The last thing I'll say on all of this is that Kerry are going into a Q-final not having a clue where they are at after two pretty straight forward wins against game but ultimately limited opponents. After the League final I'd have given anything for us to have come up against a Cork side that was ready to tear into us, bring us to the cliff edge and expose every weakness or fault in our game.

Tyrone and Donegal can both look forward to a game that's going to do that for them and that's only going to be a huge advantage as they prepare for the All-Ireland series.

TheHermit (Kerry) - Posts: 6354 - 07/07/2016 13:04:40    1877865

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4232 - 07/07/2016 13:10:02    1877868

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7865 - 07/07/2016 14:18:50    1877932

Whammo86

Posters were trying to tarnish our great teams and I wasn't going to let the invectives and barbs go unchallenged without stating some facts in reply

You never answered my Galway/Antrim query. They have won 4 AI's combined in Hurling despite automatic entry for years to the semi-finals, Kerry have won 1 title via the Munster minefield! So if Kerry hurlers had free access to the semi finals we'd have won a lot more Liam's right!!!

I don't see how having no test as you say is of any assistance when preparing for a trip to the Coliseum (if we get past QF) to face the Blue Gladiator, by any rational logic playing a number of Division 1 sides would give you some idea what to work on as opposed to finding out on the day when it is too late.

I think it's easily forgotten Cork had the same league points as Donegal who made the semi finals, so to suggest Cork are some third rate team is fantasy, just look at their record in the last decade.

1 AI, 3 AIF Final Appearances, 6 Semi Final Appearances, 4 Leagues, 4 Munsters a rake of underage titles not too shabby (probably should have won another AI or two but still) Tipperary have had as much underage success as anybody outside of Dublin in the country the last 6/7 years. Unfortunately they have to compete seriously with hurling (which hurt them v.badly this year) which Ulster doesn't have to face with at all

KYTitletown (Kerry) - Posts: 816 - 07/07/2016 14:45:04    1877949

e trying to tarnish our great teams and I wasn't going to let the invectives and barbs go unchallenged without stating some facts in reply

My point is I don't think that's what's going on here.

People just are saying the system is unfair now.

This season Kerry had an easy ride. I agree with you though winning Munster isn't a cake walk with Cork in it.

Unfortunately it looks like Cork are struggling at the minute which is bad for the Munster championship.

I don't especially buy into the theory that Ulster teams are losing because they're tired come August but then I'm no expert on sports periodisation. It is definitely harder for Ulster counties to reach the last 8 at the minute but once they're there they probably are more battle tested. Micky Harte will have learned from Cavan this year. In 2014 Dublin were caught cold by Donegal, it was the first proper outfit they'd seen.

Being from Ulster probably has helped these counties be good in the first place. We've a strong provincial championship to get young people interested in. Our championships down through the grades are all very competitive. We also have very little distraction from hurling.

To return though to my main point. I think you're being over defensive. The great Kerry team of the 70s would've won a similar number of titles regardless of their province. Probably more if they were in Connacht and Ulster, maybe less if they were in Leinster.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4232 - 07/07/2016 15:39:31    1877986

Munster counties in hurling aren't looking at Kilkenny's passage through Leinster.

As pointed out previously, Galway's and Antrim's free passage in hurling didn't land them a big haul of All-Irelands.

While a good number of Ulster counties get to Division 1, Ulster is not exactly dominating the division and most of the Ulster teams have a habit of yoyoing between Divisions 1 and 2.

Ulster has a competitive provincial championship to be proud of but it does not always equate to having the best 2 or 3 teams in the land.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7865 - 07/07/2016 21:25:20    1878170

Whammo86

But what difference will it ultimately make?

Did you see the league final? Or the Munster Final?

We will get absolutely destroyed by the Blue Juggernaut if we don't get beaten in the QF first so what difference will a handy Munster title make? It's not like there will be a parade or celebrations down here for winning a Munster Final.

Everyone I talked to after the game said we haven't a hope of even competing with Dublin this year.

I'd much rather face a Tyrone Donegal or Monaghan at least if you lose you would learn something and have to chance to rectify it and build up momentum rather than get found out when it's too late. Every time in the back-door era bar 2012 Kerry lost in Munster we have either won or at least got to the AI final as we were forced to make serious adjustments after losing.

Of course you could get a hard away draw in the back-door but I 100% believe those tough challenges make teams. Indeed I remember when we played a very good Antrim team in 2009 on the back of an Ulster Final and the game was nip and tuck up until the last 7/8 minutes when we pulled away by 5 points those games are way better than playing teams we play year in year out whom frankly speaking are a bit afraid of us due to lack of success over a long period of time. The likes of Sligo and Antrim had no such fear whatsoever and gave us great games

KYTitletown (Kerry) - Posts: 816 - 07/07/2016 21:49:27    1878185

Ulster football was not labelled a hindrance in the early 90's or early 00's. The best teams always get through. Kerry had to fend off Armagh in extra time in a replay in 2000. Ulster has a competitive province. If the best team or teams in any given year come from other provinces that will be reflected in the final and eventual winner.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts:4730 - 07/07/2016 08:03:43

Having a strong Ulster Provincial Championship is a good thing, especially if the top 4 teams are seeded and kept apart for the Quarter final's/Preliminary round. This year provided us with the most balanced Ulster Championship for quite a few years, allowing for two very competitive Semi final's, both requiring replay's and tactical adjustments and learning's for all teams.

The problem with the Ulster Championship in recent seasons was having two of the top sides face of in preliminary round match in late May, and that is where the real problem exists. These two sides had to ramp up their intensity for late May, sustain it then until August. While Kerry didn't play a competitive game until the last week of July, and Dublin didn't play a truly competitive game until late August. Even Mayo struggled to be really challenged last year.

A fresh sharp team is needed for the All Ireland series, and that can be hard when a team has been running at full tilt since April/May. If the top 4 sides in Ulster could be in different QF's, It might change that.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 08/07/2016 01:43:39    1878274

Well then the Ulster Council have a very simple and obvious solution then don't they?

Dont blame Kerry if they don't implement it.

KYTitletown (Kerry) - Posts: 816 - 08/07/2016 11:53:48    1878392

greatpoint (USA) - Posts: 427 - 08/07/2016 12:43:41    1878434

By getting rid of the league play-offs the provincials could be played earlier. All teams could enter the qualifiers at the same stage. The Euros have 24 teams playing from June 10 to July 10, surely the GAA can come up with a better system.

crikey (Australia) - Posts: 355 - 08/07/2016 12:49:03    1878436

KYTitletown (Kerry) - Posts: 816 - 08/07/2016 13:14:17    1878453

TheRightStuff (Donegal) - Posts: 1688 - 08/07/2016 13:36:20    1878469

I don't see how getting no tests before facing Dublin is an advantage.

It'd be like doing the Leaving Cert Maths Honours only having revised and studies Ordinary Level Papers.

The Qualifiers can be very beneficial assuming you don't suffer a debilitating amount of injuries - Kerry have won all 11 (I believe) of their back-door games since its inception.

KYTitletown (Kerry) - Posts: 816 - 08/07/2016 14:33:35    1878510

I read the title and thought "oh nice! A topic about the future" but as usual 90% of the discussions here revert to a bit ching match and talk of the past. Most people on here sound like they are better suited to having conversations in the beauty salon and not the pub. Grow a set lads and grow up.

DoireCityFC (Derry) - Posts: 1580 - 08/07/2016 20:54:22    1878674

crikey (Australia) - Posts: 355 - 08/07/2016 21:33:50    1878688

Your right but I think Ulster improved from 1990 to the present day. I read somewhere that participation rates increased in Donegal. I could be wrong. Going back even further Cavan won a lot of Ulster titles due to Ulster not being competitive. No disrespect to Cavan supporters.
crikey (Australia) - Posts:277 - 08/07/2016 21:33:50

Regardless of how competitive Ulster was, Cavan won those titles because they were the best at that particular time and the sheer number of titles they won clearly shows how dominant they were. I think it is sometimes brought up in defense of sides who have maybe won significantly less titles at this time, as they might have been late developers as football counties.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 09/07/2016 01:09:28    1878741

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4232 - 09/07/2016 23:33:21    1879705

The picture didn't clear up too much last weekend.

All-Ireland Quarter-finals:
Kerry v Galway/Roscommon/3A winner
Galway/Roscommon v Tipperary/3A winner
3A possibilities: Sligo/Clare, Cavan/Derry.

Donegal/Tyrone v Dublin/Westmeath/3B winner
Dublin/Westmeath v Donegal/Tyrone/3B winner
3B possibilities: Mayo/Kildare, Longford/Cork.

All-Ireland Semi-finals:
Ulster Champions/Qualifier v Connaught Champions/Qualifier
Leinster Champions/Qualifier v Kerry/Qualifier

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7865 - 12/07/2016 19:59:06    1882077

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4232 - 12/07/2016 20:12:15    1882085