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Scrap the black card now

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Replying To Dellboypolecat: "Donal ??????" Smyth Torcaill (Australia) - Posts: 204 - 16/06/2016 22:13:17 1867945 Link
Replying To Torcaill: "Smyth" Am lost now what you on about Dellboypolecat (Tyrone) - Posts: 15069 - 16/06/2016 23:23:02 1867975 Link
a lot of comments on the poor referee on this post refs have a to decide during a game players dont make it easy on refs between diving and feigning injury. i have called frees against a forward for pulling the defender into him and nearly got shot for it. everyone one has a different view on fouls be it on the sideline or in the the stand, but refereeing is a thankless job how many on here actually referee? the game has got better since the black card and there are games that cannot be refereed be it a derby or bad blood between teams and that is where you need to use common sense but unfortunately we as referees cant use common sense mrsme (USA) - Posts: 172 - 17/06/2016 19:30:22 1868308 Link
Am I wrong to think that the black card was introduced to punish the defending team that try to stop the opposition from either starting a counter attack or shooting for a score on getting a pass off etc. by pulling or dragging a player to the ground or blocking a player going for a return pass? Although I have never agreed with the black card since introduction I can see the logic of it in what I have mentioned above. What I can't understand is how an offensive foul can be catergorised as a black card offence. When watching the sunday game last night it was pointed out that Kieran Gillespie obstructed the Monaghan defender which gave MacNiallis the space to score the goal. As they said, obviously if this had been noticed by the offcials the goal wouldn't of stood and it would of been a free out. They also went onto say it should of been a black card against Gillespie. This is where I have a problem, yes, by the letter of the law a deliberate block results in a black card but when the black card was being introduced that particular type of example was never given as the black card was trying to target deliberate defensive fouls. I'll give another scenario and would be interested on lads opinions, as a former corner back myself I've often been blocked (body checked) off by the opposite corner forward when the corner forwards switch their runs. Now it's not always easy for a referee to see this but if the umpire sees it and informs the referee would that justify a black card? by the letter of the law it would but surely it's just a bit of smart play(as was Gillespie's). I just think the black card should be limited to defensive fouls. Even McElhinney's black card should of been a second yellow IMO Mobot (Donegal) - Posts: 459 - 27/06/2016 17:43:24 1872943 Link
Replying To Mobot: "Am I wrong to think that the black card was introduced to punish the defending team that try to stop the opposition from either starting a counter attack or shooting for a score on getting a pass off etc. by pulling or dragging a player to the ground or blocking a player going for a return pass? Although I have never agreed with the black card since introduction I can see the logic of it in what I have mentioned above. What I can't understand is how an offensive foul can be catergorised as a black card offence. When watching the sunday game last night it was pointed out that Kieran Gillespie obstructed the Monaghan defender which gave MacNiallis the space to score the goal. As they said, obviously if this had been noticed by the offcials the goal wouldn't of stood and it would of been a free out. They also went onto say it should of been a black card against Gillespie. This is where I have a problem, yes, by the letter of the law a deliberate block results in a black card but when the black card was being introduced that particular type of example was never given as the black card was trying to target deliberate defensive fouls. I'll give another scenario and would be interested on lads opinions, as a former corner back myself I've often been blocked (body checked) off by the opposite corner forward when the corner forwards switch their runs. Now it's not always easy for a referee to see this but if the umpire sees it and informs the referee would that justify a black card? by the letter of the law it would but surely it's just a bit of smart play(as was Gillespie's). I just think the black card should be limited to defensive fouls. Even McElhinney's black card should of been a second yellow IMO" The black card rule has no reference to offensive/defensive play just to cynical fouling no matter who has the ball. In relation to the "third man tackle" or to "Deliberately body collide with an opponent after he has played the ball away or for the purpose of taking him out of a movement of play." this is a black card and it is the duty of any official on the pitch to bring this to the attention of the referee. The penalty is a black card. That is the rules as they currently stand, Umpires have the power to point this foul out to a referee. arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4898 - 27/06/2016 18:32:01 1872975 Link
The black card was the result of my own fellow county people crying for weeks about Sean Cavanagh pulling down Our brilliant forward Conor mc Manus. I am sure Conor would have been the last person to want all the whinging that went on about it as he's a very positive person. However the results of the crying was the black card that is a disaster for referees and players. Let's get it scrapped. border Gael (Monaghan) - Posts: 894 - 27/06/2016 22:35:38 1873068 Link
The criticism of Sean Kavanagh was a disgrace and totally hipocritical. It still is. And the black card was never going to solve any problem. If needs be (when everything else has failed) anybody will pull down somebody going through and a black card won't stop that. Apart from all that it only complicates the work of referees who already have almost impossible jobs to interpret rules and give split second decisions. The result is we never know now when the card is going to be black or yellow or even red. It has become a joke. michael (Cork) - Posts: 381 - 28/06/2016 09:22:35 1873126 Link
The criticism of Sean Kavanagh was poor. It still is. And the black card was never going to solve any problem. If needs be (when everything else has failed) anybody will pull down somebody going through and a black card won't stop that. Apart from all that it only complicates the work of referees who already have almost impossible jobs to interpret rules and give split second decisions. The result is we never know now when the card is going to be black or yellow or even red. It has become a joke. michael (Cork) - Posts: 381 - 28/06/2016 09:23:54 1873127 Link
Replying To arock: "The black card rule has no reference to offensive/defensive play just to cynical fouling no matter who has the ball. In relation to the "third man tackle" or to "Deliberately body collide with an opponent after he has played the ball away or for the purpose of taking him out of a movement of play." this is a black card and it is the duty of any official on the pitch to bring this to the attention of the referee. The penalty is a black card. That is the rules as they currently stand, Umpires have the power to point this foul out to a referee." As you say it doesn't reference defensive/offensive play but I'm pretty sure when the powers that be decided to introduce (after the Cavanagh incident) the black card the sole purpose of it was to punish the team defending. Remember the examples sent around the country to all the clubs to show what would merit a black card? All the pictures showed deliberate defensive fouls. I don't recall any mention or examples of attacking scenarios that could lead to a black card. I don't believe that they ever attended to punish the attacking player but because it wasn't specified to begin with the letter of the law has to be applied which I find ridiculous - whatever happened to a bit of cuteness/slyness in football? I'd love to have seen the first meeting with the referee association when the black card was being introduced - as people have already said it's a hard enough job without adding to it. Fouling has always been a part of the game and this includes deliberate fouling and I don't think the black card will or has made any huge difference to this but if we start seeing full forwards black carded for blocking a corner backs run even though his team has possession of the ball then I don't know. If he gets caught it should be a free out - no more Mobot (Donegal) - Posts: 459 - 28/06/2016 10:40:40 1873171 Link
Replying To border Gael: "The black card was the result of my own fellow county people crying for weeks about Sean Cavanagh pulling down Our brilliant forward Conor mc Manus. I am sure Conor would have been the last person to want all the whinging that went on about it as he's a very positive person. However the results of the crying was the black card that is a disaster for referees and players. Let's get it scrapped." There are a lot of things said about the black card that are incorrect on here but this is always the one that is most clearly wrong. The black card was voted in at congress in March 2013 to be in place for the 2014 season. Sean Cavanaghs infamous 'tackle' happened in August 2013 - the black card had already been voted in, whether that tackle happened or not had no bearing on its introduction yet now history is being rewritten. Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 28/06/2016 11:32:21 1873196 Link
Replying To Mobot: "As you say it doesn't reference defensive/offensive play but I'm pretty sure when the powers that be decided to introduce (after the Cavanagh incident) the black card the sole purpose of it was to punish the team defending. Remember the examples sent around the country to all the clubs to show what would merit a black card? All the pictures showed deliberate defensive fouls. I don't recall any mention or examples of attacking scenarios that could lead to a black card. I don't believe that they ever attended to punish the attacking player but because it wasn't specified to begin with the letter of the law has to be applied which I find ridiculous - whatever happened to a bit of cuteness/slyness in football? I'd love to have seen the first meeting with the referee association when the black card was being introduced - as people have already said it's a hard enough job without adding to it. Fouling has always been a part of the game and this includes deliberate fouling and I don't think the black card will or has made any huge difference to this but if we start seeing full forwards black carded for blocking a corner backs run even though his team has possession of the ball then I don't know. If he gets caught it should be a free out - no more" Have a look at the 2nd incident here in the video explaining the black card, after it was voted in but before the first game where it was used. Now you might think that the cuteness/slyness of the Down man in that incident is a loss to the game but I don't think many would agree with you. The type of nonsense in this video is largely gone from the game now - it used to be commonplace causing players to become frustrated and leading to ill-tempered games. There is no doubt the black card has helped solve this and even for that alone it would be worth its place. link Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 28/06/2016 11:44:55 1873200 Link
Keep the black card. Award a 13 metres free in front of goal for all black card infractions, problem solved. suckvalleypaddy (Galway) - Posts: 1675 - 28/06/2016 12:02:32 1873210 Link
1) Establish exactly what a "Professional Foul" is. 2) Have a Basketball like rule where 3 Professional Fouls in a half results in the third and all proceeding fouls in a 14m free. At the half reset the foul count. Simples.. TheFullBack (Galway) - Posts: 110 - 28/06/2016 13:21:44 1873263 Link
Replying To Soma: "Have a look at the 2nd incident here in the video explaining the black card, after it was voted in but before the first game where it was used. Now you might think that the cuteness/slyness of the Down man in that incident is a loss to the game but I don't think many would agree with you. The type of nonsense in this video is largely gone from the game now - it used to be commonplace causing players to become frustrated and leading to ill-tempered games. There is no doubt the black card has helped solve this and even for that alone it would be worth its place. link" Thanks for the link, I actually never seen this video before and going by the number of views it has I'm guessing that not many have. I wouldn't catergorise what the Down player does as sly/cute, in fact, it's the complete opposite. He could not have made the foul more obvious even if he tried. Although not exactly the same it is was quite similar to what Martin McElhinney done to Wylie at the weekend. My point is that these challenges depending on how dangerous they are should either be a yellow or red card. I think the Down player and McElhinney should both of received yellow cards for their challenges and for example if young Gillespie's sly/clever foul on Fintan Kelly in the build up to Donegal's goal was spotted by the officials it should of just been a free out and no more as there was no malice in his challenge compared to the other 2 mentioned. I just don't see the logic of dishing out black cards to a player whos team are in possession of the ball for a nothing challenge. And as I said depending on the type of challenge it should be a yellow card, red card or just free against the offender. Mobot (Donegal) - Posts: 459 - 28/06/2016 14:28:20 1873309 Link
Replying To Soma: "Have a look at the 2nd incident here in the video explaining the black card, after it was voted in but before the first game where it was used. Now you might think that the cuteness/slyness of the Down man in that incident is a loss to the game but I don't think many would agree with you. The type of nonsense in this video is largely gone from the game now - it used to be commonplace causing players to become frustrated and leading to ill-tempered games. There is no doubt the black card has helped solve this and even for that alone it would be worth its place. link" Thanks for the link, I actually never seen this video before and going by the number of views it has I'm guessing that not many have. I wouldn't catergorise what the Down player does as sly/cute, in fact, it's the complete opposite. He could not have made the foul more obvious even if he tried. Although not exactly the same it is was quite similar to what Martin McElhinney done to Wylie at the weekend. My point is that these challenges depending on how dangerous they are should either be a yellow or red card. I think the Down player and McElhinney should both of received yellow cards for their challenges and for example if young Gillespie's sly/clever foul on Fintan Kelly in the build up to Donegal's goal was spotted by the officials it should of just been a free out and no more as there was no malice in his challenge compared to the other 2 mentioned. I just don't see the logic of dishing out black cards to a player whos team are in possession of the ball for a nothing challenge. And as I said depending on the type of challenge it should be a yellow card, red card or just free against the offender. Just my opinion though. Mobot (Donegal) - Posts: 459 - 28/06/2016 14:29:05 1873310 Link
Replying To Mobot: " Replying To Soma: "Have a look at the 2nd incident here in the video explaining the black card, after it was voted in but before the first game where it was used. Now you might think that the cuteness/slyness of the Down man in that incident is a loss to the game but I don't think many would agree with you. The type of nonsense in this video is largely gone from the game now - it used to be commonplace causing players to become frustrated and leading to ill-tempered games. There is no doubt the black card has helped solve this and even for that alone it would be worth its place. link" Thanks for the link, I actually never seen this video before and going by the number of views it has I'm guessing that not many have. I wouldn't catergorise what the Down player does as sly/cute, in fact, it's the complete opposite. He could not have made the foul more obvious even if he tried. Although not exactly the same it is was quite similar to what Martin McElhinney done to Wylie at the weekend. My point is that these challenges depending on how dangerous they are should either be a yellow or red card. I think the Down player and McElhinney should both of received yellow cards for their challenges and for example if young Gillespie's sly/clever foul on Fintan Kelly in the build up to Donegal's goal was spotted by the officials it should of just been a free out and no more as there was no malice in his challenge compared to the other 2 mentioned. I just don't see the logic of dishing out black cards to a player whos team are in possession of the ball for a nothing challenge. And as I said depending on the type of challenge it should be a yellow card, red card or just free against the offender. Just my opinion though." Once again over the weekend talking point was black card more so in Ulster .not consistent so please gaa get rid Dellboypolecat (Tyrone) - Posts: 15069 - 29/06/2016 12:47:47 1873768 Link
Dellboy I think most people believe the black card decisions in ulster were correct. There was also the incident in Croke Park where a Meath man should have been red carded, should we get rid of red cards now because referees are not consistent? And a few examples of over carrying, again maybe get rid of that rule to make the referees life easier? As someone who still plays the game I am more than happy to keep the black card as it generally protects the more skillful players. Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 29/06/2016 14:03:21 1873821 Link
Replying To Soma: "Dellboy I think most people believe the black card decisions in ulster were correct. There was also the incident in Croke Park where a Meath man should have been red carded, should we get rid of red cards now because referees are not consistent? And a few examples of over carrying, again maybe get rid of that rule to make the referees life easier? As someone who still plays the game I am more than happy to keep the black card as it generally protects the more skillful players." Why in Gods name then are guys like Tomas O Se totally against it ? And Tomas is from the purest of them all - the wonderful kingdom . Like players are still dragging guys down . Soma did you see the Kildare / Wexford match and the pulling down at the end of that ? What benefit was it to Wexford when Kildare were rugby tackling at the end ? It wastes time ( that wasn't added on in this case ) and Kildare gained , not Wexford. TheRightStuff (Donegal) - Posts: 1688 - 29/06/2016 18:32:06 1873961 Link
The black card is a farce of epic proportions to be honest, have said it from day one. The biggest problem is the very basis of the reason for the punishment and the punishment itself. I seen a clip of the reasoning behind the punishment from pat mc enaney. What they were looking to do was have a punishment that punished the player rather than a team so their solution was as a punishment for a cynical foul, you can bring on a substitute!!!! Seriously, think about the logic. Football is a team game but we don't want the team to suffer because of one players actions! But it's a team game, players can win and lose you games, that life, that's team sports. It actually defies logic teams can prosper because of the actions of a single player and they can suffer also, that's the dynamic of of team sports, that's what makes it what it is. It's not a deterrent to a player when he knows a sub can take his place, in fact it takes away responsibility to the team for players knowing they're not really letting the team down, in fact cynically stopping a certain score which may cost your team a win and then being rewarded by being allowed to bring on a fresh replacement is a win win. No matter what way you look at it, the thinking behind it and the punishment involved is bizarre beyond belief. tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1353 - 29/06/2016 19:10:30 1873979 Link
Scrap it, it was a bad idea to begin with.Proper enforcement of the rules is whats required . Condorman (Dublin) - Posts: 983 - 30/06/2016 13:54:44 1874256 Link