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From reading comments some say that we can't change rules as it will cause disruption and people saying rule changes like black card did not work out well. I think really the problem is that the main issues are never tackled in rule changes when implemented and that's why rule changes seem to have little positive impact. For me I tinkering around the smaller issues is kind of a waste of time. bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1360 - 20/07/2016 21:44:13 1887289 Link 0 |
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people need to think about what the game was like in the 70s and 80s thebadbounce (Galway) - Posts: 87 - 20/07/2016 22:23:27 1887309 Link 1 |
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Just heard a repeat of Pete McGrath's interview on Newstalk this morning on way to work. Great interview. Summed up exactly the way many people feel Gaelic football is going. Talked about Gaelic football going to be for players who have no spontaneity or creativity, the game will be for robots. bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1360 - 21/07/2016 09:04:23 1887392 Link 0 |
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Rurai Corrigan, Diarmuid Connolly, Ronan O'Neill, Michael Murphy, Connor McManus, Diarmuid O'Connor are just some players of the top of my head that can create something out of nothing.
gotmilk (Fermanagh) - Posts: 4971 - 21/07/2016 10:09:07 1887425 Link 0 |
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I agree with this post. It's why I dislike your obsession with restricting hand passes. It doesn't cut to the heart of the matter at all. The problem is that teams have little incentive to push out from their 45 to defend. Hand passing rules do not change that. Teams are playing keep ball when faced by a mass defense. Can be executed just as effectively by kick passing. The Galway Roscommon game possibly less so due to the conditions. The weather in that game made it easier to dispossess the man in the ball. Teams still didn't go for it. It really makes it a difficult problem to solve. If teams want to be ultra defensive, it's hard to stop them. Getting stricter on the third man tackle is probably the best proposal I've heard here. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4241 - 21/07/2016 11:37:28 1887490 Link 0 |
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First off I have no issue with the game at the minute. How can you enforce the third man tackle when you don't know what the tackle is. When does the third man tackle become a tackle? When third man makes contact or when hes within two foot of the player? If you want to bring teams from outside the 45 you have to give them a reason to come out. If a point outside the 45 becomes more valuable, teams will be forced to defend further up the field. This theoretically should increase the space inside as players are forced to step out to stop a more valuable score. gotmilk (Fermanagh) - Posts: 4971 - 21/07/2016 12:02:40 1887514 Link 0 |
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Yes, I agree that there is players who can do some great things but most of the game is taken up with players playing to a monotonous defensive system and not enough spontaneity in it. What I found interesting in what Pete McGrath said was here was a manager who has been immersed in the GAA for most of his life, has trained teams for years and still trains teams and is in a good position to see the trends in how Gaelic football has been played over many years does not like the direction Gaelic football is heading (all defensive systems). It is not in his interest to say this (as he is a current manager of an inter county team and it would have been far easier to say positive things about it) but still said it. It seems to me that few like the direction inter county Gaelic football is going (not just spectators but those involved with county teams) but the GAA are just letting the game drift this way and have made no effort to do anything about it. bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1360 - 21/07/2016 13:31:08 1887604 Link 1 |
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The simplest answer is for the referees to use the rules in the rule book and not their own interpretation. 4 or 5 players defenders or forwards on top of a ball carrier belting away not caring whither they hit the ball is ridicules. cluichethar (Mayo) - Posts: 454 - 21/07/2016 14:09:34 1887642 Link 1 |
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I think a style of keeping most of your players back followed moving the ball between mostly unmarked players between both 45m line's is strongly linked to playing a large number of handpasses. Forcing the players to kick the ball more often makes it make it much harder to play defensively I think (it is much harder to kick short distances and there would be more interceptions/ block downs/ balls breaking etc.). At times if they wanted to do handpassing movements they might have to mix in flicking the ball onwards first time with the hand into these handpassing movements (which again might allow an opportunity for interceptions). Would managers set up as defensively if they knew they couldn't hand pass the ball limitlessly between players when they get the ball back? (as they currently do), remember keeping most players back requires mostly moving the ball between players near each other when you get it back as you have few players forward. Would opposition managers be more inclined to attack a team who had all their players back if they knew the opposition could not just handpass the ball around them? bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1360 - 21/07/2016 16:53:36 1887796 Link 0 |
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You ever think players would retreat deeper to receive a kick pass? I swear to god you are wanting football to return to an era that never existed.
gotmilk (Fermanagh) - Posts: 4971 - 21/07/2016 18:09:30 1887842 Link 0 |
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If they continuously retreated deeper to receive these passes where would the scores ever come from ?. It would make managers view keeping everyone as a less effective strategy I think.
bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1360 - 21/07/2016 23:28:43 1887972 Link 0 |
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Same place they are coming from at the minute. They just wait for their moment, someone to step out of position. If you watch sides who actually break through a tight defensive structure it is with the handpass and runners off the shoulder.
gotmilk (Fermanagh) - Posts: 4971 - 22/07/2016 09:15:08 1888019 Link 0 |
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Do you think the current defensive setups of teams would be as effective in winning matches if the handpass was limited to say 1 or 2 consecutive handpasses ?.
bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1360 - 22/07/2016 10:53:22 1888075 Link 0 |
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http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=250696
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4241 - 22/07/2016 11:12:26 1888089 Link 0 |
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I think the game would be worse as a spectacle and yes i do think that it would be just as defensive.
gotmilk (Fermanagh) - Posts: 4971 - 22/07/2016 11:12:58 1888090 Link 0 |
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I actually do agree with you if handpassing was limited and teams still set up as defensively it would be a bad spectacle. I still think that if teams knew they had not the unlimited opportunity to handpass out of defence you make defensive systems much less effective and therefor employed by teams much less. It now feels like we are debating the chicken and egg which came first conundrum!.
bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1360 - 22/07/2016 12:11:02 1888125 Link 0 |
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The ultra defensive syructures are almost redunadant now jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20601 - 22/07/2016 12:48:19 1888147 Link 0 |
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"If the aim was to increase the number of long kicks in the game and reduce defensive tactics, it didn't work. And it won't work. In fact, it will make games more defensive as teams can drop off, inviting the opposition on to them," Whelan told the Irish Independent. Notice he mentions "If the aim was to increase the number of long kicks ......" If the restriction on handpass was aligned with Brolly's suggestion of kickouts must travel beyond the 45 and be contested initially by only two players from each time, would I believe make a huge difference and make the limited handpass rule more effective. bogger from meath (Meath) - Posts: 226 - 22/07/2016 12:59:36 1888151 Link 0 |
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Surely it hasn't been figured out if it's just been copied?
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4241 - 22/07/2016 13:05:40 1888155 Link 0 |
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Ah here man.. too deep for something very unimportant ha-ha It hasn't been completely copied as Kerry and Dublin have adapted themselves to defeat it now It's not a direct copy job - but it is using a similar approach to counter the counter and it works!!! If Kerry had of figured out things and perhaps swallowed a bit of pride and lost a wee bit of ego in the 00's Setup properly to counter act it... Tyrone wouldn't have beaten them as much as they did IMO Gilroy and M Whelan figured things out in 2010.. and Kerry followed suit especially since EF took over Stupidly Dublin forgot some hard learned lessons in 2014, Kerry didn't and won the All Ireland. All Dublin plays against now is every single team dropping men back... they are probably the most versed and practiced team in beating a blanket defence team, when the time is right, Dublin can also setup correctly now when playing teams that are better versed in that tactic. jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20601 - 22/07/2016 13:40:54 1888172 Link 1 |