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Replying To MedwayIrish: "When you say a Gaelic quarter, what do you mean by that? A Gaeltacht bang in the middle of the north inner city? You do realise it probably has one of the highest proportions of non-Irish residents anywhere in the country?" Indeed, you're more likely to get one going (more likely a breac-Ghaeltacht) somewhere like Stillorgan or Booterstown where there are some gaelscoileanna.
Gleebo (Mayo) - Posts: 2208 - 27/05/2016 15:49:37
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Replying To hurlinspuds: "Htaem, English is almost all of our mother tongue. Doesn't stop you from using irish when you can if you feel like it." Of course it doesn't, anybody can use Irish whenever they want to hurlinspuds, I think that goes without say.
Htaem (Meath) - Posts: 8657 - 27/05/2016 15:53:36
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Replying To MedwayIrish: "When you say a Gaelic quarter, what do you mean by that? A Gaeltacht bang in the middle of the north inner city? You do realise it probably has one of the highest proportions of non-Irish residents anywhere in the country?" Croke park dominates the skyline. It could be the centre of the Gaelic quarter.
galwayford (Galway) - Posts: 2520 - 27/05/2016 19:09:51
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Replying To galwayford: "Croke park dominates the skyline. It could be the centre of the Gaelic quarter." But what do you mean by a Gaelic quarter? Do you mean develop the entire area as a Gaeltacht? As Gleebo said above, a Gaeltacht is developed around schools, not around stadiums. I don't think Croke Park dominating a skyline has a bearing
Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - Posts: 1823 - 27/05/2016 19:19:42
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Replying To Htaem: "Of course it doesn't, anybody can use Irish whenever they want to hurlinspuds, I think that goes without say." Htaem I think you may give up trying to reason with him, common sense is in short demand,
Also I think someone from cork into hurling would be a hell of a lot more worried about the current state of the game in cork than hubs.
royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 27/05/2016 20:21:58
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Replying To Htaem: "The thing is though I don't consider Irish my first language, in reality English is my first language because I speak it every single day of my life and I've never spoken Irish on a daily basis nor do I have any interest in the language. Now I'm not one bit proud or ashamed of English being my first language, it's merely a matter of convenience and circumstance.
Also sadly Irish is an obligation the whole way through your primary and secondary education, which I think is a complete waste of time and resources for those who don't have an interest in the language. By all means retain it but make it optional. After you leave school you're correct, Irish is optional and it's no coincidence that after I left school my attitude towards Irish softened, I still have no interest in learning it but I don't hold the same contempt for the language.
Culture and identity are fine once they're not harmful, the Irish language certainly isn't harmful and I don't have a problem with people identifying themselves by their language. Cultures and countries identifying themselves with strong nationalism or religious belief can be and often are far worse places to live." Excellent post htaem
royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 27/05/2016 20:25:05
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Htaem
Also sadly Irish is an obligation the whole way through your primary and secondary education, which I think is a complete waste of time and resources for those who don't have an interest in the language. By all means retain it but make it optional. After you leave school you're correct, Irish is optional and it's no coincidence that after I left school my attitude towards Irish softened, I still have no interest in learning it but I don't hold the same contempt for the language.
To be fair, school is an obligation in general, I didn't have an interest in any of the subjects on offer. It doesn't necessarily mean they were all a waste of time. I definitely didn't have an interest in English literature, which I was obligated to learn through leaving certificate. I don't hold that against John Keats though.
But to be fair, I do actually think alot of damage to the status, or affection towards, the Irish language, has been done in our schools. I don't think anyone, no matter how much they love the language, could defend the way Irish has been taught in schools. It was strange, some of the most engaged and passionate teachers I had in secondary schools, were Irish teachers. But they were always the most frustrated. They expected a certain level of competence, but our primary school Irish education was so lacking, it was like we'd never learned anything by the time we got to secondary school. Learning 20 different ways to say me, you, him, her, etc, is pointless. I also have to acknowledge that people from my parents generation, those schooled in the 50' and 60's, were brutalized in school, which helped foster an antipathy toward the language.
I hope Irish is continued to be taught, but I hope how its taught is changed fundamentally..
Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - Posts: 1823 - 27/05/2016 21:44:30
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Replying To Marlon_JD: "Htaem
Also sadly Irish is an obligation the whole way through your primary and secondary education, which I think is a complete waste of time and resources for those who don't have an interest in the language. By all means retain it but make it optional. After you leave school you're correct, Irish is optional and it's no coincidence that after I left school my attitude towards Irish softened, I still have no interest in learning it but I don't hold the same contempt for the language.
To be fair, school is an obligation in general, I didn't have an interest in any of the subjects on offer. It doesn't necessarily mean they were all a waste of time. I definitely didn't have an interest in English literature, which I was obligated to learn through leaving certificate. I don't hold that against John Keats though.
But to be fair, I do actually think alot of damage to the status, or affection towards, the Irish language, has been done in our schools. I don't think anyone, no matter how much they love the language, could defend the way Irish has been taught in schools. It was strange, some of the most engaged and passionate teachers I had in secondary schools, were Irish teachers. But they were always the most frustrated. They expected a certain level of competence, but our primary school Irish education was so lacking, it was like we'd never learned anything by the time we got to secondary school. Learning 20 different ways to say me, you, him, her, etc, is pointless. I also have to acknowledge that people from my parents generation, those schooled in the 50' and 60's, were brutalized in school, which helped foster an antipathy toward the language.
I hope Irish is continued to be taught, but I hope how its taught is changed fundamentally.." Well said.
cuederocket (Dublin) - Posts: 5084 - 27/05/2016 21:58:58
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Replying To Marlon_JD: "Htaem
Also sadly Irish is an obligation the whole way through your primary and secondary education, which I think is a complete waste of time and resources for those who don't have an interest in the language. By all means retain it but make it optional. After you leave school you're correct, Irish is optional and it's no coincidence that after I left school my attitude towards Irish softened, I still have no interest in learning it but I don't hold the same contempt for the language.
To be fair, school is an obligation in general, I didn't have an interest in any of the subjects on offer. It doesn't necessarily mean they were all a waste of time. I definitely didn't have an interest in English literature, which I was obligated to learn through leaving certificate. I don't hold that against John Keats though.
But to be fair, I do actually think alot of damage to the status, or affection towards, the Irish language, has been done in our schools. I don't think anyone, no matter how much they love the language, could defend the way Irish has been taught in schools. It was strange, some of the most engaged and passionate teachers I had in secondary schools, were Irish teachers. But they were always the most frustrated. They expected a certain level of competence, but our primary school Irish education was so lacking, it was like we'd never learned anything by the time we got to secondary school. Learning 20 different ways to say me, you, him, her, etc, is pointless. I also have to acknowledge that people from my parents generation, those schooled in the 50' and 60's, were brutalized in school, which helped foster an antipathy toward the language.
I hope Irish is continued to be taught, but I hope how its taught is changed fundamentally.." Agree with all of that.
hurlinspuds (Cork) - Posts: 1494 - 28/05/2016 11:07:21
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Replying To royaldunne: "Htaem I think you may give up trying to reason with him, common sense is in short demand,
Also I think someone from cork into hurling would be a hell of a lot more worried about the current state of the game in cork than hubs." You took a break there royal. Off speaking Greek around Meath I guess. Shur every lawyer in the country is speaking it.
I've posted my thoughts on cork hurling elsewhere.
hurlinspuds (Cork) - Posts: 1494 - 28/05/2016 11:09:18
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Regarding Irish language in schools. I think it should remain compulsory. This country seem divided enough as it is- a minority government, gangland feuds, different commemorations of the past ie WW1 V 1916 rising.
Irish language is something that everyone learns and it keep us different. I think dropping Irish would result in a N.I type situation where one community likes it and the other dislikes it in other words more division! Do we want that. Our young people seem confused enough about their identity: Some seem to think they are American, some seem British, some seem French/European.
We want our youth to be "Irish"- not British/English or American or French or Leinster men Connacht etc.
galwayford (Galway) - Posts: 2520 - 28/05/2016 21:18:21
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Replying To hurlinspuds: "You took a break there royal. Off speaking Greek around Meath I guess. Shur every lawyer in the country is speaking it.
I've posted my thoughts on cork hurling elsewhere." You must know them all
GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7364 - 28/05/2016 21:59:01
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Replying To galwayford: "Regarding Irish language in schools. I think it should remain compulsory. This country seem divided enough as it is- a minority government, gangland feuds, different commemorations of the past ie WW1 V 1916 rising.
Irish language is something that everyone learns and it keep us different. I think dropping Irish would result in a N.I type situation where one community likes it and the other dislikes it in other words more division! Do we want that. Our young people seem confused enough about their identity: Some seem to think they are American, some seem British, some seem French/European.
We want our youth to be "Irish"- not British/English or American or French or Leinster men Connacht etc." No subject should be compulsory. It's only right that some college courses require a high standard in core subjects like maths for Engineering or Science but I don't think any subject should be compulsory for all.
GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7364 - 29/05/2016 11:27:21
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How could anyone who cannot speak the Irish Language call themselves IRISH??? Or are we an exception to every other Country on the Planet? Learn it and forget that language that was beaten into you by the B & Ts.
SAMMYTHEBULL (Galway) - Posts: 1646 - 29/05/2016 11:32:17
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Replying To SAMMYTHEBULL: "How could anyone who cannot speak the Irish Language call themselves IRISH??? Or are we an exception to every other Country on the Planet? Learn it and forget that language that was beaten into you by the B & Ts." Well it's simply really, if your parents make sexy time in Ireland and/or you're born in Ireland then you can call yourself Irish, in fact the rules aren't even strict, there's plenty of ways of becoming 'Irish'. However sounds you make with your mouth aren't all that relevant to be honest.
Htaem (Meath) - Posts: 8657 - 29/05/2016 12:16:02
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To be fair, school is an obligation in general, I didn't have an interest in any of the subjects on offer. It doesn't necessarily mean they were all a waste of time. I definitely didn't have an interest in English literature, which I was obligated to learn through leaving certificate. I don't hold that against John Keats though.
Indeed school is an obligation but I don't think Irish should be compulsory, certainly not by the time secondary school comes round anyway, in fact at second level I'm not sure any particular subject should be compulsory. I was good at Maths so I liked it but English was terribly monotonous, I thought it was very pretentious, full of sh**** literature I had zero interest in. I do like to read but I enjoy fact, not feckin King Lear! Although I did enjoy Juno and the Paycock I have to say.
I hope Irish is continued to be taught, but I hope how its taught is changed fundamentally..
I don't honestly care if Irish is still taught in schools or not (I have no doubt it will continue to be taught anyway), I have absolutely no emotional attachment to what is basically just a form of communication. But if people want to learn it then I think you're right, the way it's taught does need to be fundamentally changed and also it should not be compulsory, it doesn't do the language any good.
Htaem (Meath) - Posts: 8657 - 29/05/2016 12:28:42
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Replying To SAMMYTHEBULL: "How could anyone who cannot speak the Irish Language call themselves IRISH??? Or are we an exception to every other Country on the Planet? Learn it and forget that language that was beaten into you by the B & Ts." Because it's 2016. The crossroads that we were dancing at are now roundabouts. What language is it that you're posting in?
GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7364 - 29/05/2016 13:01:26
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Replying To GreenandRed: "You must know them all" I must know all of them....?
I must know every lawyer in Ireland or I must know all my thoughts on cork hurling?
Neither statement makes much sense green and red.
If you want to join royal in saying that there are loads of Irish lawyers going around speaking greek during their training then fair enough.
The sad thing is that people are arguing against opening clubs up club facilities for language meetings when I didn't think they would even need permission to use them. My clubhouse is used for lots of community activities that aren't strictly GAA related. The cost of heat and light is offset by doing the community some service. Nobody was arguing to make it compulsory to attend for any GAA member, just open to anyone interested. Royal has still argued against this. His hilarious argument about greek being used more than irish just distracted from the mean spirited attitude he has toward the language as a result of personal experience. He is prejudice against something that isn't even trying to change the things he claims to love about the GAA - purely the sport. His main argument in doing so has been to take swipes at cork hurling forbeing at a low ebb and by claiming that these voluntary events would some how turn kids off GAA. He claimed that GAA was already losing huge numbers to soccer and rugby which may eb true but gave no actual evidence of this. He kept talking about identity and not needing the language to be a true gael. Nobody but him started talking about identity and all that rubbish.
Marlon made a good post talking about education reform. That's crucial to the language in general but for voluntary classes down at the GAA club, I can't see how anyone could be against them. The interest doesn't seem to be there a lot of the time so it shouldn't even be a problem but even still royal speaks against it. I think the answer must be that some cábóg teacher tortured him with Irish verbs when he was 11 and he still has nightmares about this and so he has an ingrained prejudice against the language like so many more. That is exactly why marlon's point is so important. All in all, royal makes bold statements but he really isn't able to back up any arguments except with increasingly outlandish accusations and claims.
Royal, could you ask your daughter if there's a word in greek for "s**te talker" because I think it might be an important phrase for you to know on your holidays.
hurlinspuds (Cork) - Posts: 1494 - 29/05/2016 13:52:29
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Replying To SAMMYTHEBULL: "How could anyone who cannot speak the Irish Language call themselves IRISH??? Or are we an exception to every other Country on the Planet? Learn it and forget that language that was beaten into you by the B & Ts." Because ever since the Vikings sailed up and settled in Ireland over 1,200 years ago there have been native born Irish people not speaking as Gaeilge.
I quite like the language and think it is right to preserve it though but the fíor-Ghaeil only speaking as Gaeilge image does the language movement no favours.
MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13718 - 29/05/2016 14:41:04
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Replying To Gleebo: "Indeed, you're more likely to get one going (more likely a breac-Ghaeltacht) somewhere like Stillorgan or Booterstown where there are some gaelscoileanna." There's already been a sorta breac Ghaeltacht status afforded to Clondalkin and Ballymun as there's a lot of people with Irish in those 2 areas.
MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13718 - 29/05/2016 14:44:00
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