National Forum

Question for our Northern Brethren

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Also DCFC do you not think it's just a little bit arrogant to suggest you wouldn't need to ask anyone in Ireland about their county just because you've set foot in it?

MedwayIrish (Wexford) - Posts: 2324 - 15/06/2016 20:57:09    1867420

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I don't think its arrogant. I've lived in many cities with bigger populations than Ireland and lived with people from all over Ireland to know its a tiny wee island with very little differences from place to place. I had many a pint in Wexford town when I was living in down in Tullow (and a hole Tullow is) and nothing looked any different to me

DoireCityFC (Derry) - Posts: 1580 - 15/06/2016 21:04:17    1867425

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Replying To DoireCityFC:  "I don't think its arrogant. I've lived in many cities with bigger populations than Ireland and lived with people from all over Ireland to know its a tiny wee island with very little differences from place to place. I had many a pint in Wexford town when I was living in down in Tullow (and a hole Tullow is) and nothing looked any different to me"
To be fair, I've been to Tulla, and I'd say its significantly different to Tullow. Tallow, on the other hand, would have similarities to both Tulla, and Tullow.

Up Tipp

Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - Posts: 1823 - 15/06/2016 22:16:08    1867453

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Some girl on the Brexit debate last night referred to
the North of Ireland and Arlene Foster the First Minister
took to twitter to say there was no such place.Typical
of the Unionists in this puppet state.

REDANDBLACK30 (Down) - Posts: 1617 - 16/06/2016 12:15:54    1867635

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Replying To DoireCityFC:  "I don't think its arrogant. I've lived in many cities with bigger populations than Ireland and lived with people from all over Ireland to know its a tiny wee island with very little differences from place to place. I had many a pint in Wexford town when I was living in down in Tullow (and a hole Tullow is) and nothing looked any different to me"
Is it a hole? It's a quiet village in a rural setting. Maybe not the most exciting place in the world but then who in their right mind would compare it to a city with 5 million + ?

And regardless of that, fair enough, you might have met everyone and lived everywhere and no longer have the need for an enquiring mind, but for those who mightn't be as well travelled for whatever reason (possibly not everyone has your disposable income or lack of family ties for example)
I see no problem asking the question.

MedwayIrish (Wexford) - Posts: 2324 - 16/06/2016 12:35:08    1867647

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I don't think that Tyrone can claim to have that particular disadvantage. The county has a population of 170,000 and is 80% nationalist.

We also have 60 odd GAA clubs.

We can make lots of excuses for not winning more All Ireland's but unfortunately the sectarian divide up north is not one of them.
Wally (Tyrone) - Posts:133 - 09/06/2016 13:41:11 1864229

Unfortunately I would day 80% is stretching it a bit. We also have 48 football clubs, along with a couple of hurling and stand alone ladies clubs not 60 odd.

benched (Tyrone) - Posts: 534 - 16/06/2016 13:02:38    1867657

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Replying To REDANDBLACK30:  "Some girl on the Brexit debate last night referred to
the North of Ireland and Arlene Foster the First Minister
took to twitter to say there was no such place.Typical
of the Unionists in this puppet state."
Aye it was very petty of Foster but typical of her and the DUP. They are just driven by bigotry and sectarianism. Foster has been a very divisive character since she took over as first minister. She obviously sees herself as the first minister for Unionism only and doesn't even recognise the culture and identity of 900,000 Irish Nationalists in the North. Relations between the two communities have worsened since she took over.

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9702 - 16/06/2016 13:03:00    1867658

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Replying To Ulsterman:  "Aye it was very petty of Foster but typical of her and the DUP. They are just driven by bigotry and sectarianism. Foster has been a very divisive character since she took over as first minister. She obviously sees herself as the first minister for Unionism only and doesn't even recognise the culture and identity of 900,000 Irish Nationalists in the North. Relations between the two communities have worsened since she took over."
Ulsterman 22 years on from the ceasefires and
the Unionists have not budged one iota??? I
had hoped they would mellow in peace time.

Talking about celebrating 100 years of this
horrible state in a few years time.I heard
this with dismay. They have have nothing
to celebrate. It was a disgrace from the
outset and will remain a disgrace until
it is consigned to the dustbin of history.

REDANDBLACK30 (Down) - Posts: 1617 - 16/06/2016 13:43:11    1867677

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Replying To Ulsterman:  "Aye it was very petty of Foster but typical of her and the DUP. They are just driven by bigotry and sectarianism. Foster has been a very divisive character since she took over as first minister. She obviously sees herself as the first minister for Unionism only and doesn't even recognise the culture and identity of 900,000 Irish Nationalists in the North. Relations between the two communities have worsened since she took over."
I suspect that people of a true British Unionist political mindset, will never fully embrace a GAA that was founded and continues to be based on a 32 County All Ireland basis, structured within the ancient 4 Provinces ( Although there was 5 provinces for a lot longer). Why support something that clearly goes against the fundamental principles of your political philosophy.

I strongly suspect many Southern political parties would fear the long term effects of merging of 1.8 million northern people to 4.6 million southern people, as it would severely weaken their percentages in a new Dail. The main parties currently struggle to get 51% of the current Dail Eireann representing 4.6 million people, the addition of 1.8 or 1.9 million people with no generational history of support for Fianna Fail or Fine Gael would probably reduce the numbers those parties significantly, while increasing their bitter rivals numbers.

Perhaps Northern Unionists are not the only people opposed to a United Ireland.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 16/06/2016 15:20:46    1867712

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I'd say that there would be a fair percentage of the population in ROI against it too Gary: 30+ years of RTE censorship/ INM brainwashing goes a long way.

Gleebo (Mayo) - Posts: 2208 - 16/06/2016 15:41:43    1867723

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Replying To REDANDBLACK30:  "Ulsterman 22 years on from the ceasefires and
the Unionists have not budged one iota??? I
had hoped they would mellow in peace time.

Talking about celebrating 100 years of this
horrible state in a few years time.I heard
this with dismay. They have have nothing
to celebrate. It was a disgrace from the
outset and will remain a disgrace until
it is consigned to the dustbin of history."
You forget that Unionists already have what they want, they remain part of the Britain that planted them in Ulster. Every time they budge on something, or reduce their stance, they lose more ground.

A Unionist fella I work with, expressed his concern about the current religious demographics of Northern Ireland after the last census, of which i took a small sample to show what he referred to.

Aged 60 -64 = Catholics = 35.8% Protestant = 50.0%
Aged 35-39 = Catholics = 41.5% Protestant = 37.8%
Aged 25-29 = Catholics = 44.8% Protestant = 33.1%

This does not represent whether people are Unionist or Nationalist politically, but does show that the Protestant/Unionist Majority is no longer the case and maybe brings home the message that political change is inevitable if the majority of Catholics remain of a Nationalist political outlook.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 16/06/2016 15:47:50    1867728

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Replying To GaryMc82:  "You forget that Unionists already have what they want, they remain part of the Britain that planted them in Ulster. Every time they budge on something, or reduce their stance, they lose more ground.

A Unionist fella I work with, expressed his concern about the current religious demographics of Northern Ireland after the last census, of which i took a small sample to show what he referred to.

Aged 60 -64 = Catholics = 35.8% Protestant = 50.0%
Aged 35-39 = Catholics = 41.5% Protestant = 37.8%
Aged 25-29 = Catholics = 44.8% Protestant = 33.1%

This does not represent whether people are Unionist or Nationalist politically, but does show that the Protestant/Unionist Majority is no longer the case and maybe brings home the message that political change is inevitable if the majority of Catholics remain of a Nationalist political outlook."
Gary you are right that the constitutional status will
rest in the hands of Catholics. Sadly the Belfast
Telegraph has said lots of Catholics will vote against
a United Ireland therefore propping up the state of
those that oppressed them.

REDANDBLACK30 (Down) - Posts: 1617 - 16/06/2016 16:20:06    1867745

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If you expand the Census figures out further Gary then it is quite obvious that it won't be too many years til the majority in the North declare as Catholic. If you take the age groups:

0-29 the breakdown is 45% Catholic to 35% Protestant
30-59 is 40.6% Catholic to 41% Protestant
60+ is 33% Catholic to 55% Protestant

So it is quite obvious that the ages where there are majorities for Protestants is in the 60+ age group - and within that there are huge differences at the top end of the scale i.e. 90+ is 64% Protestant, 85-89 is 62% Protestant, 80-84 is 60% Protestant with the gap narrowing the younger you get towards 60. Now, unless the Protestants have been working on some secret live for ever potion it doesn't take too much thinking to realise that these age groups won't be round much longer. However, as you say Gary, Catholic majority does not automatically equate to Nationalistic thinking though you can see why the Unionists might be worried.

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 16/06/2016 16:34:37    1867754

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Replying To REDANDBLACK30:  "
Replying To GaryMc82:  "You forget that Unionists already have what they want, they remain part of the Britain that planted them in Ulster. Every time they budge on something, or reduce their stance, they lose more ground.

A Unionist fella I work with, expressed his concern about the current religious demographics of Northern Ireland after the last census, of which i took a small sample to show what he referred to.

Aged 60 -64 = Catholics = 35.8% Protestant = 50.0%
Aged 35-39 = Catholics = 41.5% Protestant = 37.8%
Aged 25-29 = Catholics = 44.8% Protestant = 33.1%

This does not represent whether people are Unionist or Nationalist politically, but does show that the Protestant/Unionist Majority is no longer the case and maybe brings home the message that political change is inevitable if the majority of Catholics remain of a Nationalist political outlook."
Gary you are right that the constitutional status will
rest in the hands of Catholics. Sadly the Belfast
Telegraph has said lots of Catholics will vote against
a United Ireland therefore propping up the state of
those that oppressed them."
That would be the pro-Unionist Belfast Telegraph R&B. I wouldn't set too much by that. I love the way they assume any referendum would be a foregone conclusion.

MedwayIrish (Wexford) - Posts: 2324 - 16/06/2016 16:37:47    1867758

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Replying To REDANDBLACK30:  "
Replying To GaryMc82:  "You forget that Unionists already have what they want, they remain part of the Britain that planted them in Ulster. Every time they budge on something, or reduce their stance, they lose more ground.

A Unionist fella I work with, expressed his concern about the current religious demographics of Northern Ireland after the last census, of which i took a small sample to show what he referred to.

Aged 60 -64 = Catholics = 35.8% Protestant = 50.0%
Aged 35-39 = Catholics = 41.5% Protestant = 37.8%
Aged 25-29 = Catholics = 44.8% Protestant = 33.1%

This does not represent whether people are Unionist or Nationalist politically, but does show that the Protestant/Unionist Majority is no longer the case and maybe brings home the message that political change is inevitable if the majority of Catholics remain of a Nationalist political outlook."
Gary you are right that the constitutional status will
rest in the hands of Catholics. Sadly the Belfast
Telegraph has said lots of Catholics will vote against
a United Ireland therefore propping up the state of
those that oppressed them."
Britain isn't stupid. They know keeping that third of the Catholic population in their comfortable public sector jobs ensures the status quo for the foreseeable future. The garden centre/golf club Castle Catholic is too well off to be worrying about constitutional issues. I mean, come on, who would pay the Malone Road/Upper Antrim Road half a million pound mortgage?

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9702 - 16/06/2016 16:43:22    1867760

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Replying To MedwayIrish:  "
Replying To REDANDBLACK30:  "[quote=GaryMc82:  "You forget that Unionists already have what they want, they remain part of the Britain that planted them in Ulster. Every time they budge on something, or reduce their stance, they lose more ground.

A Unionist fella I work with, expressed his concern about the current religious demographics of Northern Ireland after the last census, of which i took a small sample to show what he referred to.

Aged 60 -64 = Catholics = 35.8% Protestant = 50.0%
Aged 35-39 = Catholics = 41.5% Protestant = 37.8%
Aged 25-29 = Catholics = 44.8% Protestant = 33.1%

This does not represent whether people are Unionist or Nationalist politically, but does show that the Protestant/Unionist Majority is no longer the case and maybe brings home the message that political change is inevitable if the majority of Catholics remain of a Nationalist political outlook."
Gary you are right that the constitutional status will
rest in the hands of Catholics. Sadly the Belfast
Telegraph has said lots of Catholics will vote against
a United Ireland therefore propping up the state of
those that oppressed them."
That would be the pro-Unionist Belfast Telegraph R&B. I wouldn't set too much by that. I love the way they assume any referendum would be a foregone conclusion."]Medway the Belfast Telegraph is certainly pro Unionist
to a large degree. The Newsletter is even more Unionist.
The Belfast Telegraph is forever running polls on this
that say that Catholics will vote against it. Although maybe
if there was a border poll Nationalist fervour might win
some back to Nationalism; it seems too many
Catholics have been brain washed to win a border poll.

REDANDBLACK30 (Down) - Posts: 1617 - 16/06/2016 16:55:21    1867765

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Exactly Ulsterman you wont get too many Nationalists
voting for a United Ireland on the Malone Road. Rory
Mcilroy is an example of this new Catholic Unionist
generation. Nationalists have been bought and sold
with British gold as you say Ulsterman.

REDANDBLACK30 (Down) - Posts: 1617 - 16/06/2016 17:06:47    1867772

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The percentage of Northern Ireland protestants, who strongly oppose a United Ireland and wish to remain part of Britain, is probably 99% or greater. It has nothing to do with economic factors etc, for them it is purely about the cultural identity they have been brought up to believe in.

While the percentage of Northern Ireland Catholics who are in strongly favour of a United Ireland, and don't wish to remain part of Britain, could well be 95% or even far less. They will look at economic factors or worry about jobs, education and healthcare etc rather than simply cultural identity.

So it will never be a straightforward vote, but certainly we can rest assured that 99% of the protestant community will remain unionist regardless of those factors, while Catholics are more prone to be swayed. Regardless I genuinely believe Ireland will be re-united in my lifetime, especially if Europe is overseeing such a transition.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 16/06/2016 17:19:43    1867778

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Replying To GaryMc82:  "The percentage of Northern Ireland protestants, who strongly oppose a United Ireland and wish to remain part of Britain, is probably 99% or greater. It has nothing to do with economic factors etc, for them it is purely about the cultural identity they have been brought up to believe in.

While the percentage of Northern Ireland Catholics who are in strongly favour of a United Ireland, and don't wish to remain part of Britain, could well be 95% or even far less. They will look at economic factors or worry about jobs, education and healthcare etc rather than simply cultural identity.

So it will never be a straightforward vote, but certainly we can rest assured that 99% of the protestant community will remain unionist regardless of those factors, while Catholics are more prone to be swayed. Regardless I genuinely believe Ireland will be re-united in my lifetime, especially if Europe is overseeing such a transition."
Living standards in the Republic are much higher than
in the North. Working class Nationalists and Unionists
would be much better off under a United Ireland.

The upper classes like those in the Malone Road will
be worse off as there will not be as they will have to
take lower paid jobs in the private sector and forfeit
their public sector jobs.

Geographical location will play a big part too. If you were
a lawyer from a republican area like the Falls Road I
think they would vote in favour of a United Ireland
because of an attachment to "a nation once again".
A Catholic lawyer from the Malone Road has no such
attachment to the goal of a united Ireland. Likely to
vote against.

REDANDBLACK30 (Down) - Posts: 1617 - 16/06/2016 17:37:47    1867802

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How would the Dublin government stop the
Unionists causing trouble in a united Ireland
if a border poll was successful ??? I would say
it would be a major headache for them.

REDANDBLACK30 (Down) - Posts: 1617 - 16/06/2016 17:48:28    1867807

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