Working class lads from say Limerick longing to play for the British Lions- not Limerick hurlers!

No they long to play for the British and Irish Lions an usually refer to them as the Lions

sure dont working class lads from say limerick long to play soccer for Man u liverpool etc -whats wrong with that

janesboro (Limerick) - Posts: 1502 - 26/05/2016 14:42:35    1858918

To Ormond, Janesboro et al Why do you think a lot of Dublin people consider rugby to have an elitist element to it then?
You lads have obviously never experienced it and do not see it where you are from but I don't think you can deny that the perception is out there about rugby only being for posh people.
Maybe it is only a perception and that perception is completely wrong but you cannot argue that the perception is there in large parts of the capital that rugby is only for the elite economic classes.
Maybe it's a kinda self fulfilling thing. Rugby is undeniably mainly played by upper classes/upper middle classes (in an Irish context) in Dublin so it makes it very hard for the sport to break out of that mould.
The same thing happened with GAA in Dublin. It took a long time for it to stop being the culchie games. It was realistically only from the 70s on that we saw Dubliners massively embracing the GAA and now it's, along with soccer, the most popular sport in the Capital by a long way.
MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts:9604 - 26/05/2016 11:39:27Lived in Dublin. Been a member of a club. Father and uncle have been committee members of a club. Brother currently playing for a Dublin city club. I honestly haven't experienced rugby being for posh people. What exactly do you define posh as anyway?

Janesboro,where i grew up in Palmerstown,west Dublin,there just was no rugby.Full stop.None of us talked about it in primary school ; it just wasn't on the menu.We were led to believe the game was the preserve of the private school goi ng posh boys of south county Dublin.Lads whos fathers were all lawyers,doctors,develepors etc.We didn't mix,associate,talk about or know anything about that part of Dublin.That's just the way it was.In saying that,i always enjoyed watching the odd four nations game that ny Dad would have on the box.That was about the height of rugby for me.
cuederocket (Dublin) - Posts:4042 - 26/05/2016 13:03:59 Wht age are you? Could you not have played for Salmo? That's the problem. You didn't experience the sport and were led to believe something. You didn't get to try it so never truly experienced the sport. More and more can and do experience rugby thesedays and perceptions which were in general quite false are being shown for what they are.

I expected a response like that because the purpose of these debates is usually not to understand the issues but to blindly defend rugby. I won't name the clubs as it would be unfair to pick the ones I know of when i believe it is common among many - in any case it's easy to find. Why would any club need to know your occupation and/or business address on your membership application unless it had some bearing on your actual application? Do you know any other sports clubs that require information like that? Is there any sport or organisation in the world you consider elitist?
Soma (UK) - Posts:1438 - 26/05/2016 13:06:47 I will defend rugby when those criticising it are so blind in their criticisms. A club may need to know a players occupation as they can show them a member who works in that trade and connect with other club members for reasons other than rugby in the club they have joined. Rugby is a very social sport and listing job/place of work shows that its more than about what occurs on the pitch.

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 26/05/2016 14:45:17    1858920

Ormond I know enough about rugby to know the IRFU do not want and need a Connaught. Makes their progress all the more worthy but they had to fight the IRFU all the way.
Connaught is not a GAA problem. Ulster have Ravenhill, Munster Thomand and Leinster their horse field. Let the IRFU go off and develop something for Connuaght if they support them so much.
Shows how under invested the IRFU are and were in Connaught that after 100+ years they never had their won field.
witnof (Dublin) - Posts:931 - 25/05/2016 14:35:49 IRFU do want and certainly need Connacht. They have had to fight the IRFU a lot but they simply haven't done things right a lot in the past. Misused resources etc.
IRFU wont go develop a new site for Connacht as Connacht would be mad to move from such a central position in the city. Connacht never were successful as theyd smallest playing numbers by far and they just were not good enough and winning 3 games like that was very tough. Just look at records of some counties in all Ireland and provincial championship and you will see same thing

Too right extrajanero.Ooogh that poxy "Leinster Leinster" chant makes me wince.I know this will sound unpatriotic of me but i have to admit i was hoping Argentina would beat Ireland in the recent rugby World Cup.I was sick to the back teeth with the wall-to-wall coverage of it ; radio,print,web and tv,i just couldn't avoid it and it was doing my cannister in bigtime.All that bravado and nonsense after the first game when they beat some hapless,nobodies(was it Ethiopia or some other lambs to the slaughter).The Leixlip ladies team would have given these chancers a game.Ridiculous,over the top hyperbole.I was the only happy man in Ireland that sunny day as the Argies sent the green hordes packing.I was released from my inner turmoil.For another four years anyway.
cuederocket (Dublin) - Posts:4042 - 25/05/2016 20:28:50 That's extremely sad and quite pathetic. So if you wince at the Leinster, leinster chant then you must be cringing at some of the chants from the hill through the summer and your admittance about cheering on argentina is pathetic. Id be roundly criticised for cheering on all our opponents in euro2016 and rightly so.

Ormond I don't see why my idea is idea is not feasible or why when the are moving grounds anyway that it would be bad for Connacht. For the future of Connacht the are going to have build a support base through the province and into next door counties, this would be a big help. Plus Salthill is unsuitable due to poor traffic, parking and geal force winds
ROS1 (Roscommon) - Posts:437 - 26/05/2016 09:40:50 1858724
your idea of games in the 5 county ground isnt feasible. How does that benefit Connacht? You don't constantly move a pro team around for their home team like that. Connacht are building a support base around the province but moving games around doesn't build the support base. You need relative consistency and sportsground is turning into a very difficult place to play and moving out doesn't help that.

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 26/05/2016 14:46:02    1858921

Janesboro it goes a bit beyond rugby playing schools with a ban on our national games. To join a number of rugby clubs in Dublin your application for membership form requires you to provide your work address and occupation - why are either of these relevant when joining a sports club? Your form must also be signed by a proposer and seconder before your application can be considered by the club executive, it's quite difficult to get people to do this unless you have some connection. Compare this to a membership application form for a typical Dublin GAA club and you start to appreciate why so many consider rugby in Dublin to be an elitist sport, regardless of much of the good work being done recently.
Soma (UK) - Posts:1438 - 26/05/2016 11:09:04 Which schools have a ban on the playing of GAA?
Rugby is a very social sport. Many clubs do ask for where you work as they use their members to help provide jobs, links for other members/potential new members. That is part of being in a club. You work together to help one another.
Having to get a proposer and seconder isn't that strange. Many clubs and organisations do that. This isn't a barrier to entry.

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 26/05/2016 14:46:46    1858924

Somas Posts in bold I expected a response like that because the purpose of these debates is usually not to understand the issues but to blindly defend rugby.
Well the purpose of some of my posts is to defend from incorrect and so far unproven allegations of elitism.

I won't name the clubs as it would be unfair to pick the ones I know of when i believe it is common among many - in any case it's easy to find. Why would any club need to know your occupation and/or business address on your membership application unless it had some bearing on your actual application?
Do these clubs
Prevent you from being a member on the basis of occupation
Does any rugby club prevent you from playing with them on such a basis.
Do any rugby club these clubs prevent you going into the bar or attending a game.

I have never been asked my occupation going into a rugby of gaa game.

Do you know any other sports clubs that require information like that?
Yes
http://ladiesgaelic.ie/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Setting-Up-a-New-Club.pdf
Ladies Gaa recommends the above on setting up a new club Draw up a club register of members and volunteers names, addresses, ages, occupations and other relevant information

If you google the following
club membership form address occupation gaa

You will find application forms for two gaa clubs on the first page which require details of the applicants profession/occupation. Please advise whether you now view these two clubs and ladies gaelic as being elitist bearing in mind your statement
Why would any club need to know your occupation and/or business address on your membership application unless it had some bearing on your actual application?
Personally i am of the view none of them are elitist.

My two favourite quizzes mastermind and Pointless alway ask one's occupation. Are they now elitist?
My kids birth certs ask for my occupation - is this elitist

janesboro (Limerick) - Posts: 1502 - 26/05/2016 15:31:03    1858959

cuederocket (Dublin) - Posts: 5084 - 26/05/2016 15:34:27    1858962

Ormond you are the one suggesting moving some connacht games to salthill, under my idea the would still play most of there games in the sportgrounds. Having the games in salthill would I believe put alot of people off going. There is a elĺlsist core in rugby not only in Dublin but also in rural towns although it is improving

ros1 (Roscommon) - Posts: 1211 - 26/05/2016 15:35:34    1858963

The irfu did everthing the could to get rid of Connacht even now when a Connacht player plays for Ireland you can set your timewatch untill he gets moved to another province. Plus the stupid decision to move the under 20s games from athlone to donnybrook.

ros1 (Roscommon) - Posts: 1211 - 26/05/2016 15:40:17    1858971

cuederocket (Dublin) - Posts: 5084 - 26/05/2016 15:52:14    1858983

janesboro (Limerick) - Posts: 1502 - 26/05/2016 15:56:29    1858984

Who the hell are Salmo?
cuederocket (Dublin) - Posts:4046 - 26/05/2016 15:34:27 De La Salle Palmerston. Salmo...

Ormond you are the one suggesting moving some connacht games to salthill, under my idea the would still play most of there games in the sportgrounds. Having the games in salthill would I believe put alot of people off going. There is a elĺlsist core in rugby not only in Dublin but also in rural towns although it is improving
ROS1 (Roscommon) - Posts:440 - 26/05/2016 15:35:34Where have I suggested Connacht move to salthill? They wont move any games out of Galway as it would be crazy to. What exactly is the elitist core in rugby? There is a very arrogant streak in many gaa clubs but strange that none speak of it here.

The irfu did everthing the could to get rid of Connacht even now when a Connacht player plays for Ireland you can set your timewatch untill he gets moved to another province. Plus the stupid decision to move the under 20s games from athlone to donnybrook.
ROS1 (Roscommon) - Posts:440 - 26/05/2016 15:40:17 Connacht were making too many mistakes, mismanagement. Of course IRFU were right to look at stopping the pro team from playing. Of the Connacht players whove moved. Which has there been an issue with? They have moved because in general Connacht haven't been good enough in helping them make the irish side. And bar Robbie all haven't been from Connacht so ties will be lessened due to that and Robbie is primarily moving due to his family...
20s shouldn't have moved from Athlone but did so due to pitch conditions and desire to play on 4G


Love Dublin Ormo and everything about it (bar rugby ha).I just dont have an affinity for Leinster rugby.
cuederocket (Dublin) - Posts:4046 - 26/05/2016 15:52:14That's fine but half your arguments are nonsense(focusing on class is ridiculous) and that goes for anyone else with similar arguments.

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 26/05/2016 16:08:48    1858986

cuederocket (Dublin) - Posts: 5084 - 26/05/2016 16:26:36    1858992

At least Ormond you admit moving the u 20s under was a bad idea which is progress for you. How is any team going to do well when there best players keep getting there best players taking, there are plenty of non Leinster players playing for Leinster. It was a irfu decision to move Robbie. Why would playing a game in roscommon or castlebar be a bad decision for Connacht. Munster play in 2 grounds for example and it would really help the promotion of Connacht rugby.

ros1 (Roscommon) - Posts: 1211 - 26/05/2016 16:31:22    1858997

ros1 (Roscommon) - Posts: 1211 - 26/05/2016 16:49:20    1859009

Jboro again you prefer to use red herrings than debate the issues. Of the 2 clubs you found on the Internet (the fact you had to search indicates how rare it is) one clearly states giving your occupation is optional and neither request your work address. Having said that both should remove this from their form in my opinion. Do you not see how the requirement to provide your occupation and work address, and to get a proposer and seconder before it goes to the executive committee would stop certain types of people from applying for membership? To fail to recognise this is to do the game a disservice. Again I ask is there any sport or organisation you believe to be elitist?

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 26/05/2016 18:00:22    1859052

Ormond,i grew up in Palmerstown as opposed to Palmerston.Only one letter in the difference but miles apart.Palmerstown is sandwiched between Ballyfermot and Neilstown in west Dublin.There is no rugby anywhere out here.Palmerston is near Rathmines and Milltown just south of the city where your entering the rugby areas of the capital.
cuederocket (Dublin) - Posts:4054 - 26/05/2016 16:26:36Isnt Clondalkin RFC not near Palmerstown. Guinness RFC I think is also nearb.

At least Ormond you admit moving the u 20s under was a bad idea which is progress for you. How is any team going to do well when there best players keep getting there best players taking, there are plenty of non Leinster players playing for Leinster. It was a irfu decision to move Robbie. Why would playing a game in roscommon or castlebar be a bad decision for Connacht. Munster play in 2 grounds for example and it would really help the promotion of Connacht rugby.
ROS1 (Roscommon) - Posts:442 - 26/05/2016 16:31:22Of those best players who moved fom Connacht nearly all were not from the province and only moved to Connacht as they weren't getting games elsewhere. Robbie is the first and only to really come through ranks in Connacht.
Playing a game in Roscommon isn't the right step. You move Connacht A/Eagles games first and see how they go. Connacht cant lose out on income which would happen with a move to a game in castlebar.
Munster play in 2 grounds but both grounds have always held Munster games. Both grounds are rugby orientated/focused grounds etc

So Ormond you are against going to salthill yet you are on here arguing in support of that decision. Do you Ormond it's right people been told that playing rugby the will be playing with a better class of people then those playing gaa all based on there father's job. Then of course theree is the bias to rugby in the media who are from the same private school background as the top rugby players. Connacht have lost the likes of McCartney and there losing Rodney ah you this summer
ROS1 (Roscommon) - Posts:442 - 26/05/2016 16:49:20 You don't have to support an idea to debate the points. When it includes peoples occupation on a form to join a club it is nothing to do with kids joining the club. Listing the occupation is about adults joining.
My own club in nenagh lost 2 players to clubs in Dublin recently because the club was able to provide the 2 players with jobs.

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 26/05/2016 18:13:43    1859059

Soma Do you not see how the requirement to provide your occupation and work address, and to get a proposer and seconder before it goes to the executive committee would stop certain types of people from applying for membership? To fail to recognise this is to do the game a disservice.

Well if it stops somebody joining a rugby club and is deemed elitist by you surely the same applies when the gaa as per their governing body
A say club membership requires a seconder and proposer,
http://learning.gaa.ie/sites/default/files/Membership%20and%20Registration.pdf
B recommend a club register is drawnup containing occupations
http://ladiesgaelic.ie/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Setting-Up-a-New-Club.pdf

Again i will ask you Do these clubs  to which you refer
Prevent you from being a member on the basis of occupation?
Does any rugby club prevent you from playing with them on such a basis?
Do any rugby club these clubs prevent you going into the bar or attending a game?

Again I ask is there any sport or organisation you believe to be elitist? If a sport prevents somebody from playing joining or contributing on the basis of so called social status then in my view it would be elitist. In my view rugby and gaa are not elitist.

janesboro (Limerick) - Posts: 1502 - 26/05/2016 18:25:39    1859065

cuederocket (Dublin) - Posts: 5084 - 26/05/2016 18:27:38    1859066

While rugby has improved there is still an elitist attitude in some people involved and it's not only in Dublin. I have seen it in a small rural town where the two head man told a solicitor friend of mine that is son would be playing with a better class of people if he left the gaa club and joined the rugby club

ROS1 (Roscommon) - Posts:442 - 26/05/2016 14:37:14 18589

What club was this - is this view representative of the entire club ,

Assuming its true I think it was a horrible thing to say, rugby people are no better or worse than gaa people or any other people for that matter

janesboro (Limerick) - Posts: 1502 - 26/05/2016 18:32:05    1859067

TheRightStuff (Donegal) - Posts: 1688 - 26/05/2016 21:09:06    1859147