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Bryan Sheehan. The greatest free taker of all time?

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Replying To KerryKillers:  "Yeh, from 13 meters he is, his little bro is a far better footballer! Cillian is the better of the two at frees obviously!"
Frees are what we're talking about, aren't we?

ZeitChrist (UK) - Posts: 154 - 17/06/2016 18:18:01    1868281

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Replying To ZeitChrist:  "Frees are what we're talking about, aren't we?"
Yep, sorry if I waffled on a bit!

KerryKillers (Dublin) - Posts: 711 - 17/06/2016 19:06:23    1868299

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Replying To Lockjaw:  "Think it was the 97 final when Maurice had given an exhibtion of free taking with his right foot. In the second half Kerry got a free on his "wrong" side, from a tight enough angle near the sideline. Maurice saunters over, puts the ball down and casually curls it over with his left foot. Job done."
He kicked it off the outside of his right boot.

ponga (Mayo) - Posts: 649 - 17/06/2016 20:11:44    1868318

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Replying To ponga:  "He kicked it off the outside of his right boot."
It was in the 1st half when he kicked a free off the ground from the sideline between the 14 & 21 off his left foot, just an incredible talent. We can forgive lockjaw that he had forgotten the precise details - it is a sobering thought for us all that most of the winning Mayo U21 team this year were still in nappies for that game, some of the squad possibly weren't even born!

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 17/06/2016 21:03:49    1868333

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There were times not so long ago that teams were reliant of a top free taker and they would account for the majority of scores, usually in a time when the score lines were evidently lower than they are now.
But the spread of scorers is wider now, especially with Dublin and Kerry!
Not saying that they don't put over vital scores these days, look at Cluxton, but the demand for them is not quite as high as it was in my humble opinion.

KerryKillers (Dublin) - Posts: 711 - 17/06/2016 21:46:46    1868348

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Replying To KerryKillers:  "There were times not so long ago that teams were reliant of a top free taker and they would account for the majority of scores, usually in a time when the score lines were evidently lower than they are now.
But the spread of scorers is wider now, especially with Dublin and Kerry!
Not saying that they don't put over vital scores these days, look at Cluxton, but the demand for them is not quite as high as it was in my humble opinion."
In addition to what I was saying above about Cillian O'Connor being the best free taker in the country, the Irish Times have an article up that outlines just how vital he is to Mayo and how overly reliant they are on him, with 62% of his return coming from placed balls. You're quite right that Kerry and Dublin don't rely on any one individual to a great extent and have a wider spread of scorers, but the statistics show that Mayo need O'Connor or their attack is severely blunted. The Irish Times referred to him as "the most relied upon forward in the game", even moreso than Conor McManus for Monaghan.

Dontfoul had a graph up last year that illustrates just how accurate he is with the placed ball. Between 2012 and 2014, he attempted more shots than any other player and was more accurate than any other player, and had an 86% success rate between the 20m and 40m line. They just published more statistics that show he has taken 76% of all of Mayo's dead ball attempts, can switch between left and right, and takes the majority of their 45s and penalties, all of this often in high-pressure matches. In the last four championships he has had 112 shots and scored 90. That's an 80% success rate.

It's true that Dublin and Kerry may not have one person that they really rely on for frees, but Cillian O'Connor is absolutely crucial to Mayo as a free-taker. They don't have anyone else with his proven accuracy or consistency. In fact, no other team in the country has a free-taker as consistent as him, according to the stats. Mayo really need someone to step up to the plate and share scoring responsibilities with O'Connor if they're going to get to where they want to be.

ZeitChrist (UK) - Posts: 154 - 17/06/2016 22:20:42    1868356

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Off the ground: Stafford
Out of hands: Canavan or Gooch

Anyone have statistics on which is more accurate?

Does distance impact on this stat?

meath67 (Meath) - Posts: 71 - 17/06/2016 22:33:22    1868362

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Replying To ZeitChrist:  "In addition to what I was saying above about Cillian O'Connor being the best free taker in the country, the Irish Times have an article up that outlines just how vital he is to Mayo and how overly reliant they are on him, with 62% of his return coming from placed balls. You're quite right that Kerry and Dublin don't rely on any one individual to a great extent and have a wider spread of scorers, but the statistics show that Mayo need O'Connor or their attack is severely blunted. The Irish Times referred to him as "the most relied upon forward in the game", even moreso than Conor McManus for Monaghan.

Dontfoul had a graph up last year that illustrates just how accurate he is with the placed ball. Between 2012 and 2014, he attempted more shots than any other player and was more accurate than any other player, and had an 86% success rate between the 20m and 40m line. They just published more statistics that show he has taken 76% of all of Mayo's dead ball attempts, can switch between left and right, and takes the majority of their 45s and penalties, all of this often in high-pressure matches. In the last four championships he has had 112 shots and scored 90. That's an 80% success rate.

It's true that Dublin and Kerry may not have one person that they really rely on for frees, but Cillian O'Connor is absolutely crucial to Mayo as a free-taker. They don't have anyone else with his proven accuracy or consistency. In fact, no other team in the country has a free-taker as consistent as him, according to the stats. Mayo really need someone to step up to the plate and share scoring responsibilities with O'Connor if they're going to get to where they want to be."
I agree with all that.

KerryKillers (Dublin) - Posts: 711 - 18/06/2016 12:02:54    1868441

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No

IrishGael3 (USA) - Posts: 1092 - 18/06/2016 21:25:11    1868600

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There were a lot of excellent dead ball merchants over the years, I don't think there is one that stands well above the others.
A lot of them mentioned above.

realdub (Dublin) - Posts: 8592 - 18/06/2016 21:30:53    1868605

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Connor Mc manus is the best freetaker in the country at the minute. Bryan sheehan was excellent too but for me the one that stood out in the last 20 years was Peter canavan.

border Gael (Monaghan) - Posts: 894 - 18/06/2016 21:58:39    1868626

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Long range : Tohill

DoireCityFC (Derry) - Posts: 1580 - 19/06/2016 18:17:38    1869001

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Dublin wouldn't be as reliant on a free taker as some other teams, but in fairness to Dean Rock, I'd say his stats are as good as O'Connor/Sheehan etc.

realdub (Dublin) - Posts: 8592 - 19/06/2016 21:05:29    1869149

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Replying To realdub:  "Dublin wouldn't be as reliant on a free taker as some other teams, but in fairness to Dean Rock, I'd say his stats are as good as O'Connor/Sheehan etc."
According to the dontfoul stats, Rock has a good conversion rate (actually higher than Sheehan), but he's not as reliable or as consistent as O'Connor in high-pressure situations. O'Connor has also had far more dead ball attempts and scores than Rock. This can probably be chalked down to the fact that Dublin haven't really sought to cultivate one single player into a dead ball specialist in the way that Mayo have done with O'Connor. As mentioned above, Dublin have a wider spread of scorers and dead ball attempts have been shared around more over the years than in Mayo. Stephen Cluxton tends to handle anything long-range and Bernard Brogan was on free-taking duty for a while, though his dead ball stats indicate that it was probably wise to give the responsibility to someone else.

ZeitChrist (UK) - Posts: 154 - 19/06/2016 23:18:27    1869235

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Replying To ZeitChrist:  "According to the dontfoul stats, Rock has a good conversion rate (actually higher than Sheehan), but he's not as reliable or as consistent as O'Connor in high-pressure situations. O'Connor has also had far more dead ball attempts and scores than Rock. This can probably be chalked down to the fact that Dublin haven't really sought to cultivate one single player into a dead ball specialist in the way that Mayo have done with O'Connor. As mentioned above, Dublin have a wider spread of scorers and dead ball attempts have been shared around more over the years than in Mayo. Stephen Cluxton tends to handle anything long-range and Bernard Brogan was on free-taking duty for a while, though his dead ball stats indicate that it was probably wise to give the responsibility to someone else."
Thats good data, cheers.

realdub (Dublin) - Posts: 8592 - 19/06/2016 23:27:44    1869241

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I thought bryan give a exhibition of free taking today. Top class

CurranCake1 (Roscommon) - Posts: 130 - 04/07/2016 00:26:57    1875775

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McConville, Tohill and Canavan were all great free takers as good as if not better than Sheehan.

geoff (Tyrone) - Posts: 377 - 04/07/2016 08:30:50    1875802

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I am a huge Sheehan fan.

I think he has to be up there. It would be an interesting thing to see stats on his score to game rates. I also think it would be a good thing to narrow the terms of reference. Championship matches only, the level of opposition, league and championship, club games etc. Also, pressure kicks. You could bang over points all day when your team is 6 or 7 up. But this is true for all other teams and players and I would be really interested in seeing the results.

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3830 - 04/07/2016 13:57:56    1876068

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A few people talking about stats, but I don't think that's fair on Sheehan. Remember, he takes on anything within 60 yards of the posts!

Michael Murphy does likewise (although his kicking in the 1st game v Monaghan probably rules him out of this argument).

Cillian O'Connor and Dean Rock look like the 2 best at the minute outside of Sheehan.


A good free taker is so so important and I think it'll be Tyrone's eventual downfall in this year's championship, possibly Donegal's too.

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5012 - 04/07/2016 15:26:31    1876146

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Replying To geoff:  "McConville, Tohill and Canavan were all great free takers as good as if not better than Sheehan."
They were great free takers, but not same class as Sheehan
But none of them could kick a free from 55 yards

Murphy, Sheehan, the best at the minute.

They edge out rock, c o'c, mc manus on distance ability.

I think it's important you consider a free takers fatigue as well while taking a kick. After 60 minutes in midfield and stepping up to take a pressure kick compared to inside forward or goal keeper taking the same kick is different.

Frederick (Louth) - Posts: 479 - 04/07/2016 16:04:11    1876177

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