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Geezer as a manager and harsh criticism

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Replying To Liamwalkinstown: "One of my favourite footballers ever. Loved his determination and leadership as the THE best 6 of his generation BUT He is all over the place as a manager. He did a shocking job with Kildare and led them down the path they are now in. They had the making of a nice team with lovely natural scoring forwards. He turned them into functional big strong men with as much flair as 15 Glenn Whelans. And now with Armagh.....i mean in a nutshell, if that was a tactic yesterday with the Goalkeeper....that was sheer madness. And the players are just not playing for him. Aaron Kernan "retired" Jamie Clarke on a break etc etc etc..... 2 lads who would make most teams in the country... Legend, always will be, but no manager!" Agreed 100% I have been saying the same for years when he was with Kildare. Did he show any signs of improvement even running big teams close ? No I hear all the talk of him being a great organiser. But all I ever see is him looking serious and staring intensely into the distance. The main problem is that the media created a myth about him as a manager, Mostly based on when he was a player. They tried to make him the "Roy Keane" of the GAA. I remember reading that the Kildare players loved his organisation in training. Let's be honest most GAA players are not the brightest so they need to be told what to do. So it is hardly a ringing endorsement! gormdubhgorm (Dublin) - Posts: 990 - 30/05/2016 17:35:34 1860068 Link
Replying To TheFlaker: "Bit early to judge him, and he did an excellent job with Kildare." I don't buy this myth that he did an excellent job with Kildare. I think he threw away the u21 talent with Kildare and caused no major upsets. If there was a manager with a leesser high profile people would not be saying he did a good job with Kildare. To be honest I was amazed they kept him that long. gormdubhgorm (Dublin) - Posts: 990 - 30/05/2016 17:40:10 1860071 Link
Replying To The_Fridge: "read a lovely article by Jamie Clarke yesterday who was very respectful of Kieran Mcgeeney but he knew the path the Armagh team was going down with style and tactics so knew himself he was better off out of it for his piece of mind and life enjoyment. Jamie Clarke is a fantastic player and fair play too him for wanting to enjoy life......however this dipping in and out off Crossmaglen and Armagh is getting very tiresome to be honest......yeah we get it, you're an individual and want to live life. But he has walked out of cross and Armagh.....travel fair enough but don't travel for a month then come back and take someone's place who has been training there backside off. McGeeney took Kildare from nothing to a highly effective team.....as said they were very unlucky not to be in an all Ireland final and unlucky against Donegal after extra time in another quarter final. He probably stayed on one season too many but many managers have done this in the past....human nature I suppose. On the goalkeeper situation I remember Monaghan putting in the great Darren Hughes I think a few years back. Was there no other goalkeeper in the whole of Armagh who could off come in and done a job......I know if there was a goalkeeping crisis in Tyrone I could name 4-5 keepers who could come in at short notice and do well. I wonder if Paul Hearty was asked? Played with Cross this year and is still excellent and Armagh though and though. Just a thought." I fully agree with you about Clarke. A manager is much better off planning with the players who are fully committed and united rather than continually wondering if your top player is going to stay or go. As regards Armagh's keeper yesterday, he certainly has a different approach but I don't think he was in any way to blame for their loss. Kick outs were difficult, particularly in the first half, as Armagh players were not showing for the ball and he had little option but to go long even though he and everybody knew that Cavan would win it. He was not at fault for the goals. Overall, he showed a lot more desire than many of his team-mates and provided a talking point for anybody watching the game. In his playing days for Roscommon, Cake wasn'averse to heading off down the field on a solo run that left Rossies fans sweating. neverright (Roscommon) - Posts: 1648 - 30/05/2016 17:40:41 1860072 Link
Replying To Liamwalkinstown: "Kernan is 29" He retired in 2014 aged 30 ros1 (Roscommon) - Posts: 1211 - 30/05/2016 17:53:24 1860078 Link
Replying To Donegalman: "My evaluation of McGeeney as a manger is that he was desperately unlucky with kildare. in 2010 they lost narrowly in the leinster final to a last second free that wasnt a free v dublin, and after that, against down in a game they could and should have won. The following year they could have been 6 up had a goal not been disallowed against us in the quarter finals and they were pegged back and lost. I think that with armagh he is totally at sea, so I think that he will always struggle now as I am sure subconsciously he expects his team to struggle." He set out his team to try and bully Cavan yesterday,it did Armagh more harm than good. ziggy32001 (Meath) - Posts: 8354 - 30/05/2016 18:11:38 1860089 Link
Replying To gormdubhgorm: "I don't buy this myth that he did an excellent job with Kildare. I think he threw away the u21 talent with Kildare and caused no major upsets. If there was a manager with a leesser high profile people would not be saying he did a good job with Kildare. To be honest I was amazed they kept him that long." You said he never ran any of the big teams close? That isn't true to be fair. He got the best out of a run of the mill team. TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 7902 - 30/05/2016 18:14:00 1860091 Link
Replying To Liamwalkinstown: "One of my favourite footballers ever. Loved his determination and leadership as the THE best 6 of his generation BUT He is all over the place as a manager. He did a shocking job with Kildare and led them down the path they are now in. They had the making of a nice team with lovely natural scoring forwards. He turned them into functional big strong men with as much flair as 15 Glenn Whelans. And now with Armagh.....i mean in a nutshell, if that was a tactic yesterday with the Goalkeeper....that was sheer madness. And the players are just not playing for him. Aaron Kernan "retired" Jamie Clarke on a break etc etc etc..... 2 lads who would make most teams in the country... Legend, always will be, but no manager!" I don't agree with that Kildare assessment. They were in a bad place before Geezer took over and they were almost AI finalists in 2010 under him. As for natural scoring forwards, I don't remember too many match winners in that forward line with the exception of Johnny Doyle or a veteran Dermot Early, and it could be argued that both men were more natural around the middle of the park. In fact they were so desperate to bolster their attack they reached out to a certain Cavan forward who felt he had more chance of success with Kildare than an emerging Cavan side, a different story now! As for Jamie Clarke, having watched the Crossmaglen documentary, it seems that even his club who encourage their players to express themselves in attack and have plenty of honours coming their way have an uphill struggle to keep him motivated to commit, so what chance do the county have? He has serious talent but rarely showed it in the championship. He'd have been an impact sub at best in an Armagh forward line 10-12 years ago that included some real big game performers. I agree with cuchulainn35 that Armagh had an exceptional era with exceptional players between 1999 and 2008. Similar to Offaly hurling in the 90's sometimes most of your county legends are made during one era. Today Armagh have nothing to choose from compared to back then. People talk about Aaron Kernon as if he's a youngster who turned his back, the man is 31 and gave over 10 years service to his county, that's a long enough stint for any player. Things haven't gone well for Geezer these last couple of years but I think its naive to blame him for all that's wrong with Armagh, I think he's proven that he is a decent manager if not quite a top manager. SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 2385 - 30/05/2016 18:30:02 1860099 Link
Replying To Dr.Watson: "Don't necessarily agree with you on your assessment of Kildare. Geezer led us to the Quarter Finals every year bar one. We got to an All-Ireland semi and desperately unlucky not to go further on a couple of occassions.... We were at our lowest ebb for a long time before he arrived. He may have stayed a year too long but overall he brought Kildare forward. Not every supporter in Kildare will agree with me but if Johnny Doyle comes out and says that Geezer was a legend and he would do anything for him - well that's good enough for me." Saying getting to the quarter finals every year bar one sounds fantastic. But when you break it down it was not so great. 2007 Named manager Oct 2007 - after Kildare lost to Louth in qulaifiers. 2008 Lost to Wicklow first round of championship!!! First time a Wicklow team ever beat Kildare in the championship. Beat Cavan, Limerick Fermanagh in qualifiers. Lost to Cork in AI Q-Final. Who of note did Kildare beat that is a better team or equal to them???!! 2009 By beaten by Tyrone in Q-Final after losing Leinster Final fair enough that was middle of the road achievement as expected no more no less 2010 Lost to Louth in the 2nd Round!!! Got a lucky handy run of qualifiers Antrim, Leitrim Monaghan, Derry. Lost to Down (a team they should be able to beat on paper). But who did Kildare beat of note that year???!! 2011 Did well this year beat Wicklow and Meath in Leinster. Beat Laois, Meath and Derry in qualifiers lost to Donegal in AI quarter final. Beating Meath twice is the highlight here and ran Donegal close in AI quarter final. 2012 Beat Offally lost to Meath. Qualifiers handy enough teams in qualifiers beat Cavan, Limerick AET, Silgo. Lost to Cork in AI Q-Final (well beaten). Who of note did Kildare beat this year???!! 2013 Beat offaly in Leinster and lost to Dublin. Qualifiers beat Louth and lost to Tryone by a point. Again who of note did Kildare beat???!!! gormdubhgorm (Dublin) - Posts: 990 - 30/05/2016 18:36:55 1860103 Link
Let's be honest most GAA players are not the brightest so they need to be told what to do. have you ever though about writing for The Newsletter in Belfast? they love a good 'bogtrotter' myth like this! SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 2385 - 30/05/2016 18:51:56 1860107 Link
He was a good footballer. Not a great footballer. Seems to be a poor manager. "Ultra-professional"? Military-style organisation and discipline and professionalism are actually miles apart. icehonesty (Wexford) - Posts: 2550 - 30/05/2016 18:52:14 1860108 Link
McGeeney got Kildare competitve . In 2011 they ran us close in Leinster final, now maybe they had better players then who knows. But they were a decent top 7 or 8 team, Since he has gone ,they have gone downhill . Yesterday i thought tactically he was very very poor. their was no imagination in anything Armagh did. Again i dont know what talent he has to work with so hard to know. But yesterday i expected more from Armagh and was very disappointed in them, players looked leggy , they were being out jumped for balls by smaller men from Cavan , it looked like fielding was not a priority in training. McGeeney always reminds me of R Keane . AthCliath (Dublin) - Posts: 4347 - 30/05/2016 20:14:14 1860126 Link
I thought McGeeney had a poor day at the office against Cavan but you won't find many Kildare supporters or players who will say they were not better under him. Armagh don't have a great pick of players at the moment, Kildare's were slightly better so he achieved slightly more. All this talk about he never beat a big team during his tenure - well who outside Kerry, Cork, Dublin, Tyrone, Mayo and Donegal beat big teams in that time. He was judged on the fact that he gave Kildare supporters hope and summers filled with championship runs, that's not a bad achievement, I know when he stood down their were a lot of Meath fans saying, get McGeeney in. But this whole furore is because Joe Brolly has created a narrative blaming Kieran McGeeney for all the ills in modern football. Brolly tells a great yarn, and if I were in trouble I'd love him defending me, but he is very selective with facts and much more intersted in a good story. The whole 'McGeeney hasn't a clue' is a disgrace, way over the top. It's up there with the 'ugly Marty Morrissey' jibe. What is really annoying is that RTE are using this quote as clickbate to drive traffic and put themselves centre of the story. That's just wrong. Kieran McGeeney was poor as a manager on Sunday but he still has some dignity. Roger (Meath) - Posts: 471 - 30/05/2016 20:28:37 1860129 Link
Replying To icehonesty: "He was a good footballer. Not a great footballer. Seems to be a poor manager. "Ultra-professional"? Military-style organisation and discipline and professionalism are actually miles apart." He was a great footballer, that isn't even up for debate! His personality and management record might be but not his talent when playing. TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 7902 - 30/05/2016 20:32:03 1860132 Link
He was extremely fit and driven as a player, a good centre back and by all accounts a very good leader. But not especially skilful, certainly not a "great". McGrane and McConville streets ahead. icehonesty (Wexford) - Posts: 2550 - 30/05/2016 21:29:21 1860149 Link
There is no doubt McGeeney demands huge committment and is one of the founders of the GPA. I just wonder is there still a little bit of friction from some quarters towards the GPA. I say this because the media constantly get personal when critcising him and others linked to this organisation. McGeeney loves Armagh and is probably happier there than anywhere else. The job he did with Kildare was above average, look at the huge following and endless big games. He had them competing, granted they never got the breakthrough but were very unlucky. I suspect McGeeney could have got many half decent county teams when he left Kildare and possibly could have kicked on as a manager. Instead in my opinion he is managing a project to make his beloved county competative again. Of course it will take time and at the minute it appears his options are limited but he improved as a player over the years and I suspect he will at some point make to the top as a manager. sam1884 (UK) - Posts: 999 - 30/05/2016 21:40:38 1860155 Link
This is nothing short of a character assassination of McGeeney by a man who appears to get some thrill out of doing so. He has previous as we all well now and whilst McGeeney has struggled to impose himself as a manager he simply does not deserve these attacks, its a disgrace but nothing surprising given the source. brendtheredhand (Tyrone) - Posts: 10897 - 30/05/2016 21:55:43 1860165 Link
Replying To icehonesty: "He was extremely fit and driven as a player, a good centre back and by all accounts a very good leader. But not especially skilful, certainly not a "great". McGrane and McConville streets ahead." A great centre back. I wouldn't fancy Oisin at number 6 would you? So I repeat, a great defender, your comparison isn't even valid. TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 7902 - 30/05/2016 21:55:47 1860166 Link
Joe's criticism yesterday, if taken by itself, was a good argument that can be applied to 20+ counties at least. However, the problem with Joe in my own view is his history of attacks on McGeeney. Kieran did a great job with Kildare and we had wonderful days out in Navan and Croke Park. While I am not sure about him tactically, how many managers out there have got to grips with the modern game? Gavin, Horan, McGuinness, Harte, Fitz and Malachy ORourke, and that's about it. The rest are struggling because the modern game is complex. Daith (Kildare) - Posts: 1171 - 31/05/2016 08:41:42 1860172 Link
McGeeney's the second best manager Kildare have had in my time following them. In 03 we were beaten in a Leinster final by Laois and then beaten by Roscommon in the qualifiers. In 04 Wexford bet us in Leinster and then Offaly knocked us out in the qualifiers. In 05 Laois hammered us in Leinster and Sligo knocked us out of the qualifiers. In 06 Offaly bet us in Leinster and Derry hammered us in the qualifiers. In 07 Meath bet us in Leinster and Louth knocked us out of the qualifiers. With the exception of Roscommon (who we were never drawn against) and Louth we bet all of those teams (some of them numerous times) under McGeeney. I'd love to know what happened between 07 and 08 that would lead people to believe that we should have been beating those teams all along. In 08 we were beaten by the Munster champions and the previous years All Ireland runners up by 3 points in a quarter final, not bad going considering we missed a peno in that match as well. In 09 Tyrone bet us by 3 points in the quarters which again wasn't bad going considering they won the All Ireland the year before. In 10 we were inches away from reaching an All Ireland final. In 11 we pushed the next 2 All Ireland winners all the way. In 12 things dipped a bit and it was the first time in 5 years that we exited the business end of the championship with more than a kick of the ball in it. In 13 we brought through almost an entire under 21 team to the senior setup, lost to Tyrone twice when it counted most; in the league semi's thanks to Stevie O'Neill producing a master class in the 2nd half and in Newbridge when down to 14 men in the qualifiers. Now along the way those years we bet the likes of Laois, Meath, Derry and Monaghan. Based on what went on the few years before that I'm not really sure how anybody would have expected us to be beating those teams anyways. With the exception of All Ireland winning managers, and James Horan and Malachy O'Rourke, there isn't a manager out there who regularly had a team competing at the business end of the championship on as regular as basis as McGeeney had Kildare. McGeeney didn't win a provincial title. No different to vast majority of the other managers out there. McGeeney didn't beat a top team. Again no different to the vast majority of managers out there. He did though make us competitive and have us within a kick of the ball of an All Ireland final and a couple more semi's. Different to what a lot of managers have done. if_in_doubt (Kildare) - Posts: 3685 - 31/05/2016 09:22:23 1860179 Link
McGeeney did nothing for Kildare football at no stage during his reign in charge did they beat a top team they got lucky with the draws they had up until a quarter final stage where they eventually lost. The teams they beat Kildare were always expected to beat and they would still be expected to beat those teams now. They never beat Dublin Cork Kerry Donegal Tyrone Mayo. He didn't win a Leinster so he was not a success. Also he never allowed lads to tog for the club and when they were allowed play with the club he would have training the night before or morning of the club game and run them not stop so they wouldn't be able to tog for their clubs. He was a fantastic player probably one of my favourites but all he has been since he stopped playing is a success at getting money for no little result. dubshurling7 (Dublin) - Posts:926 - 30/05/2016 On what basis do you think we should have been beating the likes of Laois, Meath, Monaghan, Cavan and Derry when McGeeney was in charge? And, possibly more interestingly, why would you still expect us to beat those teams - especially Monaghan? In the few years before McGeeney took over we lost to the likes of Wexford, Offaly, Sligo and Laois so how exactly do we go from that to being expected to beat teams like Derry and Monaghan with largely the same player base available? We never beat Kerry or Mayo in the championship, hard to beat teams you're never drawn against though in fairness. I suspect Brolly himself wouldn't be able to beat a team he doesn't get to play. We bet them both in the league along with Cork, Donegal and Tyrone but obviously the league doesn't matter... Are Kildare the only county where players don't play with their club every weekend? Hardly. This is nothing short of a character assassination of McGeeney by a man who appears to get some thrill out of doing so. He has previous as we all well now and whilst McGeeney has struggled to impose himself as a manager he simply does not deserve these attacks, its a disgrace but nothing surprising given the source. brendtheredhand (Tyrone) - Posts:10793 - 30/05/2016 Unfortunately there's a hint of flavour of the summer about it brend. As The_Fridge said on another thread it used to be cynical play, before that it was sledging and before that is paying managers. There's no irony at all in people mocking the cult of the manager whilst at the same time worshipping at the altar of the pundit themselves... if_in_doubt (Kildare) - Posts: 3685 - 31/05/2016 09:37:54 1860183 Link