|
Replying To GaryMc82: "I'm not sure how that would work with the league seeding, without expanding the current AIC, which I'm not opposed to. Can you map out how that would work Omahant?
Ideally we need to give the clubs greater consideration, and also the players themselves who train all year round.
I would scrap league finals, and just have top of the table wins it.
Northern Regional League (10 teams Div 1, 6 teams Div 2)
Southern Regional League ( 10 teams Div 1, 6 teams Div 2).
I don't think we need a National League winner either, like a Regional would be fine and that would give the All Ireland Championship a more unique National dimension." Of course these ideas are all hypothetical -
N1 (div 1 north champ) v 2S1 (div 2 south champ, 8th seed)
N2 v S7 (div 1 south 7th) or 2S2 (div 2 south 2nd)
N3 v S6 or 2S3
N4 v S5
S4 v N5
S3 v N6 or 2N3
S2 v N7 or 2N2
S1 v 2N1
Separately, league finals - N1 v S1; 2N1 v 2S1 (or alternatively, give NF finals 2 chances, 2 NFL champs advance, 2 losers playoff, before blending in above).
3 up / 3 down = 20 team KO prior yr = NFL Div 1 the next.
omahant (USA) - Posts: 2611 - 21/06/2016 17:17:28
1870369
Link
0
|
|
Ok so bear with me here.
Merging Provincial championships with league and All Ireland series.
London to Ulster.
Ulster 2 groups of 5
Leinster 1 group of 5 and 1 group of 6.
Munster 1 group of 6
Connacht 1 group of 5.
Top 2 from each group into provincial knockout round. So that creates Ulster semi-finalists and Leinster semi-finalist plus Connacht and Munster finals.
In addition to that the All Ireland series is created with 3 groups of 6 with teams that finished in the top 3 in their group. So 6 from Ulster and Leinster, 3 from Munster and Connacht. Each group is made up of 2 from Ulster, 2 from Leinster, 1 from Connacht and 1 from Munster plus 2 group winners, 2 group runners up and 2 group 3rd place teams.
Top 2 from each group qualifies for the All Ireland quarter-finals. 3rd placed teams enter an All Ireland playoff round to be joined by the division 2 champions.
Division 2
2 groups of 5 plus one group of 4 made up of teams not qualified for the Division 1 All Ireland.
4 teams from Ulster, 5 teams from Leinster, 3 teams from Munster and 2 teams from Connacht.
Like the division 1 teams are mixed up based of both geography and placing in their group.
Each group gets 2 4th placed teams, 2 fifth placed teams and the groups of 5 also get a 6th placed team.
The knockout rounds work as follows.
Playoff round 3rd B v 3rd C
QF 1st A v Playoff winner
QF 1st C v 2nd A
QF 1st B v 3rd A
QF 2nd B v 2nd C
Open draw semi-finals
Winner qualifies for AI play off round.
Season needs 18 weeks to be completed
5 for provincial groups
9 for division 2 (5 for groups and 4 for playoffs), meanwhile the division 1 groups and provincial knockout rounds get played.
4 for AI playoff series.
It wouldn't need too many break weeks as they get naturally incorporated into the season. I'd say start the season first week of Mar and play it off over 5 months with an All Ireland final on the August bank holiday.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4236 - 21/06/2016 19:31:00
1870426
Link
0
|
|
Got a new one
Gets rid of qualifiers.
Teams play their provincial knockout competitions as usual but they also play other round robin matches to qualify for an All Ireland last 16.
Take Connacht.
They will all play each other but of the 15 games 5 of them will be part of the Connacht championship and the other 10 matches will be part of group matches.
In Ulster the draw will be split into 2 halves. A group of 5 and one of 4.
In the group of 5 there will be 4 Ulster championship games plus another 6 fixtures where the teams not meeting play each other.
The group of 4 will have 3 Ulster championship matches plus 3 other regular group games.
Leinster has a group of 5 and a group of 6.
Munster is played the same way as Connacht.
At the end of this section there'll be 6 teams who have won their groups knockout competition. That will create 2 Ulster finalists, 2 Leinster finalists and a Connacht and Munster champion.
Those 6 teams are into the last 16.
The Leinster and Ulster finals will be played then.
Group placing will then be used to determine the other teams qualifying for the past 16.
There will be 3 teams each from Connacht and Munster and 5 teams from each of Ulster and Leinster. Decided by group placings. So overall there'll be 2 from each group in Ulster plus the final place will be decided by a playoff between the third place team from each group.
Teams will play between 3 and 5 games within their province before moving on to the All Ireland last 16.
In total I think that gets us to 95 matches.
The provincial series can be played over 8/9 weeks followed by the AI last 16. More matches but played off in the same time frame as now.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4236 - 22/06/2016 19:36:34
1870885
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Whammo86: "Got a new one
Gets rid of qualifiers.
Teams play their provincial knockout competitions as usual but they also play other round robin matches to qualify for an All Ireland last 16.
Take Connacht.
They will all play each other but of the 15 games 5 of them will be part of the Connacht championship and the other 10 matches will be part of group matches.
In Ulster the draw will be split into 2 halves. A group of 5 and one of 4.
In the group of 5 there will be 4 Ulster championship games plus another 6 fixtures where the teams not meeting play each other.
The group of 4 will have 3 Ulster championship matches plus 3 other regular group games.
Leinster has a group of 5 and a group of 6.
Munster is played the same way as Connacht.
At the end of this section there'll be 6 teams who have won their groups knockout competition. That will create 2 Ulster finalists, 2 Leinster finalists and a Connacht and Munster champion.
Those 6 teams are into the last 16.
The Leinster and Ulster finals will be played then.
Group placing will then be used to determine the other teams qualifying for the past 16.
There will be 3 teams each from Connacht and Munster and 5 teams from each of Ulster and Leinster. Decided by group placings. So overall there'll be 2 from each group in Ulster plus the final place will be decided by a playoff between the third place team from each group.
Teams will play between 3 and 5 games within their province before moving on to the All Ireland last 16.
In total I think that gets us to 95 matches.
The provincial series can be played over 8/9 weeks followed by the AI last 16. More matches but played off in the same time frame as now." Using this year's Ulster championship draw you'd have had group stages as follows and the Ulster championship section follows a regular Ulster championship schedule.
Group A Derry, Tyrone, Cavan, Armagh
Group B Antrim, Fermanagh, Monaghan, Down, Donegal
It gets played off over 10 weeks.
1 Preliminary Round Fermanagh v Antrim
2 QF Derry v Tyrone
3 Group game Antrim v Donegal QF Cavan v Armagh
4 QF Monaghan v Down
5 Group games Derry v Armagh Antrim v Monaghan QF Fermanagh v Donegal
6 Group game Antrim v Down SF Cavan v Tyrone
7 SF Monaghan v Donegal
8 Group game Derry v Cavan Tyrone v Armagh Fermanagh v Monaghan Down v Donegal
9 Group game Fermanagh v Down
10 Play off game for 5th AI qualifying place Ulster Final
Something similar gets done for the other 3 championships where all games are played off over 10 weeks.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4236 - 22/06/2016 22:28:50
1870938
Link
0
|
|
I'm addicted too Omahant.
I actually think this following one could work really well.
Preliminary rounds in each province as is:
This gets us down to 8 teams in each of Leinster and Ulster plus 4 teams in each of Connacht and Munster.
The 4 teams in Connacht play semi-finals and finals but there are also 3 round robin games so that all 4 teams play one another once. We get a Connacht champion straight into the AI last 16, best other team from the group also qualifies. 3rd place team goes into a playoff round.
Same system in Munster.
Each half in Leinster and Ulster works in a similar way. Ulster and Leinster finalists qualify for last 16 plus next best team in each group. 3rd place teams into playoff round.
There's an Ulster and Leinster final played after the groups have been completed.
That leaves 12 teams through plus 6 teams playing each other for 3 more spaces.
The final space in the last 16 is given to the Tommy Murphy cup champion. That is played between the 8 teams that lost the provincial preliminary rounds.
There would need to be a change to the preliminary rounds so that Ulster and Connacht are seeded. That's the only real change to the provincial championships.
Based on this year we'd have a Tommy Murphy cup of Antrim, Carlow, Wicklow, Longford, Limerick, Waterford, London, Leitrim. The final of that tournament is played as a doubleheader at Croke Park with the Leinster final.
15 from 24 of the remaining teams qualify for the last 16.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4236 - 23/06/2016 00:08:34
1870983
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Whammo86: "Ok so bear with me here.
Merging Provincial championships with league and All Ireland series.
London to Ulster.
Ulster 2 groups of 5
Leinster 1 group of 5 and 1 group of 6.
Munster 1 group of 6
Connacht 1 group of 5.
Top 2 from each group into provincial knockout round. So that creates Ulster semi-finalists and Leinster semi-finalist plus Connacht and Munster finals.
In addition to that the All Ireland series is created with 3 groups of 6 with teams that finished in the top 3 in their group. So 6 from Ulster and Leinster, 3 from Munster and Connacht. Each group is made up of 2 from Ulster, 2 from Leinster, 1 from Connacht and 1 from Munster plus 2 group winners, 2 group runners up and 2 group 3rd place teams.
Top 2 from each group qualifies for the All Ireland quarter-finals. 3rd placed teams enter an All Ireland playoff round to be joined by the division 2 champions.
Division 2
2 groups of 5 plus one group of 4 made up of teams not qualified for the Division 1 All Ireland.
4 teams from Ulster, 5 teams from Leinster, 3 teams from Munster and 2 teams from Connacht.
Like the division 1 teams are mixed up based of both geography and placing in their group.
Each group gets 2 4th placed teams, 2 fifth placed teams and the groups of 5 also get a 6th placed team.
The knockout rounds work as follows.
Playoff round 3rd B v 3rd C
QF 1st A v Playoff winner
QF 1st C v 2nd A
QF 1st B v 3rd A
QF 2nd B v 2nd C
Open draw semi-finals
Winner qualifies for AI play off round.
Season needs 18 weeks to be completed
5 for provincial groups
9 for division 2 (5 for groups and 4 for playoffs), meanwhile the division 1 groups and provincial knockout rounds get played.
4 for AI playoff series.
It wouldn't need too many break weeks as they get naturally incorporated into the season. I'd say start the season first week of Mar and play it off over 5 months with an All Ireland final on the August bank holiday." Like this one Wham - if - we are merging NFL into Championship, as I know you are.
I prefer this to your other similar idea as there is a Muns and Conn Final.
omahant (USA) - Posts: 2611 - 25/06/2016 20:17:32
1871966
Link
0
|
|
Replying To omahant: "Like this one Wham - if - we are merging NFL into Championship, as I know you are.
I prefer this to your other similar idea as there is a Muns and Conn Final." I think it'd make a decent season.
Weaker teams get games at the start of the season against stronger opposition.
They move on to a competition more at their level.
9 of 14 teams make it through to a knockout stage. Knockout stage is seeded so it makes group placement important.
I don't think it'd have a hope of being accepted near term. It takes the provincial series away from its traditional spot.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4236 - 26/06/2016 09:31:26
1872120
Link
0
|
|
I think my other proposal would have a chance of working.
It is similar to Kevin McStays proposal. Something similar was included in the 18 championship proposals submitted by county board for consideration.
http://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/kevin-mcstay-explains-his-format-for-rescuing-the-provincial-and-allireland-championships-31275692.html
The main tweaks to it being that there's a first round to determine the Junior teams.
The provincial championships are still straight knockout they just also include extra group games to qualify for the All Ireland series.
The All Ireland series sees 16 teams and also includes the TMC winner.
I really feel a tiered championship that remains part of the AI for that year is the way we need to go.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4236 - 26/06/2016 09:53:54
1872134
Link
0
|
|
Watching the Euro 16, it seems giving some 3rd placed teams but not all with one win keeps the group stage alive to the end for all.
Based on GPA 8x4 - After Prov SFs, put a Prov Final in each of 4 groups and a pair of Div 4 teams in the 4 pools.
Draw remaining 16 openly, with a pair to each group/pool.
Like Euro 16, have two thirds qualify - 22 teams 'with best record' in KO (1v22, 2v21 etc).
11 winners - 5 best QFs, other 6 playoff.
omahant (USA) - Posts: 2611 - 26/06/2016 17:31:19
1872322
Link
0
|
|
Or, put 1 Prov SF (L,U,M,C) from 2 different Provs in each of 4 groups - say, LC, LM, UC, UM.
16 non-SFs in the 4 pools.
In Rd of 22, Top 11 from Pools host Top 11 from Groups.
11 winners - Top 5 Group seeds to AI QFs, Other 6 Playoff
omahant (USA) - Posts: 2611 - 30/06/2016 17:15:09
1874393
Link
0
|
|
Hi Lads, Here is my proposal for a new All Ireland and Provincial championship format, along the same lines as proposals above
Priorities are.
1. All Ireland football final to be played in August Bank holiday to support club championship games to be played in August and September.
2. Weaker counties are given a route that will allow them to compete for an All Ireland Semi-Final spot.
3. Provincial championship to be played in a group/pool format as follows
Parameters
1. Counties don't want to play in a B championship
2. Counties won't want to scrap the provincial championships so we need a work around
Provincial championship
Leinster Pool 1- 6 counties
Leinster Pool 2- 6 counties
Ulster Pool 1- 5 Counties
Ulster Pool 2- 5 counties inc London
Connaught 6 counties inc New York
Munster 6 counties
*Each county Plays each other once in their Pool/province in a league format ( e.g a Munster county will play 5 games)
*Objective is to give weaker counties more games to bring them up to standard
*1st in Leinster Pool 1 will play 1st in Leinster pool 2 in Leinster final
*Same for Ulster.
*Winners of Leinster and Ulster go forward to All Ireland Quarter final
*Losers of Leinster and Ulster go forward to All Ireland last 3rd round
*1st in Connaught and 1st Munster play off for All Ireland quarter final spot
*Losers of Connaught and Munster play off go into last 3rd round
*Provincial games are to be played off consecutively in 4/5 weeks
All Ireland Championship
4th, 5th and 6th placed teams from the 6 pools/provinces will tally 16 counties
1st round: These 16 counties play each other in a knockout round
2nd round: The 8 Winners from the 1st round play each other in a knockout
3rd round: The 4 winners from the 2nd round play each other in a knockout
All Ireland Quarter Final: The 2 winners from the 3rd round play each other for a place in the All Ireland Semi-final
This format is designed to give weaker counties a guaranteed chance to play in an All-Ireland semi-Final
2nd, 3rd placed teams from the 6 pools/provinces will tally 12 counties
1st round: These 12 counties play each other in a knockout round
2nd round: The 6 Winners from the 1st round play each other in a knockout
3rd round: The 3 winners from the 2nd round play the 3 provincial/playoff losers
All Ireland Quarter Final: The 3 winners from the 3rd round play the 3 provincial/playoff winners
for 3 places in the All-Ireland Semi-final
*Provincial finals/play-off and 1st round of All Ireland to be played on same weekend
* 1st, 2nd and 3rd round to be played off consecutively in 3 weeks
* The Carrot is still to win your province
* The Provincial group league concept gives teams more championship games
* The All-Ireland format gives weaker counties a better chance to progress to an All-Ireland semi-final spot
Structural changes to support new format.
1. Leagues be split in 1A, 1B, 2A, 2B, 3A, 3B, 4 with maximum of each county playing 3-4 games played, with promotion and relegation and finals (1A V 1B) etc
This will allow less league games for more championship games
2. Shorted the calender's season, Leagues start at the end of February and All Ireland final played on August bank Holiday
3. Clubs play club league games without county players but will have senior county players for club championship starting in August.
4. Merge minior and U20/21 into a U19 championship played starting in August after All Ireland Senior championship. U19 players are prohibited from playing senior club, senior county and 3rd level (sigerson) competitions.
TirChonaillAbu (Donegal) - Posts: 45 - 02/07/2016 13:38:30
1874998
Link
0
|
|
Pretty similar to Jim McG's plan.
3 league divisions
Division 1 12 teams
Division 2 10 teams
Division 3 10 teams
All division play a single round robin. 11 games for division 1 teams, 9 in each of the lower divisions.
Every team enter their normal provincial championship.
Division 2 and 3 teams play in another championship. Let's call it the Paidi O'Se cup.
The winner of the Paidi O'Se qualifies for the AI series, along with the 12 division 1 teams plus the 4 Provincial champions. There'll be between 13 and 17 teams qualifying (almost always less than 16 as it'll be rare for lower division teams to win their province).
Criteria will be used to determine the teams getting a bye to the quarter-finals. If there's 13 teams you could use top 3 provincial champions based on league position or simply top 3 from division 1 get byes.
A sample season schedule would look something like this
5th February NFL round 1
12 February NFL round 2
19th February break week for Sigerson cup
26th February NFL round 3
5th March NFL round 4
12th March NFL round 5
19th March break week
26th March NFL round 6
2nd April NFL round 7
9th April NFL round 8
16th April break week
23rd April division 2 and 3 round 9, Division 1 free - Time available for club championship
30th April Paidi O'Se cup round 1, division 1 free
7th May Paidi O'Se cup round 2 division 1 free
14th May Provincial championship
21th May Provincial championship
28th May Provincial championship
4nd June Paidi O'Se cup quarter-final, Division 1 round 9
11th June Provincial championship
18th June Provincial championship
25th June Paidi O'Se cup semi-final, division 1 round 10
2nd July Provincial championship
9th July Provincial championship
16th July Paidi O'Se cup final, division 1 round 11
23rd July Provincial championship
30th July Provincial championship
6th August All Ireland round 1
13th August All Ireland quarter final
20th August break
27th August All Ireland semi-final 1
3rd September All Ireland Semi-final 2
10th September Hurling Final
24th September Football Final
Thinking behind it is more prominence for the league, easier scheduling for club football without qualifiers. Paidi O'Se cup is a meaningful competition providing the winners with entry to the All Ireland series.
3 up 3 down between divisions.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4236 - 05/07/2016 19:49:57
1876983
Link
0
|