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Replying To PoolSturgeon: "Oh maybe I am mistaken so Offside. I don't know the NI players but all of them except the goalkeeper seemed to be singing. Just assumed there would be at least 3 or 4 from a nationalist background in the starting line up. Very happy if I am wrong!" Didn't see ANY Northern Catholic singing GSTQ. Maybe you should stop reading the Indo and watching RTE for your information on the North.
Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9706 - 25/06/2016 20:01:22
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No worries Pool - McGovern the only one in the lineup. Well, not sure what religion the English guys playing are but regardless being English born wouldn't think it strange even if they are Catholic as it is their de facto anthem I suppose.
Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 25/06/2016 21:38:40
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Replying To Ulsterman: "Didn't see ANY Northern Catholic singing GSTQ. Maybe you should stop reading the Indo and watching RTE for your information on the North." No need to be so narky Ulsterman. I looked at it again and noticed that 9 of the 11 players sang GSTQ. If as Offside says, none of those 9 come from a nationalist background I'm delighted to hear it.
PoolSturgeon (Galway) - Posts: 1905 - 25/06/2016 23:47:51
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That all sounds good in theory but I think the north gets 10 billion pounds a year from Westminster alot of money. Tthere is far more people employments in the public service in the north then either the republic or in britian then you would have the massive security costs when the uvf etc start off there old tricks the would not take this lightly. Trying to tell the unions to stop causing problems is easier said then done and will probably not happen.
ROS1 (Roscommon) - Posts:485 - 25/06/2016 18:36:28
£10 Billion isn't a lot, considering the North has almost 2 million people living in it. And again, I suspect the North contributes as much if not more to the British exchequer, otherwise they would be trying to shed it for years now.
I'll leave the reasons for not having a United Ireland to the Unionist folk
GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 26/06/2016 00:14:37
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Replying To GaryMc82: "That all sounds good in theory but I think the north gets 10 billion pounds a year from Westminster alot of money. Tthere is far more people employments in the public service in the north then either the republic or in britian then you would have the massive security costs when the uvf etc start off there old tricks the would not take this lightly. Trying to tell the unions to stop causing problems is easier said then done and will probably not happen.
ROS1 (Roscommon) - Posts:485 - 25/06/2016 18:36:28
£10 Billion isn't a lot, considering the North has almost 2 million people living in it. And again, I suspect the North contributes as much if not more to the British exchequer, otherwise they would be trying to shed it for years now.
I'll leave the reasons for not having a United Ireland to the Unionist folk" Maybe do Gary I think the only way a border poll would win is by making a strong economic argument to both middle class Catholics and protestants, brexit will probably help that. A lot of concessions will have to be made by northern nationalists and people in the republic to the unionists for this to win.
ros1 (Roscommon) - Posts: 1211 - 26/06/2016 09:55:09
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Maybe do Gary I think the only way a border poll would win is by making a strong economic argument to both middle class Catholics and protestants, brexit will probably help that. A lot of concessions will have to be made by northern nationalists and people in the republic to the unionists for this to win.
ROS1 (Roscommon) - Posts:486 - 26/06/2016 09:55:09
A border poll now would bring home just how big of a shift has taken place, and Unionist politicians are keen to avoid this at all costs, as it would be in contrast to their message that their place in the Union is safe. The border poll might fail, but would highlight the rate of growth of the Nationalist population, which has already overtaken the Unionists for those under the age of 35, and it is 50-50 for those aged 35-45 and show a Nationalist majority is near fruition and legitimise the question being asked again in the another few years,
I don't know about concessions, I just think an All Inclusive secular Ireland would need to be created. We would not be seeking to force Unionist people out or isolate them, quite the opposite actually, we would be seeking to include them in every element of the Country and integrate their heritage.
GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 26/06/2016 17:00:22
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Replying To GaryMc82: "Maybe do Gary I think the only way a border poll would win is by making a strong economic argument to both middle class Catholics and protestants, brexit will probably help that. A lot of concessions will have to be made by northern nationalists and people in the republic to the unionists for this to win.
ROS1 (Roscommon) - Posts:486 - 26/06/2016 09:55:09
A border poll now would bring home just how big of a shift has taken place, and Unionist politicians are keen to avoid this at all costs, as it would be in contrast to their message that their place in the Union is safe. The border poll might fail, but would highlight the rate of growth of the Nationalist population, which has already overtaken the Unionists for those under the age of 35, and it is 50-50 for those aged 35-45 and show a Nationalist majority is near fruition and legitimise the question being asked again in the another few years,
I don't know about concessions, I just think an All Inclusive secular Ireland would need to be created. We would not be seeking to force Unionist people out or isolate them, quite the opposite actually, we would be seeking to include them in every element of the Country and integrate their heritage." I think the timing of a poll will be vital if it is rushed in and lost after a bitter campaign it could be a generation untill another vote. A new centralist national party is needed in the north to lead a independence movement something like the snp in Scotland, that will show there will be a strong future for everyone in a United Ireland, the would also need a strong economic plan.
ros1 (Roscommon) - Posts: 1211 - 26/06/2016 18:25:43
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I think the timing of a poll will be vital if it is rushed in and lost after a bitter campaign it could be a generation untill another vote. A new centralist national party is needed in the north to lead a independence movement something like the snp in Scotland, that will show there will be a strong future for everyone in a United Ireland, the would also need a strong economic plan.
ROS1 (Roscommon) - Posts:487 - 26/06/2016 18:25:43 1
Perhaps deferring the timing of the Poll would make sense, as ultimately we should see a Nationalist majority in the North within 15 years from now. And I feel we need to use the learning's from the Scottish referendum and work to ensure those same fears are addressed.
The Scottish Independence referendum was swung at the last minute by scare mongering by the English MP's and Scottish Conservatives, which until that moment looked like Scottish Independence was going ahead. The SNP clearly failed to understand how ruthless and cute the English can be, and should have been prepared for this last minute fear tactic. I believe the SNP won't make that same economic mistake again, however if they do get another referendum, the English scare tactics would probably focus on Immigration and stuff like that.
I believe a factual economic case needs to built over the next few years, working with the Irish Government and opposition, EU and the Nationalist parties in the North. When the final case is then presented, It will fully detail plans for integration of Health services, Education, public sectors, councils, infrastructures etc, including a workable time-frame for transition. Such planning involving the EU minus UK influence, would likely see strong support, which would lead to massive funding to ensure the project succeeds.
Time is on our side, and soon the number will be too. And the goodwill a United Ireland would draw in terms of US and EU investment, would likely see the economy grow massively and National debt paid off more swiftly. The people of this island could be substantially better off as a result.
GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 26/06/2016 20:11:33
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Replying To Dessie_Cross: "I might need a passport to draw me round bales home from Hackballscross. Have a hape of meadows rented there." duke down by liscalgot or larkins road
Tom1916 (Armagh) - Posts: 2001 - 26/06/2016 20:35:29
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Replying To ROS1: "There would be a massive bill for the republic, the brits would gladly get rid of the north as the have to pay a fortune every year to the north. Would the people of the north like to have to pay 50 euro to see there doctor these are the questions you would have to ask." I would pay any money ROS1 to live in freedom in my own country.
Tom1916 (Armagh) - Posts: 2001 - 26/06/2016 20:43:51
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Replying To Offside_Rule: "Which Norn Iron Catholic you talking about Pool Sturgeon out of interest as I watched the anthems." Niall MCGinn, Pat McCourt both sang it, one of them is part owner of a restaurant on the falls road and it was festooned with GAA and Ireland flags yet the owner pledges allegiance to britain, bizarre!!
Tom1916 (Armagh) - Posts: 2001 - 26/06/2016 20:45:59
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Replying To PoolSturgeon: "Oh maybe I am mistaken so Offside. I don't know the NI players but all of them except the goalkeeper seemed to be singing. Just assumed there would be at least 3 or 4 from a nationalist background in the starting line up. Very happy if I am wrong!" You are correct PoolSurgeon
Tom1916 (Armagh) - Posts: 2001 - 26/06/2016 20:46:35
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PoolSturgeon - the goalkeeper is from Gotsmilks county (with mother from Cavan). The North is subsided by about 7billion by the Brits if my figures are correct. The health services both here and in the UK are the most inefficient in Europe and I think our health service has second highest spending with exceptional poor administration being the achilles heel (just like Europe. From my research their was only a 48% turnout in west Belfast a very strong nationalist area with the highest turnout being in Fermanagh/South Tyrone- now what that tell one I do not know. The working class areas in the UK voted to exit. I would obviously like to see the country united but when is the problem. Now to say they were all singing except one may be correct but some may have been singing our anthem!
browncows (Meath) - Posts: 2342 - 26/06/2016 20:54:12
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Replying To GaryMc82: "I think the timing of a poll will be vital if it is rushed in and lost after a bitter campaign it could be a generation untill another vote. A new centralist national party is needed in the north to lead a independence movement something like the snp in Scotland, that will show there will be a strong future for everyone in a United Ireland, the would also need a strong economic plan.
ROS1 (Roscommon) - Posts:487 - 26/06/2016 18:25:43 1
Perhaps deferring the timing of the Poll would make sense, as ultimately we should see a Nationalist majority in the North within 15 years from now. And I feel we need to use the learning's from the Scottish referendum and work to ensure those same fears are addressed.
The Scottish Independence referendum was swung at the last minute by scare mongering by the English MP's and Scottish Conservatives, which until that moment looked like Scottish Independence was going ahead. The SNP clearly failed to understand how ruthless and cute the English can be, and should have been prepared for this last minute fear tactic. I believe the SNP won't make that same economic mistake again, however if they do get another referendum, the English scare tactics would probably focus on Immigration and stuff like that.
I believe a factual economic case needs to built over the next few years, working with the Irish Government and opposition, EU and the Nationalist parties in the North. When the final case is then presented, It will fully detail plans for integration of Health services, Education, public sectors, councils, infrastructures etc, including a workable time-frame for transition. Such planning involving the EU minus UK influence, would likely see strong support, which would lead to massive funding to ensure the project succeeds.
Time is on our side, and soon the number will be too. And the goodwill a United Ireland would draw in terms of US and EU investment, would likely see the economy grow massively and National debt paid off more swiftly. The people of this island could be substantially better off as a result." I hope so. Ya I think what really want against the snp the weren't able to make a clear case what would happen economically and the likes of the conservatives and Labour were able to captilise on that. The dup will do the same. The funny thing with the oil prices been so poor the chances of Scot independence looked along way away, now thanks to brexit it looks likely due to the brexits campai
ros1 (Roscommon) - Posts: 1211 - 26/06/2016 22:53:00
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