National Forum

Meath vs Antrim

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Replying To bumpernut:  "I must say the one winner in all this will be TG4 now, I assume they will cover it live again.

As the interest sparked by the controversy is bound to boost their viewing figures.

Of course the GAA will also benefit with the extra revenue but lets not go there please!"
I think its more likely to reduce them . if this replay goes ahead on Saturday (and I hope Meath refuse to play it) Antrim will inevitably win it, and probably by a sizeable margin.

As the opinion piece on the Hoganstand home page says, the simplest solution to this fiasco (and also the wisest) is to leave the trophy and the title with Meath (for whom the title means everything ) and let both teams play a decider early next year to decide which team plays in the McCarthy Cup. That would appear to be Antrim's primary goal -- they see the McCarthy Cup competition as their rightful place and their Christy Ring sojourn as a kind of waking nightmare, so winning the trophy would be no big deal to them. For Meath on the other hand winning the Christy Ring means everything and qualifying for the McCarthy Cup would be a poisoned chalice. Undoubtedly they would not hold their own in the McCarthy Cup and would be out of their depth and from a competitive point of view would be far better off spending another year at Christy Ring level and consolidating their progress.

PoolSturgeon (Galway) - Posts: 1905 - 08/06/2016 11:33:43    1863489

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And what happens then arock in the situation where say a referee loses his pencil which is his means of recording the score in his book and uses the scoreboard as his marker? Do you take the score from the point he last had his pencil? If so, do we know what time he lost it so we can see who actually was ahead and should be declared the winners?

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 08/06/2016 11:33:47    1863490

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Replying To PoolSturgeon:  "I think its more likely to reduce them . if this replay goes ahead on Saturday (and I hope Meath refuse to play it) Antrim will inevitably win it, and probably by a sizeable margin.

As the opinion piece on the Hoganstand home page says, the simplest solution to this fiasco (and also the wisest) is to leave the trophy and the title with Meath (for whom the title means everything ) and let both teams play a decider early next year to decide which team plays in the McCarthy Cup. That would appear to be Antrim's primary goal -- they see the McCarthy Cup competition as their rightful place and their Christy Ring sojourn as a kind of waking nightmare, so winning the trophy would be no big deal to them. For Meath on the other hand winning the Christy Ring means everything and qualifying for the McCarthy Cup would be a poisoned chalice. Undoubtedly they would not hold their own in the McCarthy Cup and would be out of their depth and from a competitive point of view would be far better off spending another year at Christy Ring level and consolidating their progress."
Solution posted on HS homepage seems to be best option for all, but GAA will not back down, they have little interest in a fair solution, just get it over with and get on with the hurling that matters.

seadog54 (Meath) - Posts: 2151 - 08/06/2016 11:40:07    1863498

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well irish downunder, we all knew that they would have have to force a replay even if the official confirmation took another 72hrs.

If the team were still on the beer in Dublin on Monday night then that is either poor management or they were of the opinion they don't care about the replay.

bumpernut (Antrim) - Posts: 1852 - 08/06/2016 11:41:27    1863499

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Replying To murrax:  "Not at all. I don't know who knew what, when to be honest it doesn't matter . When it finally was found the game was a draw the Meath GAA and it's manager needs to accept that and act in a professional and sportsmanlike manner and get on with it .How the GAA handled is a separate matter and they put through the ringer for it. Like I said, if you want the cup you have got to earn it, no free lunch or hiding behind GAA bureaucracy etc...I made a connection to golf where a result is not official until a signed scorecard is turned in. The same should apply with a ref. after a game a signed scorecard makes it official, if he cannot come up with the final score he cannot sign a scorecard hence no cup ceremony.... until an official result is turned in."
What utter crap, in that case you would have trophy presentations in empty stadiums, that would be fairly boring. I really feel sorry for Antrim this is a hard luck story on them for sure, look what happened the Irish showjumping team an official made a mistake which cost them Olympic qualification, they didn't get a 2nd chance.

AthboyCelt (Meath) - Posts: 147 - 08/06/2016 11:46:00    1863502

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Replying To Offside_Rule:  "And what happens then arock in the situation where say a referee loses his pencil which is his means of recording the score in his book and uses the scoreboard as his marker? Do you take the score from the point he last had his pencil? If so, do we know what time he lost it so we can see who actually was ahead and should be declared the winners?"
Every ref at junior level would have a spare pencil or two. In Croke Park, even more options exist, umpires, linesmen, 4th official, even the bloody crowd if he needed a pen / pencil that badly. I do not think that the ref lost his pencil and had to rely on the scoreboard. Perhaps he got confused and doubted his own accuracy and went with the scoreboard. If so, why not check with his umpires who are generally instructed to keep scores too.

Torcaill (Australia) - Posts: 204 - 08/06/2016 11:47:51    1863506

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Replying To PoolSturgeon:  "I think its more likely to reduce them . if this replay goes ahead on Saturday (and I hope Meath refuse to play it) Antrim will inevitably win it, and probably by a sizeable margin.

As the opinion piece on the Hoganstand home page says, the simplest solution to this fiasco (and also the wisest) is to leave the trophy and the title with Meath (for whom the title means everything ) and let both teams play a decider early next year to decide which team plays in the McCarthy Cup. That would appear to be Antrim's primary goal -- they see the McCarthy Cup competition as their rightful place and their Christy Ring sojourn as a kind of waking nightmare, so winning the trophy would be no big deal to them. For Meath on the other hand winning the Christy Ring means everything and qualifying for the McCarthy Cup would be a poisoned chalice. Undoubtedly they would not hold their own in the McCarthy Cup and would be out of their depth and from a competitive point of view would be far better off spending another year at Christy Ring level and consolidating their progress."
So is a compromise then for the two counties to get their heads together and let Meath take the Cup and Antrim the place in next seasons top tier?

Naysayer (Antrim) - Posts: 2071 - 08/06/2016 11:49:50    1863508

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Pool,

I agree with your compromise but surely the 'victory' that Meath attained by winning the cup has been completely tainted now by the subsequent hullabaloo and would they really want to keep it? I dunno maybe the meath supporters can answer that one

However, I would like to address the 'elephant in the room' though and that is do Meath really feel they cant beat Antrim on Saturday night hence their reaction?
I have to say I genuinely feel less confident of gaining a result this week than last week. I also wonder if there is a bit of psychology going on with the victim role they have taken on which only adds to my misgivings.

bumpernut (Antrim) - Posts: 1852 - 08/06/2016 11:53:00    1863510

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Replying To bumpernut:  "well irish downunder, we all knew that they would have have to force a replay even if the official confirmation took another 72hrs.

If the team were still on the beer in Dublin on Monday night then that is either poor management or they were of the opinion they don't care about the replay."
Sorry but your incorrect as when it was mentioned that a cccc meeting would take place meath asked the ccc (as they are entitled to do) to also look at the point that was waved wide as it was a justifiable score and as to why Hawkeye was not used . In which case they would have won outright. Therefore at the time if the CCC had done as asked of them, Meath would be champions still.

Irish_downunder (Meath) - Posts: 631 - 08/06/2016 11:53:46    1863511

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I think Croke Park know full well what they are doing by putting this fixture for Saturday.They know damn well that Meath won't play the fixture,so as to put the blame on Meaths door.

ziggy32001 (Meath) - Posts: 8354 - 08/06/2016 12:05:46    1863517

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What on earth is wrong with officials in the GAA. At the very least both teams should be allowed to compete in Leinster Championship next year. I think the result should be allowed to stand once officials could not rectify the mistake at the time. Hard to believe Meath would be in any mental condition to play this weekend. Antrim have every right to feel aggrieved at the sorry mess created by the GAA.

Byanthon (Tyrone) - Posts: 1780 - 08/06/2016 12:12:04    1863524

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Replying To AthboyCelt:  "What utter crap, in that case you would have trophy presentations in empty stadiums, that would be fairly boring. I really feel sorry for Antrim this is a hard luck story on them for sure, look what happened the Irish showjumping team an official made a mistake which cost them Olympic qualification, they didn't get a 2nd chance."
...so this is how you would do it too, I take it, making a rushed unsure decision and make everybody look like fools as a result. Offaly v Clare in '98 I believe was made replay because the ref blew too early and believed Clare had won the game, Clare lost the replay. Was that the right decision to replay? of course it was...

murrax (Wexford) - Posts: 90 - 08/06/2016 12:39:15    1863552

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Irish down_under - you like a lot of people are looking at this from a Meath and only Meath points of view. With regards your previous post I agree with bumper 100% - I think it was shortsighted at best for those who call the shots in Meath GAA to carry on regardless when the world and her mother knew what the craic was by Sunday, that the match was a draw, that the ref had said as much and that the CCCC were meeting to resolve on Tuesday. Of course none of what went on Saturday evening is Meaths or Antrims fault but I am sorry to say but in my opinion what happened from Sunday onwards within the County with regards to homecomings, celebrations etc lies squarely at the feet of their County executive as there was only ever going to be one conclusion to this saga. I can tell you that if the situation was reversed and our County hadn't pulled the reigns on the celebrations by Sunday I would be on here giving out stink about them for not having the foresight to read the situation as to what the conclusion was going to be and putting the team in a situation where they were then being told to play the game this Saturday. While Meath GAA/supporters etc have every right to be angry with the GAA (as do we) I think that you should be sending some of that anger towards those in officialdom within your own County instead of playing the sole victim card.

Now, on this phantom point issue - why only question this one decision? I could name you a number of decisions given against Antrim in the last 10-15 minutes of the first half in particular that I would then like to see reviewed. Decisions which led directly to Meath scores or decisions we didn't get when in an attacking position in this same period that Meath were getting similar frees for at the other end that I thought were not frees at all. So why only review this one? Do we then get every decision reviewed and if say a free was given where it actually wasn't then we remove the score resulting from said free? That is just ridiculous and to be honest the longer this saga goes on I am beginning to get fed up with a lot of the statements being thrown about.


I have to say I genuinely feel less confident of gaining a result this week than last week. I also wonder if there is a bit of psychology going on with the victim role they have taken on which only adds to my misgivings.

I had the same conversation with my brother bumper and share the exact same concerns. I said to him that I don't know that I do want this game going ahead now to be honest this weekend. In a lot of peoples eyes Meath are the victims here and we all know that given human nature these feelings can end up having funny consequences/influences. Maybe it is that human nature that is being played on with what we have seen over the last few days - who knows? But you know as well as I know that to have Antrim as the overwhelming favourites prior to last Saturdays match was ridiculous or how people who thought we should be walking it got this notion - have people not been keeping up with Antrim Hurling this last few years? We are no world beaters, we are in the Christy Ring for a reason and I knew to win last Saturday we would have to be at the top of our game. But as an Antrim Gael I do not appreciate the position that we are being put in by the other parties involved in this and feel like we are in a no win situation.

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 08/06/2016 12:39:27    1863554

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Replying To Irish_downunder:  "Sorry but your incorrect as when it was mentioned that a cccc meeting would take place meath asked the ccc (as they are entitled to do) to also look at the point that was waved wide as it was a justifiable score and as to why Hawkeye was not used . In which case they would have won outright. Therefore at the time if the CCC had done as asked of them, Meath would be champions still."
Irish while I understand you feeling aggrieved at the 'point that never was', I missed it myself tbh and cant comment either way as I haven't watched a repeat but ive no reason to doubt those who have said it was a point.
However hand on heart did you really think they would just award you that point and be done with it?
I have to say, if the shoe had been on the other foot, I would have been hugely disappointed if my county board had pushed for that as some kind of justification for not having a replay.
That is seriously not meant as a shot across the bow btw, it is just a completely genuine opinion and I would hope most Antrim supporters would feel similarly.

bumpernut (Antrim) - Posts: 1852 - 08/06/2016 12:54:27    1863565

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Another issue is the fact that Meath had a free at the end.If they had known it was a draw game,they may have taken more care with it,instead they were focused in killing it dead.

ziggy32001 (Meath) - Posts: 8354 - 08/06/2016 12:55:40    1863566

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Only question I have is why did this happen? Have I missed something, has a statement been issued? Have we been told why the referee was seemingly depending on a faulty scoreboard? Why the umpires/4th official/ the referee himself weren't taking the score themselves? Lots of speculation with regards to lost pencils etc but do we actually know? Poor form on behalf of the GAA first to wait until Tuesday before holding any form of meeting and not issue a full statement.

meath_ (Meath) - Posts: 25 - 08/06/2016 12:59:30    1863570

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Replying To bumpernut:  "Irish while I understand you feeling aggrieved at the 'point that never was', I missed it myself tbh and cant comment either way as I haven't watched a repeat but ive no reason to doubt those who have said it was a point.
However hand on heart did you really think they would just award you that point and be done with it?
I have to say, if the shoe had been on the other foot, I would have been hugely disappointed if my county board had pushed for that as some kind of justification for not having a replay.
That is seriously not meant as a shot across the bow btw, it is just a completely genuine opinion and I would hope most Antrim supporters would feel similarly."
I agree with what your saying it's just the timeline of the post match events is ridiculous to everyone. Honestly if they had called for the game to be next Saturday the 18th, we wouldn't be having this discussion. I think the management were merely feeling aggrieved that the point was not awarded and were asking for clearance. I honestly don't think that they expected that to be awarded although as the GAA/CCC ALWAYS opt for the easiest way out of an issue, it would not have surprised me if they had of awarded the point and declared meath the winners and watch the carnage unfold while they run and hide..

Irish_downunder (Meath) - Posts: 631 - 08/06/2016 13:20:17    1863581

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When all is said and done do the Meath players really want to win a Championship without the replay?

I know that I'd rather have no massive question marks over any victory I'd have to be honest.

Replay was the only thing to do in an unfortunate situation.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13718 - 08/06/2016 13:24:47    1863588

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Its crazy that time keeping and scorekeeping are still responsibility of the referee . They should be taken away and let the ref focus on refereeing . Its almost impossible to record a score before some keepers have the ball kicked out or pucked out now .

Malonemagic (Laois) - Posts: 767 - 08/06/2016 13:30:40    1863592

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Replying To Richieq:  "Let's get one thing straight here, Meath did not win by cheating or help from a third party and we have never won anything in that way. Meath clarified the score with the match officials having heard concerns, they were told the score at the time was correct by the match officials so could that ever be conducive to either cheating or third party help. In the history of the GAA when your ahead on the scoreboard at the end you win, if we are so insecure that we have to hold off on presentations etc until everything is verified then we may forget about it. And for what it's worth I stand square behind Martin Ennis on his views and agree totally with his statement and look forward to the CCCC response regarding his concerns on Hawkeye"
Nothing was clarified, the ref just gave Meath officials his interpretation of the event but apparently had lost his pencil, as a result was unsure of the score, depended on an incorrect scoreboard over sideline objections, he was obviously was confused and felt pressured to make a decision. History saying the team who is ahead on the scoreboard at the end wins? You mean the correct scoreboard of course, this is why they ruled a replay, incorrect score keeping.

murrax (Wexford) - Posts: 90 - 08/06/2016 13:56:56    1863614

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