kildare that without doubt the game is in trouble. No one will want to come and watch that and TBH I don't think the players would want to commit themselves to playing like that either
Unfortunately Donegal beating a tactically naïve Dublin side in 2014 has really kicked all this into overdrive
But that's where the game is at the minute... and if you want to win an AI you have to setup accordingly to combat against such
But it's very important not to celebrate this tactic IMO
It's an ANTI-Football tactic, it's done to reduce risk, but by deploying such tactics and completely committing to it results in a team playing a game that isn't actually football anymore.
There's very little skill in hand passing the ball, there's very little skill in putting men behind the ball, crowding around a fielder, you've seen goading increase off the back of it, you've seen simulation increase off the back of it, the way some describe it as almost "chess" like obviously also like to watch the grass grow, and FYI.... Chess is not an exciting game to watch
So it's just stripping actual skill out of the game, because that's the whole point of that tactic, it gives limited teams the best chance of playing limited football in the most effective way they can.
Unfortunately it's spread like wild fire, and the only way of really combating it is to setup kind of like it. Don't leave yourself exposed to mass counter attacks, hold possession, be patient, try and build a lead, and then just let that overly defensive side remain to play like that until the game is over, or they have no other choice but to commit extra men to attack, and then try to use the extra room to your advantage
It's the nature of the beast at present
In saying that an attack first team like Dublin (but who are also now capable of setting up in a more defensive manner to counter the counter) have won the last 4 NFL Division 1 Championships - going unbeaten in 2016, and under a more attack minded manager have won a couple of All Irelands, so there are some fighting against it and having great success." Dublin are an attack first team because of the fact that they have an abundance of outstanding attacking players . Even Dublin have modified their defensive play because of the very sharp lesson they learned in 2014 . It's easy to be attack minded when you brilliantly talented forwards . No team at the moment have forwards like Dublins"
jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 25/07/2016 12:30:14
1889637
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Greengrass: "Ah here . Just a few midfielders for you, Neil Gallagher, Anthony Maher, Donnchadh Moran, Dennis Bastick, Michael Dara Mc Auley, Brian Fenton, Tom Flynn, Paul Contoy, Gary Brennan, Tommy Moolick, Seamus O Se, Darren Hughes, to name but a few . As for this glorified basketball phrase you should remember that being used in the late seventies to describe football because I certainly do . And as for the rows with your better half mine is only too delighted to see me heading out the door on a Sunday bringing the children with me ." Yes greengrass but how much high fielding does Michael Darragh McCauley do anymore. Dublin a team who can play great football have Cluxton kick every kick out short - that's my point. They might have 8 and 9 on their backs but they don't field ball anymore. It's not even kicked near them anymore. The ball is barely kicked anymore. Football how are ya! As for the wife wanting me out the door to go to matches that is for the future. I've a one and a 3 year old. Not able to concentrate for the full 70 yet. Hopefully it will be football once again when they can.
Wicklowman (Wicklow) - Posts: 1139 - 25/07/2016 12:30:15
1889638
Link
0
|
|
And as for the rows with your better half mine is only too delighted to see me heading out the door on a Sunday bringing the children with me .Greengrass (Louth) - Posts:4385 - 25/07/2016 12:00:44
yeah me too!!
all jokes aside wicklowman would recommend anybody to encourage their kids into sports especially into gaa, if they like they get great benefit from it, once they are playing get yourself involved in coaching the young uns, do it myself its great fun and enjoyment. My lads love going to games they love the puck/kick about on the pitch after games as do I.
janesboro (Limerick) - Posts: 1502 - 25/07/2016 13:20:22
1889679
Link
0
|
|
Replying To janesboro: "And as for the rows with your better half mine is only too delighted to see me heading out the door on a Sunday bringing the children with me .Greengrass (Louth) - Posts:4385 - 25/07/2016 12:00:44
yeah me too!!
all jokes aside wicklowman would recommend anybody to encourage their kids into sports especially into gaa, if they like they get great benefit from it, once they are playing get yourself involved in coaching the young uns, do it myself its great fun and enjoyment. My lads love going to games they love the puck/kick about on the pitch after games as do I." I have been involved in coaching for years. I love it. I've had to take a step back with my recent arrivals and look forward to getting back into things when they are older. I teach kids the skills of the game and to enjoy it. I will never train them to take a short kick out. Keep possession yes to a point, but nothing beats a clever incisive kick pass that splits a defence open. I hope the art is not gone!
Wicklowman (Wicklow) - Posts: 1139 - 25/07/2016 13:59:41
1889712
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Wicklowman: "Many people will be able to relate to my circumstances. I was raised in a GAA family, primarily hurling, but with a keen interest in football too. We followed our clubs in both codes in every grade, followed our county champions into Leinster. I briefly played underage and minor for my county. I grew up following the greats of the game nationally, the Jack O'Shea's, the Anton O'Toole's, the Plunkett Donaghy's, the Liam McHale's. These were greatest artists of the game - the high fielders. Though Wicklow never made the breakthrough, we always had excellent midfielders in Pat O'Byrne and Fergus Daly. With current 'tactics' in GAA this incredible art, the art that made the crowd roar and made people rise from their seats is near extinction. Growing up I would always look forward to the midfeld battle. Everyone knew the midfielders on all teams. Does anyone know who is in midfield anymore - they are so irrelevant these days - Sean Kavanagh maybe, Rory Kavanagh is another, Michael Murphy occasionally plays a half at midfield. The product in terms of what I have seen this year in championship has been pitiful. Wexford Kildare 0-7 to 0-9. Dublin v Meath in the last 20 minutes was really sad to watch. The hurling today and throughout this championship has been poor fare with this defensive structure they are rigidly adhering to. This isn't the game I grew up with. The future is not bright if this continues. I'm sure like many others I want to see rise off the seat moments. Moments of sheer brilliance, good football, but apparently that's naive football these days. I'm now a retired club player with a wife and 2 children. Pressure is on for Sundays to be family time. My wife isn't the world's biggest GAA fan. I stand my ground because I love the games. I want my son and daughter to play the games when they are old enough. However, the product on show in both Gaelic Football and in more recent times hurling has made that argument harder to justify. Call a spade a spade. the product is poor and getting poorer and it kills me to say it. We are going to lose people in the droves if the games are not watchable and entertaining. Who wants to watch a form of glorified field Basketball and a game where a goalkeeper who has the ability to strike a ball 100 yards hits a short one to his corner back who cannot hit it that far. Is that worth the argument with the missus about Sunday being family time?" Shouldn't this thread be called Is the GAA midfield product worth the bother?
Cavanagh
Lynch
Eoin Donnelly
McKiernan
O'Se
MDMC
Hughes
Brennan
There's a whack of midfielders that can all field a high ball and hold on to it when hitting the ground. You only see what you want to see.
gotmilk (Fermanagh) - Posts: 4971 - 25/07/2016 14:02:44
1889714
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Greengrass: "Green and red tinted glasses ." I have wackier ideas !
GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7360 - 25/07/2016 14:18:45
1889734
Link
0
|
|
Don't agree that's there's no skill to hand passing. It takes a lot of coordination to move the ball up the field quickly with men running off the shoulder.
I've no problem with teams defending with 9 maybe 10 men behind the ball, there's still skill to defending well like that. Any more than that is ultra defensive, dull and anti-football.
There wasn't a lot of skill in by gone eras of lads lumping the ball forward as quickly as they could.
The high-fielding will begin to return again as teams start to push up more on short kick-outs.
There are still edge of your seat moments with great scores being taken. The quality of score taking has never been higher. Even in the 2 poor games of Dublin Meath and the Ulster final there were some cracking scores from the likes of Cavanagh, Connolly, Flynn and Harte.
I truly don't believe that the game is in as bad a shape as some would have you believe.
I think we've also been unfortunate this year, some of the higher profile televised games have been duds. Some of the qualifier games have apparently been crackers.
It's a little frustrating RTE tend to focus on games in the provincial championships involving the big counties. Those games are usually no contests. Maybe if games were chosen more based on the closeness of the match ups we'd be in for better viewing.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4236 - 25/07/2016 14:35:28
1889753
Link
1
|
|
once the gaa are being hit in the pocket and with viewing figures nosediving,they will eventually take heed.
perfect10 (Wexford) - Posts: 3929 - 25/07/2016 14:41:04
1889760
Link
2
|
|
Replying To GreenandRed: "I have wackier ideas !" I look forward to hearing them .o
Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 25/07/2016 15:24:03
1889793
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Wicklowman: "Yes greengrass but how much high fielding does Michael Darragh McCauley do anymore. Dublin a team who can play great football have Cluxton kick every kick out short - that's my point. They might have 8 and 9 on their backs but they don't field ball anymore. It's not even kicked near them anymore. The ball is barely kicked anymore. Football how are ya! As for the wife wanting me out the door to go to matches that is for the future. I've a one and a 3 year old. Not able to concentrate for the full 70 yet. Hopefully it will be football once again when they can." Who are "they". There are plenty of high fielding midfielders in today's game and some of them are in that list I gave you. High fielding doesn't happen as often as it used to. However goalkeepers are far more adept at kicking the ball out than they used to be. They can land the ball into a runners chest from seventy yards . You may get used to it because there's no going back to the days of spitting in to your hands and booting the ball out the field.
Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 25/07/2016 15:29:03
1889797
Link
0
|
|
Replying To perfect10: "once the gaa are being hit in the pocket and with viewing figures nosediving,they will eventually take heed." Hasn't happened yet.
Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 25/07/2016 15:30:43
1889800
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Wicklowman: " Replying To Cockney_Cat: "Wicklowman (Wicklow) -
The hurling today and throughout this championship has been poor fare with this defensive structure they are rigidly adhering to.
Would you explain to me what this "defensive structure" is that Kilkenny and Tipperary are "rigidly adhering to"?" Cockney Cat- I do apologise. Kilkenny and Tipperary are exceptions. They do just go out and hurl. I really was talking about the others and the game and where it seems to be headed in general."
mr305 (Galway) - Posts: 46 - 25/07/2016 16:04:09
1889830
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Greengrass: "Hasn't happened yet." Certainly has happened Greengrass. People are staying away. One poster had statistics on that. It's a poor spectacle. You can convince yourself that people are going to endlessly watch whatever is thrown up, but you'd be foolish to think so. As one poster said previously, teams need to be encouraged to play attractive football again even if that means punishing them. Free in if the goalie doesn't kick the ball out past the 40 yard line.
Wicklowman (Wicklow) - Posts: 1139 - 25/07/2016 16:19:50
1889846
Link
0
|
|
The crowds in Ulster are up while Munster and Leinster are down and in his column yesterday Spillane blamed Ulster for this. Nothing to do with Dublin being treated like a God and given everything by the GAA and Kerry being crowned every year for Leinster and Munster in dire straits........... NO it's all the Nordies fault. CRAZY!
Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9706 - 25/07/2016 17:46:08
1889913
Link
1
|
|
Replying To brendtheredhand: "'Bother' you say, if that is really how you see the GAA then I suggest you look for alternatives, me, I like my games home grown and relevant, I'll take it, warts and all." Must be careful what you say on this "discussion" board brend - if you disagree with anything you may be called a smart arse.
Brolly (Monaghan) - Posts: 4472 - 25/07/2016 17:49:41
1889916
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Wicklowman: "Brolly - think like that if you want. Smart arse response. I love the GAA I am entitled to express an opinion that I don't like where the games are going. I have spoken to many people about this. I'm far from on my own. The product must entertain. That's a simple concept. That or people will stay away especially people who are time poor. Tell me Brolly, have you been entertained by this years championships??" It's just the constant moaning and whining etc that is annoying me at this stage. So our game has taken a more defensive approach over the last few years but it will evolve once again.
To answer your question, I have been highly entertained by a number of games this year. What constitutes entertainment for you wicklowman may not be the same for me, or indeed others. I like to watch tight, hard-hitting tense games. It doesn't have to be free-scoring for me.
Have a look back at some of the All-Ireland Gold games that TG4 used to show - some were absolutely brutal!!!
Look at this year - isn't it wonderful to see Clare and Tipp in the last 8? Galway and Tyrone recapturing provincial titles? Dublin, Tyrone, Mayo, Cork, Donegal all with a chance of winning it. I enjoy the product on show right now - and I'm entitled to do so.
Brolly (Monaghan) - Posts: 4472 - 25/07/2016 17:58:27
1889922
Link
1
|
|
Wicklowman Cluxton does kick it to his free defenders cause the opposition forwards are up the other end of the field playing as sweepers so why wouldn't he? But for the sake of football I'd have no problem if a rule was brought in were he'd have to kick it passed the 45 metre line, if this made the game better then as I said I'd have no problem with him kicking long but why should we be punished for playing against defensive team right now?
clondalkindub (Dublin) - Posts: 9926 - 25/07/2016 19:34:12
1889972
Link
0
|
|
I like to watch tight, hard-hitting tense games.
The strange thing is Brolly, the first half was the least intense Ulster F I've ever seen, not a hand being laid on the opposition until they reached the '40. Things improved somewhat in the 2nd half but it was still a strange sight.
commercials1 (Limerick) - Posts: 115 - 25/07/2016 19:54:15
1889983
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Greengrass: "Hasn't happened yet." I've just read an article on the42 which discusses the GAAs financial report for 2015 which says that attendances for championship football were up by 19% on 2014. The attendances in Ulster were up for the fifth successive year .
Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 25/07/2016 21:41:52
1890039
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Brolly: "It's just the constant moaning and whining etc that is annoying me at this stage. So our game has taken a more defensive approach over the last few years but it will evolve once again.
To answer your question, I have been highly entertained by a number of games this year. What constitutes entertainment for you wicklowman may not be the same for me, or indeed others. I like to watch tight, hard-hitting tense games. It doesn't have to be free-scoring for me.
Have a look back at some of the All-Ireland Gold games that TG4 used to show - some were absolutely brutal!!!
Look at this year - isn't it wonderful to see Clare and Tipp in the last 8? Galway and Tyrone recapturing provincial titles? Dublin, Tyrone, Mayo, Cork, Donegal all with a chance of winning it. I enjoy the product on show right now - and I'm entitled to do so." Your original comment to me Brolly was to find a sport that I do enjoy. I do think that is a smartarse response to send from one Gael to another. I've said countless times I love GAA but not much of the current product which I believe will leave us with one man and his dog following it eventually. I am also entitled to that opinion, as you have pointed out so are you.
Wicklowman (Wicklow) - Posts: 1139 - 25/07/2016 22:00:41
1890047
Link
0
|