HoganStand GAA Football and Hurling

National Forum

All Refs are Human and and have a life outside GAA

(Oldest Posts First) - Go To The Latest Post

You need to Login to Post

Replying To CroiGorm: "Fermanagh were a point up at the time of the penalty. Also watching it on tv not a single slow motion replay was needed, you could clearly see he dived." I'm with Master on this. AOS conned the ref. But at first viewing on the tele when I saw AOS get out infront of his man and go down I thought, Oh, That looks like a pen. It only took 1 replay though to see he went down easy and the penalty was, at best, debatable waynoI (Dublin) - Posts: 13650 - 12/07/2016 12:17:25 1881692 Link
Still waiting for O'Shea to get an attempted 8 week ban, for a frenzied mainstream media outburst of anti-Mayo moralising (as opposed to mere restrained chat about refs needing assistance or mere comments on Twitter), for RTÉ boyos to talk about the 'bad smell' and for former Meath greats to tweet that O'Shea needs a hiding. Pigs flying overhead, folks. Partitionist double standards you could see from space. essmac (Tyrone) - Posts: 1141 - 12/07/2016 12:27:03 1881706 Link
it grates me when managers and pundits have a go at refs and say it cost us the game but they never go back and look at a bad wide or a player mistake remember a manager in a recent final referring to a refs decision to award late free in 2014 final as criminal - yet with around 10 mins to go one of his players missed a 21 yard free -no mention of his players mistake everybody makes mistakes thats why rubbers are put on the end of pencils - i do think the umpires should be refs and should be able to communicate fully (as should linesmen) re all decisions to the ref. I am also in favour of using the TMO and i think RTE/sky should also ahve an ex ref as a pundit janesboro (Limerick) - Posts: 1502 - 12/07/2016 12:50:02 1881737 Link
Obviously it isn't acceptable for a referee to receive abuse/threats etc. However, if a referee makes a mistake, fans are entitled to criticise his decision. Joe Mc Quillan had a shocker on Saturday, and not only did he make a huge mistake with the AOS penalty, but he also failed to send AOS off for repeated fouling. His performance was in line with the general poor standards of refereeing we have come to expect in the GAA in the past 10 years. It is time the GAA actually look to help referees, by introducing technology to assist them in making big decisions. PK57 (Louth) - Posts:1446 - 12/07/2016 11:06:12 Criticism has to be fair and not what currently passes for 'criticism' from a lot of people Technology isn't needed but clarification on some rules as well as better regulations around what umpires can and cant do etc. How players act towards officials has to change. How many on here have actually ever refereed a match? Not a first round game in the club's annual U10 blitz, but a proper sanctioned league/championship fixture at minor level or higher? Eddie the Exile (Monaghan) - Posts:425 - 12/07/2016 11:19:45 I have but not GAA... Why do you ask? me Referees make mistakes. That's life. Just like every player and every coach makes them Not talking one mistake though Ormond. But unlike life though, a player or coach who makes the same mistakes or isn't up to scratch will soon find themselves either not playing or coaching. With no accountability you reap what you sow and end up with poor referees frustrating players and spectators alike. But hey, let's not criticise them as I am sure they are good family men or give money to charity. Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts:2993 - 12/07/2016 11:56:16 Referees will always hit the spot light and if a mistake is big enough they will and do drop down the grades. There most certainly is accountability towards referees. everybody makes mistakes thats why rubbers are put on the end of pencils - i do think the umpires should be refs and should be able to communicate fully (as should linesmen) re all decisions to the ref. I am also in favour of using the TMO and i think RTE/sky should also ahve an ex ref as a pundit janesboro (Limerick) - Posts:429 - 12/07/2016 12:50:02Umpires should only be referees if they could penalise players but I don't see any need for ex referees to be pundits. Possibly on the odd occasion but for the most part it simply isn't needed ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 12/07/2016 13:46:00 1881798 Link
From what Ive read and heard the ref wasnt criticised or personally abused. His decision to award the penalty , failure to consult umpires who were in a better position and not following rules re issuing of cards has been rightly criticised. Amateur players who put their lives on hold and train for 6 months expect fair play in the implementation of rules. There should be zero tolerance of any personal abuse of refs, players and officials in gaelic games. Curlew66 (Roscommon) - Posts: 507 - 12/07/2016 14:01:11 1881815 Link
No lads, no just stop. Yes referees are just humans like the rest of us. They do their preparations and training just like players do. They travel to the length and breath of the country to attend workshops and review meetings to sharpen their eye and understand the game better, its a thankless job and if they didn't do it we'd have no games. That's the "well done lads your doing a fabulous job" side of it... Let's look back to the most recent wrong call. Mayo v Fermanagh last Saturday, game in the balance and Aidan O'Shea dives. Penalty! The call was 100% wrong. Fermanagh's season was taken from on the basis of a referring error. All the 100's of miles of road to and from training, the personal sacrifice, the strict lifestyle and the dream..capeesh! We come on this forum and Facebook and other social media outlets to so freely and carelessly blast player's for a poor performance, a dirty swipe, a silly tackle etc etc, in fact we rip these players to pieces. Joe Canning is a prime example. Waterford another, they had poor showing where they're system failed them and all of a sudden their public enemy number one for the type of style they use..It is beyond belief that referee's and officials alike just keep having excuses made for them. At intercounty level ALL big calls have to be 100% correct. There is no excuse. TheFullBack (Galway) - Posts: 110 - 12/07/2016 14:25:52 1881835 Link
there is only one person to blame for the penalty incident and that is AOS. as regards the rest of the decisions in the game there were lots of frees given that were not frees and lots of fouls that were not called also some yellows and blacks should have been given but were not . so overall a really bad day at the office for Joe McQuillan. the worst was AOS being ticked, being yellow carded and then ticked again (for a definite card offence). i also thought mayo deserved a penalty before the AOS incident. I believe the Fermanagh back was yellow-carded for the AOS penalty, will he appeal that, if he does appeal that and gets off, where does that leave AOS. I believe AOS should be retrospectively banned as the incident wasn't dealt with by the referee. s goldrick (Cavan) - Posts: 5518 - 12/07/2016 14:35:08 1881848 Link
At intercounty level ALL big calls have to be 100% correct. There is no excuse. TheFullBack (Galway) - Posts:81 - 12/07/2016 14:25:52 18 Fair enough well then at intercounty level all big calls by players and managers also have to be correct. There is no excuse janesboro (Limerick) - Posts: 1502 - 12/07/2016 15:10:51 1881888 Link
Replying To joncarter: "Probably the same number who have slogged for months on end in harsh conditions for no money and then had their dreams dashed by someone who didnt even consult his umpires." I agree, and it seems some people confuse criticism with abuse, and feel nothing negative can be said about a referees performance. The reality is, the referee on Saturday made serious mistakes, that had a big impact on the outcome. Not sending AOS off was a sign of bottling it, when he had been yellow carded, and received two ticks in the refs book, and as for the penalty incident, the referee guessed it was a penalty, rather than consulting the umpires who had a far better view of the incident. There is a fine line between saying a referee made some mistakes, and being incompetent. PK57 (Louth) - Posts: 1655 - 12/07/2016 15:53:15 1881936 Link
Replying To waynoI: "I'm with Master on this. AOS conned the ref. But at first viewing on the tele when I saw AOS get out infront of his man and go down I thought, Oh, That looks like a pen. It only took 1 replay though to see he went down easy and the penalty was, at best, debatable" "I'm with Master on this" You don't say that too often! Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4235 - 12/07/2016 16:47:26 1881978 Link
Replying To Whammo86: ""I'm with Master on this" You don't say that too often!" Maybe he is learning... Seriously though, I genuinely thought at the time that as o'shea turned, the fullback accidentally clipped his leg as he ran and tripped him up. It looked that way in real time. The ref had a similar angle of view to myself too and it looked nailed on from there. As for the guy who said the ref has to get every single decision right. It simply will never happen. He got numerous wrong in this game alone - two resulted in goals. Those are impossible standards to keep for anyone. Finally, I was reading an article, admittedly by billy joe padden, but he had an interesting take on the whole jersey pull part and is usually a fair enough guy. He states that there was a jersey pull prior to the ball being delivered, which is something that hasn't really been explored. It would also explain andy moran's take on it, who seemed adamant about a jersey pull. If that was the case then it is bad form from the ref not making that clear in good time. TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 12/07/2016 17:39:54 1882015 Link
Replying To Whammo86: ""I'm with Master on this" You don't say that too often!" There is no doubt referees have a tough job and I have some sympathy for them. Nobody deserves abuse, whether it is verbal at a game or on social media. But tbf I have not read any abusive comments towards Joe McQuillan on this site. I have read criticism and I believe referees should be open to criticism. In a referees defence some of the rules of this game, particularly rules around the tackle etc are left far too often open to interpretation. I know as a player that once you find out the referee in the leadup to your game, you will often hear "ok this ref is tough on ......... and doesn't like ..........". If players and spectators want consistency across all games then the rules need tightening up so there isn't much room for interpretation. The biggest problem with referees for players and supporters is when you get a ref who referees the game inconsistently even according to his own interpretation. I have met too many referees like this and they are completely unapproachable when you want to ask them what they have given the free for. This is what leads to frustration among players and supporters and then on to anger if the inconsistencies continue. I have met some good refs. They tend to be the ones that enforce the game consistently with their own interpretation and who will talk to/explain things to the players. As for Joe McQuillan on Saturday, I found him inconsistent throughout. He got conned far too often and didn't apply any of the card rules consistently. It was a televised game therefore the criticism is going to be more widespread. lady_gaagaa (Westmeath) - Posts: 97 - 12/07/2016 18:04:02 1882034 Link
Players are also human and have lives outside football. It still hasn't stopped so-called fans from launching very personal attacks on O'Shea and Tiernan McCann and other players who have done silly things in the heat of the moment. McQuillan has been rightly criticised for his refereeing performance the last day, but I don't think I've once seen him referred to as a "cnt" or a "scumbag" or a "disgrace". I've seen all those terms and more used in relation to players who have been embroiled in controversy. People completely lose the run of themselves when incidents like these occur. The hysterical overreaction towards individuals borders on vicious sometimes. ZeitChrist (UK)* - Posts: 154 - 12/07/2016 18:08:12 1882037 Link
Replying To waynoI: "Are you Joe McQuillan in disguise ? Nah but I do agree with ye. Besides its not the referee id be fuming with after the penalty decision, its his umpires." I agree Tom. I think referees gets dogs abuse from people who would be afraid to pick up a whistle. Pinkie (Wexford) - Posts:3467 - 12/07/2016 08:41:21 1881519 Post Reply Link 0 0 Replying To tomsmith: "TomsmithCavan here In relation to errors made or perceived to be made by television pundits who have hours to do analysis I say all Referees are Human. All have a life outside of Football and I feel not one will make a deliberate error. What happened at the weekend could happen in a Junior C game in Cavan, Wicklow or Kerry next weekend So support our Officials who do a great job" Are you Joe McQuillan in disguise ? Nah but I do agree with ye. Besides its not the referee id be fuming with after the penalty decision, its his umpires. waynoI (Dublin) - Posts:11326 - 12/07/2016 08:56:22 18 Waynol Tomsmith here I am not Joe Mc Quillan I am Tomsmith from Cavan Town the home of Cavan Gaels Mr Mc Quillan comes from a Club away out the Road towards Cootehill.. I have to say in support of all Referees that the make a decision in a split second and do not have the benefit of cameras at different angles to see what has happened. These well know pundits have time to mull over event and give a very detailed examination and verdict a few incidents. How often do you see the same press reporters and TV pundits say the Referee got 99.9 % of hi s call correct. I feel that Players/Officials/selectors and supporters should come out and support our Referees. All are human all go out to do a sporting job . Its time that the GAA come out in support of the man in Black tomsmith (Cavan) - Posts: 3861 - 14/07/2016 10:52:55 1882968 Link
tomsmith (Cavan)- We all know that everyone makes mistakes players and ref but are you saying that we should support poor decisions? browncows (Meath) - Posts: 2342 - 14/07/2016 11:08:13 1882979 Link
Replying To TheMaster: "Maybe he is learning... Seriously though, I genuinely thought at the time that as o'shea turned, the fullback accidentally clipped his leg as he ran and tripped him up. It looked that way in real time. The ref had a similar angle of view to myself too and it looked nailed on from there. As for the guy who said the ref has to get every single decision right. It simply will never happen. He got numerous wrong in this game alone - two resulted in goals. Those are impossible standards to keep for anyone. Finally, I was reading an article, admittedly by billy joe padden, but he had an interesting take on the whole jersey pull part and is usually a fair enough guy. He states that there was a jersey pull prior to the ball being delivered, which is something that hasn't really been explored. It would also explain andy moran's take on it, who seemed adamant about a jersey pull. If that was the case then it is bad form from the ref not making that clear in good time." so the ref was playing advantage at the time ?. Did anyone see his hand going up to indicate that he was playing advantage. It doesn't look like it on the video. It also doesn't look like the man who played the ball in was touched at all. I believe he booked Che Cullen for the "foul" too. unless I have the story all wrong s goldrick (Cavan) - Posts: 5518 - 14/07/2016 17:21:09 1883344 Link
Train them, train them, train them and when the GAA is finished with training referees and their supporting officials (especially umpires) they should train some more. Killarney.87 (Tipperary) - Posts: 2513 - 14/07/2016 18:28:27 1883396 Link
Why, Some of the teams train 5 or 6 nights a week makes no sense to me, even if the referee gave them every decision they still would lose, and blame the referee after get a grip lads the players are making far more mistakes than the refs theref (Offaly) - Posts: 7 - 14/07/2016 19:37:23 1883421 Link
There is no doubt referees have a tough job and I have some sympathy for them. Nobody deserves abuse, whether it is verbal at a game or on social media. But tbf I have not read any abusive comments towards Joe McQuillan on this site. I have read criticism and I believe referees should be open to criticism. In a referees defence some of the rules of this game, particularly rules around the tackle etc are left far too often open to interpretation. I know as a player that once you find out the referee in the leadup to your game, you will often hear "ok this ref is tough on ......... and doesn't like ..........". If players and spectators want consistency across all games then the rules need tightening up so there isn't much room for interpretation. The biggest problem with referees for players and supporters is when you get a ref who referees the game inconsistently even according to his own interpretation. I have met too many referees like this and they are completely unapproachable when you want to ask them what they have given the free for. This is what leads to frustration among players and supporters and then on to anger if the inconsistencies continue. I have met some good refs. They tend to be the ones that enforce the game consistently with their own interpretation and who will talk to/explain things to the players. As for Joe McQuillan on Saturday, I found him inconsistent throughout. He got conned far too often and didn't apply any of the card rules consistently. It was a televised game therefore the criticism is going to be more widespread. lady_gaagaa (Westmeath) - Posts:31 - 12/07/2016 18:04:02 I don't see a problem with rules being left open to a referee's interpretation. In Gaelic there is relatively few that can really be left open to interpretation compared to many other sports so its not really an issue Referees being unreasonable when asked why they gave a free isn't fantastic and that doesn't help them get respect from players/coaches and that should change. We all know that everyone makes mistakes players and ref but are you saying that we should support poor decisions? browncows (Meath) - Posts:1044 - 14/07/2016 11:08:13 Who said that? But while referees making wrong decisions shouldn't be criticised completely if they learn. If they consistently are making poor decisions then they must drop a level to where they are comfortable and can cope with the game Train them, train them, train them and when the GAA is finished with training referees and their supporting officials (especially umpires) they should train some more. Killarney.87 (Tipperary) - Posts:1206 - 14/07/2016 18:28:27How do you propose that the GAA train officials? The best way to learn how to manage a game is by getting games and lots of them. A referee should have a minimum of a game a week if not more ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 16/07/2016 13:35:47 1884216 Link
Some of the refs in the game, even at the top level, will never make competent refs even if you were to train them every week of the year. Some are too arragont to learn from their mistakes. Others are too weak to stand up to players/management or the home crowd. Others will always punish the so-called weaker counties whilst allowing players from the stronger counties get away with everything. One particular ref really annoys me by racing the length of the field to give a close in free for holding. All hell can be breaking out in front of him and he apparently can't see it but can see some holding 50 or 60 metres away. This guy is simply trying to give the impression that he is in control of the game when it is clear that he is out of his depth. neverright (Roscommon) - Posts: 1648 - 16/07/2016 14:49:42 1884233 Link