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AI Football Quarter-finals

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Replying To oakleafersir:  "Put Kerry or Cork to Tyrone , Donegal , Monaghan , Cavan . They would lose in any condition"
You have totally ignored the point perfectly made by the results KYTitletown posted from the 70's and 80's. Very amusing, thank you! ;-)

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7865 - 06/07/2016 22:02:52    1877628

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Replying To KYTitletown:  "Results of AI Semi Finals & Finals between Munster and Ulster winners in the 1970's and 1980's

Cork 5-10 - 2-4 Tyrone
Kerry 5-14 - 1-10 Derry
Kerry 5-14 - 0-7 Monaghan
Kerry 3-15 1-11 Armagh
Kerry 2-10 - 0-9 Monaghan (R)
Kerry 2-15 - 1-10 Tyrone
Cork 1-14 - 0-6 Monaghan

Jeez the Ulster Championship must have been a minefield in that period which took everything out of its champion, what else can explain the point margins cant have been a great Kerry side no sirree,"
Worth remembering that these were the results against the best side in Ulster in each of them years so imagine how the weaker sides would have fared! Maybe hurling would be a lot stronger in places like Derry and Armagh now if these were the annual hammerings their football teams were having to take. I've great respect for footballers in Limerick, Clare and Tipperary who have kept at it all these years.

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 06/07/2016 22:19:29    1877637

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Replying To Soma:  "Worth remembering that these were the results against the best side in Ulster in each of them years so imagine how the weaker sides would have fared! Maybe hurling would be a lot stronger in places like Derry and Armagh now if these were the annual hammerings their football teams were having to take. I've great respect for footballers in Limerick, Clare and Tipperary who have kept at it all these years."
Yeah because all we had to worry about up here in the 70's & 80's was how we were going to fare against the Munster Champions every three years. By the way why did you start this comparison in the 70's? Would it not of been fairer to compare the 60's, or a decade from post ceasefire 90's?

benched (Tyrone) - Posts: 534 - 06/07/2016 23:34:24    1877661

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Replying To TheHermit:  "Jaysus I'm trying to debate with a guy who admires a blowhard like Brolly.

Lesson learned, good luck to you."
Can you read??? I'll say it again "while I'm no big fan of Brolly" and I've little interest in debating anything with you so I'm certainly leaving it here this time.

benched (Tyrone) - Posts: 534 - 06/07/2016 23:47:06    1877662

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Replying To westkerry:  "There's no question that Ulster is the toughest championship and I'm very much looking forward to the Ulster Final.

This argument that Kerry wouldn't have won as many championships as they have if they were in Ulster is complete rubbish.
Kerry & Dublin for that matter have beaten the best of Ulster consistently but don't let facts get in the way of the Truth.

As for GerryMac, I'll enlighten you Kerry is the Kingdom because if you ever stepped foot in it you'd realise why.
Nothing to do with football."
I did visit in 2011 for a weekend, stayed in the Gleneagles and did the ring of Kerry, as well as an expensive horse/kart trip.

Kerry looked very like Donegal, except with far more tourists and coaches.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 07/07/2016 01:16:48    1877673

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Replying To Whammo86:  "Very reasoned post.

Everyone comments on the flaws of the provincial system but there are some very good aspects to it.

Supporters are interested in the provincial championships more than they would be otherwise.

There's prestige to winning your provincial championship that has been built up over years.

The qualifiers despite being good for players hasn't come close to capturing the imagination that a provincial championship match contains, that is evident in the attendances.

It'd be hard to see a structure not including the provincial championships being anything other than a little bit dull in the opening rounds.

Much worse than it is now.

There's proper build up to games like Derry v Tyrone and Meath v Dublin even though the games themselves turned out to be damp squibs."
Exactly, take away the provincial championship and you rip out the GAA's soul.

What is the GAA if it's not first and foremost a badge of community and identity, be it at parish or county level. What helps sustain that sense of community and dentity? Its the contests and rivalries with neighbouring clubs, townlands, counties that have been fostered for generations. The provincial championship is a huge part of that because your biggest rivals will always be the ones closest to you, us and Cork, Meath and Dublin, Derry and Tyrone etc.

I've no issue with changing things around so that once the provincial competitions are done, everyone is on an equal footing. But don't destroy something that's so integral to our games for some champions league group system simply because it gaurantees everyone 6 or 8 games.

I want to see Kerry and Cork down in Killareny playing for silverware, pride and the bragging rights, not watch Kerry play someone like Wexford in some dead rubber match in some meaningless group system.

TheHermit (Kerry) - Posts: 6354 - 07/07/2016 01:20:49    1877674

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Replying To Soma:  "Worth remembering that these were the results against the best side in Ulster in each of them years so imagine how the weaker sides would have fared! Maybe hurling would be a lot stronger in places like Derry and Armagh now if these were the annual hammerings their football teams were having to take. I've great respect for footballers in Limerick, Clare and Tipperary who have kept at it all these years."
I've already posted about 10 times that Kerry would have probably beat the pick of Ulster from about 1890-1970 apart from good Down and Cavan sides .

Donegal were nonexistent .

That's not our point : my view is that it's ridiculous having to play a number of division one teams every year to win a provincial as opposed to certain counties who stroll into the last 8. I repeat - it's NOT Kerry's fault - I won't say it again.

Look at our games in the lead up the Mayo game last year . Complete ridiculous .

Look at how we done in 2014 . We had an easy route to the Ulster and wow we managed to come within a whisker of winning Sam.

TheRightStuff (Donegal) - Posts: 1688 - 07/07/2016 01:27:56    1877675

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Replying To Soma:  "Worth remembering that these were the results against the best side in Ulster in each of them years so imagine how the weaker sides would have fared! Maybe hurling would be a lot stronger in places like Derry and Armagh now if these were the annual hammerings their football teams were having to take. I've great respect for footballers in Limerick, Clare and Tipperary who have kept at it all these years."
http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/darragh-%C3%B3-s%C3%A9-kerry-s-pessimism-about-dublin-is-surprising-1.2711426

Here have a read . In my opinion this was the greatest midfielder to ever play the game .

I quote him ' this is the advantage Kerry have over the Ulster teams '

We are not talking 1970s now mate .

TheRightStuff (Donegal) - Posts: 1688 - 07/07/2016 01:38:51    1877680

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P.S., as someone who has a history degree: a nine year old would be embarrassed by what you just posted there. Might I suggest you invest in a good authoritative work on Irish history and not rely on Wikipedia.

TheHermit (Kerry) - Posts:1489 - 06/07/2016 15:28:03

I never relied on Wiki or focused on single biased books, I have a keen interest in Irish history, specifically local history of Aileach and the various boundary changes between clans both before and after Aileach came into existence. I also studied National history from the 600's to the 1600's and have always questioned some of the details around Brian Boru's very short stint in dominance, which certain historians seem to exaggerate and overstate, and yet those debatable stories always find their way on to documentaries and books and are deemed to be canon.

Whether you accept it or not, the mighty Ui Neill clans ruled the majority of this Island until the mass arrival of the English in the 1600's. There were many periods of turbulence during this millennia, but ultimately they remained the general top dogs.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 07/07/2016 01:42:20    1877681

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Replying To TheHermit:  "Exactly, take away the provincial championship and you rip out the GAA's soul.

What is the GAA if it's not first and foremost a badge of community and identity, be it at parish or county level. What helps sustain that sense of community and dentity? Its the contests and rivalries with neighbouring clubs, townlands, counties that have been fostered for generations. The provincial championship is a huge part of that because your biggest rivals will always be the ones closest to you, us and Cork, Meath and Dublin, Derry and Tyrone etc.

I've no issue with changing things around so that once the provincial competitions are done, everyone is on an equal footing. But don't destroy something that's so integral to our games for some champions league group system simply because it gaurantees everyone 6 or 8 games.

I want to see Kerry and Cork down in Killareny playing for silverware, pride and the bragging rights, not watch Kerry play someone like Wexford in some dead rubber match in some meaningless group system."
Sure that's great for you Kerry boys. Easy games every year into the all Ireland quarter finals. Darragh O Se in his recent column goes on about how glad Kerry players are that they are not really tested until they are done with the Munster championship,albeit an occasional challenge from Cork. They feel more motivated at that time of year to fight for a starting place and push on to challenge for Sam. Plus rivalries are created on an on going basis,Armagh/Tyrone in noughties aswell as Tyrone/Kerry. Kerry/Dublin and Dublin/Meath etc etc. Playing other teams is not a bad idea if the format is done right. It has to be some variation of the provincials with 4 groups of 8 and let others figure it out from there. I'd be just as happy for Tyrone to bring home the Delaney cup after a massive game against Cork as I would be to see them bringing back the Anglo Celt cup after a huge battle against Armagh. Change is needed. Everybody knows it.

seanie_boy (Tyrone) - Posts: 4235 - 07/07/2016 04:46:24    1877689

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Ulster football was not labelled a hindrance in the early 90's or early 00's. The best teams always get through. Kerry had to fend off Armagh in extra time in a replay in 2000. Ulster has a competitive province. If the best team or teams in any given year come from other provinces that will be reflected in the final and eventual winner.

There has been one All Ulster All-Ireland final and two All Munster All-Ireland final. Each of the 3 finals a fair reflection of the standard of those teams in each of those years. We have not seen an All Leinster nor an All Connaught final as of yet.

Kerry have a good habit of navigating the qualifiers when they have to. Tyrone have done the same.

It's funny how a discussion on likely quarter-final pairings has raised this discussion. I find it laughable! ;-)

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7865 - 07/07/2016 08:03:43    1877696

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Until the ulster provincial system looks at this, it will remain the same. But players and teams here want ulster to remain this way. We could always invent 3 more counties and drop them into munster, or redraw the boundaries, or do the same in connaught. I dont think this thread is going to evolve anywhere fast other than circles.

Bottom line, win ulster and you are in with a shout of an all ireland. Great preparation for big games, provided you stay injury free.
Go in the back door and you are screwed.

The only way there will be a seeded grouping system (which I am against) is if sky and the GAA thought there would be more money in it. Which there wouldnt be. The novelty would wear thin. Some counties are utterly hopelessly supported and they keep their money for later in the year. Geography comes into travel too.

The best hope for the GAA and balancing the books, is to introduce a negative seeding system that is in situ in the AFL, whereby the winning teams get least the following year and the worst performing counties get the most from HQ. We have got to look at the sponsorship system too and see if there is a way to cap or to make it less professional, as it is such now.

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3830 - 07/07/2016 08:42:33    1877703

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Replying To TheRightStuff:  "I've already posted about 10 times that Kerry would have probably beat the pick of Ulster from about 1890-1970 apart from good Down and Cavan sides .

Donegal were nonexistent .

That's not our point : my view is that it's ridiculous having to play a number of division one teams every year to win a provincial as opposed to certain counties who stroll into the last 8. I repeat - it's NOT Kerry's fault - I won't say it again.

Look at our games in the lead up the Mayo game last year . Complete ridiculous .

Look at how we done in 2014 . We had an easy route to the Ulster and wow we managed to come within a whisker of winning Sam."
Donegal played 2 teams who were still division 1 monaghan and mayo losing them both tells it's own story. Indeed just because a team is in divison 1 does not mean that the are stronger then a lower division team look at down for example

ros1 (Roscommon) - Posts: 1211 - 07/07/2016 08:44:39    1877704

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Kerry supporters still for some reason unable to acknowledge the huge advantage they have - I'm shocked!

I suppose I'd be worried too if I was one of them.

greatpoint (USA) - Posts: 427 - 07/07/2016 09:46:38    1877724

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People were questioning and tarnishing the greatness of the Kerry side of the 70's and 80's so I had set the record straight and not let anyone diminish them. (I left out Kerry 0-23 Derry 0-10 in 1970 by the way, my bad)

For the record Munster has won 50 All Irelands to Ulsters 17. Not bad for a hurling province. Since we won our first AI in 1903 we have always been near the to apart from a few lean spells such as the 90's and now sadly.

You can criticise the current team all you like but admonishing our great teams will not be accepted.

KYTitletown (Kerry) - Posts: 816 - 07/07/2016 10:47:10    1877748

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Replying To greatpoint:  "Kerry supporters still for some reason unable to acknowledge the huge advantage they have - I'm shocked!

I suppose I'd be worried too if I was one of them."
http://hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=257773

Well Ulster people like the great Mickey Harte doesn't want change why are you blaming us

KYTitletown (Kerry) - Posts: 816 - 07/07/2016 10:55:34    1877756

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Replying To greatpoint:  "Kerry supporters still for some reason unable to acknowledge the huge advantage they have - I'm shocked!

I suppose I'd be worried too if I was one of them."
Mickey Harte the greatest manager in Ulster has just said he prefers the system as it stands.

As for being worried... Honestly there is a whole lot more in this world to be actually worried about.

I find that when Kerry are discussed on here inevitably it's hard to suppress the jealousy of some on here of the history of Kerry football.

westkerry (Kerry) - Posts: 1250 - 07/07/2016 11:15:53    1877771

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I have always thought one simple solution is to seed the qualifiers based on league placing.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7865 - 07/07/2016 11:24:46    1877775

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Replying To westkerry:  "Mickey Harte the greatest manager in Ulster has just said he prefers the system as it stands.

As for being worried... Honestly there is a whole lot more in this world to be actually worried about.

I find that when Kerry are discussed on here inevitably it's hard to suppress the jealousy of some on here of the history of Kerry football."
If it's not worry then what is causing Kerry posters here to jump down the throat of anyone that suggests (something that is readily accepted by ex-Kerry players and managers alike) that there may be an inherent imbalance in the current setup? Clearly a very sensitive topic among Kerry supporters, otherwise I don't think you'd see such denial of something so patently obvious. I suppose they may enjoy it while it lasts; there aren't too many years of playing Waterford to get into a provincial final left.

greatpoint (USA) - Posts: 427 - 07/07/2016 11:40:51    1877791

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Replying To greatpoint:  "If it's not worry then what is causing Kerry posters here to jump down the throat of anyone that suggests (something that is readily accepted by ex-Kerry players and managers alike) that there may be an inherent imbalance in the current setup? Clearly a very sensitive topic among Kerry supporters, otherwise I don't think you'd see such denial of something so patently obvious. I suppose they may enjoy it while it lasts; there aren't too many years of playing Waterford to get into a provincial final left."
Then how come Galway and Antrim didn't rake in Hurling All Irelands when they got direct entry to the Semi Finals? Explain that one if it so easy to do

Munster has the most All Irelands in every grade at both codes (Senior, Minor U21, Junior, Intermediate) some by huge margins over the others yet we have it easy.....

KYTitletown (Kerry) - Posts: 816 - 07/07/2016 11:56:37    1877808

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