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Rule changes to counter negative tactics

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Replying To bumpernut: "'You're looking for it but there is no special example of a sport that's so beautifully pure and flowing that cynicism doesn't exist' Precisely... and as soon as new rules are introduced to combat it loopholes are found and exploited so it becomes a vicious circle" Managers and players play to win. That is what they should do. They will try to find the most effective way to do this. Its up to the GAA authorities organise and administrate the rules of the game. I think most GAA people feel football has got stuck in a rut and I personally think the GAA should now act decisively to move it in a different direction. After that if needs be I see no issues with tweeking the rules in the future. bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1360 - 19/07/2016 19:14:30 1886593 Link
Replying To bdbuddah: "Its fairly obvious that a game with more kicking, less handpassing and where the ball moved quicker towards the oppositions half existed in the past. Where I and some others often see as people dreaming is when manager sends out a team with a simple plan where most of their players block off space in front of their goal and then be available to take a handpass is imagined to have hatched an ingenious and thoughtful tactical plan after the event." So when was this era? gotmilk (Fermanagh) - Posts: 4971 - 19/07/2016 19:26:00 1886604 Link
Replying To gotmilk: "Fair enough congress pass a rule that 4 players have to remain in their own half. Now I'm playing wing half forward and there are three men inside from my team and i'm the only fella on the 40. My man takes off on a gallop and i can't follow him as I have to remain in the opposition half. Now this man gets the ball and puts in the back of the net because no one is marking him. From a coaches or fans point of view how do you work on stopping that?" You don't work on stopping it you just let it happen. Or else there is a restriction on defenders also and the full forward and full back lines of both teams can't move outside of the 45 whether they want to or not. uibhfhaili1986 (Offaly) - Posts: 1296 - 19/07/2016 19:50:07 1886623 Link
Replying To uibhfhaili1986: "You don't work on stopping it you just let it happen. Or else there is a restriction on defenders also and the full forward and full back lines of both teams can't move outside of the 45 whether they want to or not." You just let a team score? Are you serious??? Sure why bother stepping on to the pitch? gotmilk (Fermanagh) - Posts: 4971 - 19/07/2016 20:58:28 1886651 Link
Suggestions to limit certain numbers of players to certain sections of the pitch would be nigh on impossible for a referee alone to monitor. The only way something like that would work would be to have two assistant referees whose ONLY job was to monitor that each team does not exceed their limit of 6, 7, 8 players (or whatever) in the "defensive zone". If they exceed that number, the assistant informs the ref, it's a technical foul and a free-in to the attacking team (subject to the advantage rule). At club level it would be difficult to get that many officials in order to implement the rule properly but how prevalent are blanket defences at club level? ballydalane (Kilkenny) - Posts: 1246 - 19/07/2016 21:46:50 1886689 Link
Replying To gotmilk: "You just let a team score? Are you serious??? Sure why bother stepping on to the pitch?" I said you could just have a rule meaning 3 players from each team had to be inside the 45. Then there would be no unfairness. I don't mind really one or the other, something has to be done to improve the game and the GAA waiting around twiddling their thumbs will achieve nothing. If you like the way the game is going and are willing to put up with it then fine, but a very high percentage of people are completely fed up of the type of football we are seeing week in week out and want something changed. uibhfhaili1986 (Offaly) - Posts: 1296 - 19/07/2016 22:11:48 1886704 Link
Replying To ballydalane: "Suggestions to limit certain numbers of players to certain sections of the pitch would be nigh on impossible for a referee alone to monitor. The only way something like that would work would be to have two assistant referees whose ONLY job was to monitor that each team does not exceed their limit of 6, 7, 8 players (or whatever) in the "defensive zone". If they exceed that number, the assistant informs the ref, it's a technical foul and a free-in to the attacking team (subject to the advantage rule). At club level it would be difficult to get that many officials in order to implement the rule properly but how prevalent are blanket defences at club level?" I'd be in favour of implementing it at county level first .I think it would be easy enough to track their and you'd have a severe punishment for breaking the rule so player wouldn't attempt chancing their arm. The rules between county and club don't have to be exactly the same rules differ in many sports depending on what level they are played at and intercounty football and hurling's primary goal should be to be entertaining. uibhfhaili1986 (Offaly) - Posts: 1296 - 19/07/2016 22:14:09 1886706 Link
Replying To uibhfhaili1986: "I said you could just have a rule meaning 3 players from each team had to be inside the 45. Then there would be no unfairness. I don't mind really one or the other, something has to be done to improve the game and the GAA waiting around twiddling their thumbs will achieve nothing. If you like the way the game is going and are willing to put up with it then fine, but a very high percentage of people are completely fed up of the type of football we are seeing week in week out and want something changed." Figures at ulster championship ties suggest differently. Figures at games where there is swashbuckling attacking football with one sided victories would suggest people aren't over the moon with attacking football. gotmilk (Fermanagh) - Posts: 4971 - 19/07/2016 22:40:48 1886733 Link
Replying To gotmilk: "So when was this era?" Its been a trend in the game for many years, say I picked 10 years ago, 10 years ago there would have been less hand passing, more kicking and the ball would have been moved quicker towards the opposition half. Watch games and this is self evident. For me and many others its now an epidemic. As I have been on this website for about the last week regarding the intercounty Gaelic football fare on offer I have made a point of asking people what they thought about games which have taken place recently. People are losing all interest as they find the style of play boring. No one had a positive word to say about recent games. A member of an inter county squad told me he rarely watches football on TV for the last few years due to it being so bad to watch. Another guy at work said he watched a few minutes of Donegal Tyrone game and switched over to golf and said at least more was happening in the golf than the football. Intercounty Gaelic football will become an irrelevance for most people if it is left moving in the direction its going (and also if the competition structure is not looked at but that is a separate debate). bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1360 - 19/07/2016 22:53:50 1886740 Link
Replying To gotmilk: "But that's perhaps how you beat an ultra defensive team you defend and attack as one. Normally it's only two players back. The sweeper and whoever is picking up the one forward." So Ulster final was the perfect match for you? neverright (Roscommon) - Posts: 1648 - 19/07/2016 23:04:15 1886746 Link
Replying To bdbuddah: "Its been a trend in the game for many years, say I picked 10 years ago, 10 years ago there would have been less hand passing, more kicking and the ball would have been moved quicker towards the opposition half. Watch games and this is self evident. For me and many others its now an epidemic. As I have been on this website for about the last week regarding the intercounty Gaelic football fare on offer I have made a point of asking people what they thought about games which have taken place recently. People are losing all interest as they find the style of play boring. No one had a positive word to say about recent games. A member of an inter county squad told me he rarely watches football on TV for the last few years due to it being so bad to watch. Another guy at work said he watched a few minutes of Donegal Tyrone game and switched over to golf and said at least more was happening in the golf than the football. Intercounty Gaelic football will become an irrelevance for most people if it is left moving in the direction its going (and also if the competition structure is not looked at but that is a separate debate)." Really? 10 years? You do realise the term puke football was coined in 2003 as a result of defensive football. Spillane was extremely critical of short passing and defensive football in the 00s and 90s. Article after article was wrote about dire ulster defensive football and their instance on holding on to the ball. If you don't believe me go through the archives of the sunday world. The era you long for never really existed as such. As long as I can remember there have always been people criticising gaelic football. gotmilk (Fermanagh) - Posts: 4971 - 19/07/2016 23:06:58 1886747 Link
Replying To gotmilk: "Figures at ulster championship ties suggest differently. Figures at games where there is swashbuckling attacking football with one sided victories would suggest people aren't over the moon with attacking football." Thats figures for partisan support, which is no judge on anything. In order to fairly analyse any sport is you have to look at it through the eyes of neutrals. Also I suspect there are plenty of people in Ulster who are not happy but are attending out of loyalty. uibhfhaili1986 (Offaly) - Posts: 1296 - 19/07/2016 23:10:02 1886749 Link
Replying To neverright: "So Ulster final was the perfect match for you?" I actually thought the second half was brilliant. High fielding (colm cavanagh catch), outrageous points from both sides. Hard hits (the one on mcglynn) that was perfectly legal, goal chance (although cathal mccarron is not the man you want there) and a game in the balance until the very end. Please tell me what was missing from the second half? gotmilk (Fermanagh) - Posts: 4971 - 19/07/2016 23:23:43 1886754 Link
It would be a disaster for the referees and players to try and keep track of how many players are in a certain area of the pitch and how many hand passes have occurred. I do like the idea of the kick outs having to pass the 45 metre line. DBo183 (USA) - Posts: 16 - 19/07/2016 23:29:18 1886756 Link
The thing is if the ball had to travel beyond the 45 every time you would just have coaches crowding the midfield area with forwards as there would be no need to pick up the defenders. No matter how well meaning rule changes are some one somewhere will try and turn it on it's head. I do thing something like no more than 2 players tackling/engaging the player in possession might be worth a look. Whatever they decide I hope they give it a proper trial first but full implementation. lillyboy (Kildare) - Posts: 429 - 19/07/2016 23:49:14 1886759 Link
Replying To uibhfhaili1986: "Thats figures for partisan support, which is no judge on anything. In order to fairly analyse any sport is you have to look at it through the eyes of neutrals. Also I suspect there are plenty of people in Ulster who are not happy but are attending out of loyalty." I was at the first Donegal Monaghan game, would have been at the reply too only I had a stag in Liverpool. I was trying to get tickets for Sunday's game but got let down twice. Sunday's game had a lot of neutrals at it. gotmilk (Fermanagh) - Posts: 4971 - 19/07/2016 23:51:32 1886760 Link
Replying To bdbuddah: "Its fairly obvious that a game with more kicking, less handpassing and where the ball moved quicker towards the oppositions half existed in the past. Where I and some others often see as people dreaming is when manager sends out a team with a simple plan where most of their players block off space in front of their goal and then be available to take a handpass is imagined to have hatched an ingenious and thoughtful tactical plan after the event." A kicking game was more obvious in the past as it was the style of the top teams. Since Ulster have come to more prominence so has hand passing but it's been part and parcel of the game up here for a long time. Donegal, Derry in the early 90s. I think limiting hand passing now would just be trying to hamper Ulster teams. It doesn't address the boring aspect of the game. The most boring bit of football this year came from the Dubs in the second half versus you guys. They just kick passed the ball around between the 45. Not trying to play it forward, happy to retain possession and kill time. That had nothing to do with the fist pass. Some of the best attacking of the blanket defense this year came from Donegal against Fermanagh. They played short sharp fist passes moving the ball forward quickly to free men. Got 2 goals from it and created another great goal scoring chance. It was excellent football. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4241 - 20/07/2016 00:02:46 1886764 Link
Replying To gotmilk: "Really? 10 years? You do realise the term puke football was coined in 2003 as a result of defensive football. Spillane was extremely critical of short passing and defensive football in the 00s and 90s. Article after article was wrote about dire ulster defensive football and their instance on holding on to the ball. If you don't believe me go through the archives of the sunday world. The era you long for never really existed as such. As long as I can remember there have always been people criticising gaelic football." And I remember being at Meath Kildare games before Tyrone 2003, when Kildare were managed by Mick O' Dwyer in the 1990's and at the time people thought Kildare handpassed a lot. But if you compare it to now it would seem very few handpasses, at that time the conditioning and fitness would have meant players could not physically have been capable of continuous handpassing between each 45m line for 70 minutes. That's what I mean the rule changes have not kept up with how the modern game is played. You say people accused Tyrone of defensive tactics in 2003, well Tyrone 2003 would look like an attack minded force compared to Donegal since 2011 and most teams today. This shows up the trends in how football is played. People gave out in the past about too much handpassing and the defensive nature in the game, the GAA have not really tackled it with meaningful rule changes and the over the years it has got more severe and most teams are playing more defensively each year. Most people find the game hard to watch now. This trend will probably continue if nothing is done (although I don't know can we get much more than the 450 odd handpasses in the original Galway Roscommon game). I am not having a go at Ulster specifically here, defensive football is played everywhere as it is the most effective way to win matches under the current rules. The worst part of the defensive tactics ?, it is bad to watch when 2 of the top teams play it, but to watch it when the teams below the top level play it and it is absolutely horrendous. bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1360 - 20/07/2016 11:47:20 1886896 Link
I personally find football very difficult to watch these days with the defensive set up by teams. All codes update the rules to make their games more attractive, even Gaelic football introduced the fast free from the hands and from the side line to increase the pace of the game. Now its time to put in extra tweaks to liven up the game we all love. Here are a few I think would work at hand. 1) Keep full back and full forward lines in their allocated 40( difficult to patrol put worth trialing) 2) 13 men a side due to increased fitness, this would also help small rural clubs field underage teams 3) Kick outs must be past the 40m line 4) 2 players max allowed to tackle ball carrier. 5) Attacking team cannot pass the ball behind the half way line (not unlike basketball) 6) Widen the goal posts by a metre (increasing more long range point shooting and goal shooting) I think we all want a more attractive game and must move with the times. If our forefathers hadn't tweaked the rules could you imagine us watching a game whereby both teams are 21 a side, where a goal outnumbers any amount of points??? Our forefathers had the where with all to move with the times, its now in incumbent on us to do the same to protect and enhance the game we all love. Durango (Kerry) - Posts: 3 - 20/07/2016 11:52:37 1886898 Link
Replying To Soma: "I believe the strict enforcement of the 4 steps rule would make a real difference as it would give defenders a genuine chance of dispossessing their opponent. Instead the accepted rule now seems to be you can take 4 steps into a tackle and 4 steps out, making a clean dispossession very difficult and this encourages the running game." Is the correct answer Hardtimes (Cavan) - Posts: 1056 - 20/07/2016 12:02:14 1886905 Link