|
GAA was set up to promote Irish culture and identity to anyone who was interested. Irish music, language and traditions are integral to that. Nothing has changed in my view and that is the organisation that I want to be a part of. Cherishing these things do not set us up to exclude people who don't like any of them. The GAA is happy for people to participate in one aspect of the association and not another. I have no interest in gaelic football but I am still a gaa member. If the GAA were to promote language classes in their clubhouses and bars etc I would be delighted and would participate and I think it would be in line with the ethos of the organisation. I don't think it would hurt anyone. You don't have to rename places hubs to do this. In any case, we have enough problems trying to promote hurling in non-traditional strongholds so unfortunately I don't see any such initiatives starting any time soon.
hurlinspuds (Cork) - Posts: 1494 - 24/05/2016 13:39:59
1858114
Link
5
|
|
Replying To royaldunne: "Ahh no, I hated it in school and still do today, its a pointless language Imo, if its your thing fair enough, but I don't need it, I have never needed it in my work or life and have gone through life quote happily,
It doesn't make me any less Irish and I dont need it to reaffirm my irishness. . Also the gaa needs to be more inclusive not more exclusive tending to a minority, expand to entice more foreign nationals and different religions and those from LGBT groups. Not narrowing the appeal." How can a language be "pointless"? Is it pointless because you can't get a job out of it? Is that the sum measure of what a language means to you? If we all lost our hiberno-english and spoke english like robots with no accent, wouldn't you feel like you were losing part of your identity?
While you feel you can enjoy your Irish identity without it, others feel they need it to enjoy theirs.
Do you think LGBT groups are in some way excluded by the GAA? I know plenty of gay people that play gaelic games and they never mentioned this to me. In fact I have never heard it about any sport in Ireland... quite the opposite actually.
Certainly the GAA needs to continue its drive to welcome foreign nationals to Ireland by introducing them to gaelic games and helping them to settle into our communities.
As for religion, do you mean unionists here? In which case it's not about religion. I think the foreign nationals point covers this. It's not like the Gaa are welcoming hindus to play and excluding muslims. Religion has no place in deciding things for the GAA.
hurlinspuds (Cork) - Posts: 1494 - 24/05/2016 13:49:36
1858124
Link
1
|
|
Replying To hurlinspuds: "How can a language be "pointless"? Is it pointless because you can't get a job out of it? Is that the sum measure of what a language means to you? If we all lost our hiberno-english and spoke english like robots with no accent, wouldn't you feel like you were losing part of your identity?
While you feel you can enjoy your Irish identity without it, others feel they need it to enjoy theirs.
Do you think LGBT groups are in some way excluded by the GAA? I know plenty of gay people that play gaelic games and they never mentioned this to me. In fact I have never heard it about any sport in Ireland... quite the opposite actually.
Certainly the GAA needs to continue its drive to welcome foreign nationals to Ireland by introducing them to gaelic games and helping them to settle into our communities.
As for religion, do you mean unionists here? In which case it's not about religion. I think the foreign nationals point covers this. It's not like the Gaa are welcoming hindus to play and excluding muslims. Religion has no place in deciding things for the GAA." Firstly I despise the language, I voted for Enda kennys party 5 years ago on a promise to do away with it as compulsory for leaving cert (extremely annoyed he went back on this) .
It is totally pointless, since I have left school I have become somewhat fluent in French and I have needed this in my life, I have never needed the pointless language of Irish, my adult girls speak fluent German and French and some Spanish and Italian, this is of huge benefits to them, but the cupla focal? Not one bit.
I don't go to watch Meath play because of needing some reassuring about what my passport says, I know I'm Irish, I go to enjoy a sport, what it was set up for is totally irrelevant in this day and age, and if that is the reason your in it then you need to recheck your opinions on life. I dont go to a F1 rqce to praise Italian history, I dont go to a soccer match to praise the Anglo tradition, I dont go to rugby to hail webb Ellis. And I certainly dont go to Cheltenham or punchestown to hail all the kings , as it is sport of royalty. I go cause I enjoy the sport. I dont like the Irish language, apart from Riverdance (done originally by two yanks) I dont like Irish dancing, and if someone picks up a according I'm likely to punch a hole in it, or insert a tin whistle in the other end.
I watch Meath because I enjoy football, not to make myself feel more Irish, I dont need it.
And as for religion , catholic church should have nothing to do with sport. Btw if you think the gaa is all open to LGBT community your sadly mistaken, one openly gay inter county player to actually come out, add that to the disgusting way David Gough was treated for ASKING to wear a wristband during a game he was to ref.
royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 24/05/2016 15:20:50
1858159
Link
0
|
|
Interesting points RoyalDunne and I can see where you're coming from although I would just say that, to me, "despise" is a bit strong. Then again, I hate chemistry and physics probably for the same reason you hate the Irish language - stuff I was forced to do at school, taught in a very dull, one-dimensional way.
Must admit I wouldn't mind being able to speak a bit of conversational Irish. In a sense it could be useful outside the country. Wherever you go in the world there will always be English speakers, but not too many Irish speakers!
MedwayIrish (Wexford) - Posts: 2324 - 24/05/2016 15:49:36
1858174
Link
0
|
|
That was a long post that succeeded in ignoring any question I asked.
I genuinely don't care whether you hate the language or not.... although I am surprised that you voted for a political party based purely upon their promise to, as you obviously perceive it, demote the language in some way. By the way, I don't think that was actually part of the FG manifesto in the end so you wasted your vote and you're angry over nothing. They were talkign about it around 2010 but I don't think they followed through.
My question stands, how do you measure a language? Is it purely in economic terms? If so then fair enough. I learn foreign languages for work but also to experience a culture in a way I wouldn't otherwise be able. I feel the same way about Gaeilge. I have no problem with you despising the langauge, I don't like that you think we should all follow suit.
I also don't play and watch hurling because I need reassurance. I do it for the sport. Not sure what point you're trying to make with that tangent about formula 1.
If you're basing your LGBT remarks purely on David Gough then I would suggest you take a bigger sample and actually ask some members of the gay community whether the GAA has pushed them away or whether they have been made to feel unwelcome there. I would be confident that they would shrug and say no to it. As they would about rugby, soccer etc. If there was a suggestion to fly the pride flag from time to time or something then I'm well up for it. If that's your particular passion in making the GAA more welcomign then you should pursue it.
Name one GAA player to come out? Ok, Dónal Óg. He is an absolute gentleman and a role model to irish kids. I would say the lack of players coming out probably says more about irish society as a whole than it does about the GAA.
We're agreed on religion.
The GAA describes it itself like this: "The Association also promotes Irish music, song and dance and the Irish language as an integral part of its objectives." I'm happy with that.
I think your hatred for Irish (and seemingly a hatred for people who like it and want to promote it) is pretty weird to be honest and I think it might be somethign to do with your personal experience of the language rather than a well thought out proposal for the GAA. Welcoming minority groups and embracing Irish culture are not mutually exclusive, our association welcomes everyone to participate in whatever way they feel comfortable.
hurlinspuds (Cork) - Posts: 1494 - 24/05/2016 16:18:42
1858189
Link
2
|
|
hurlinspuds (Cork)
Welcoming minority groups and embracing Irish culture are not mutually exclusive, our association welcomes everyone to participate in whatever way they feel comfortable.
Exactly, I'm not sure how ignoring the Irish language would make the GAA more welcoming to people from the LGBT community, or people from different religious backgrounds. But what can make the GAA a closed shop to such groups, are the ties with the catholic church. It's certainly become a less important relationship to the GAA in recent times, but its still there. A relationship that is difficult to break, given the GAA organizes on a per parish basis. But it would be healthy to move on from it, and I think that's happening.
As to the original post, I'm not sure what a re-brand would accomplish. What would be different about match day if Semple Stadium became Semple, Gaelic hub? I have no problem with Irish being used in the grounds, I welcome it, its not an imposition. A language being spoken in the country that its indigenous to isn't unusual to me. But I'm not sure if you'd want to overshadow the games by making each match a general Gaelic cultural event, with all aspects of Irish culture being spun through. Most people are just there to watch a game, they probably don't want to sit through a Ceili. Not that there's anything wrong with a Ceili, if that's what you wanted to go to.
Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - Posts: 1823 - 24/05/2016 20:54:05
1858296
Link
2
|
|
Replying To royaldunne: "Firstly I despise the language, I voted for Enda kennys party 5 years ago on a promise to do away with it as compulsory for leaving cert (extremely annoyed he went back on this) .
It is totally pointless, since I have left school I have become somewhat fluent in French and I have needed this in my life, I have never needed the pointless language of Irish, my adult girls speak fluent German and French and some Spanish and Italian, this is of huge benefits to them, but the cupla focal? Not one bit.
I don't go to watch Meath play because of needing some reassuring about what my passport says, I know I'm Irish, I go to enjoy a sport, what it was set up for is totally irrelevant in this day and age, and if that is the reason your in it then you need to recheck your opinions on life. I dont go to a F1 rqce to praise Italian history, I dont go to a soccer match to praise the Anglo tradition, I dont go to rugby to hail webb Ellis. And I certainly dont go to Cheltenham or punchestown to hail all the kings , as it is sport of royalty. I go cause I enjoy the sport. I dont like the Irish language, apart from Riverdance (done originally by two yanks) I dont like Irish dancing, and if someone picks up a according I'm likely to punch a hole in it, or insert a tin whistle in the other end.
I watch Meath because I enjoy football, not to make myself feel more Irish, I dont need it.
And as for religion , catholic church should have nothing to do with sport. Btw if you think the gaa is all open to LGBT community your sadly mistaken, one openly gay inter county player to actually come out, add that to the disgusting way David Gough was treated for ASKING to wear a wristband during a game he was to ref." RoyalDunne there is a small Gaeltacht in Meath called the Athboy/Rathcairn Gaeltacht. It is the only one in Meath, Co na Mí. Visit there sometime and open your mind. We have an expression there is nobody as illiberal as an Irish middle class one. You sound like that.
Hate Irish language, Hate Irish dancing blah blah blah. I don't feel the need to speak French, nobody I know speaks it daily, but it does not lessen the beauty of that language.
galwayford (Galway) - Posts: 2520 - 24/05/2016 21:38:12
1858315
Link
0
|
|
Replying To royaldunne: "Ahh no, I hated it in school and still do today, its a pointless language Imo, if its your thing fair enough, but I don't need it, I have never needed it in my work or life and have gone through life quote happily,
It doesn't make me any less Irish and I dont need it to reaffirm my irishness. . Also the gaa needs to be more inclusive not more exclusive tending to a minority, expand to entice more foreign nationals and different religions and those from LGBT groups. Not narrowing the appeal." Yes i would have to agree with you regards the Irish language.Dont like it myself.Haven't used it since left school.Didn't like it in school.I dont like Irish dancing either.Or Riverdance.
cuederocket (Dublin) - Posts: 5084 - 24/05/2016 21:51:19
1858318
Link
1
|
|
Replying To Marlon_JD: "hurlinspuds (Cork)
Welcoming minority groups and embracing Irish culture are not mutually exclusive, our association welcomes everyone to participate in whatever way they feel comfortable.
Exactly, I'm not sure how ignoring the Irish language would make the GAA more welcoming to people from the LGBT community, or people from different religious backgrounds. But what can make the GAA a closed shop to such groups, are the ties with the catholic church. It's certainly become a less important relationship to the GAA in recent times, but its still there. A relationship that is difficult to break, given the GAA organizes on a per parish basis. But it would be healthy to move on from it, and I think that's happening.
As to the original post, I'm not sure what a re-brand would accomplish. What would be different about match day if Semple Stadium became Semple, Gaelic hub? I have no problem with Irish being used in the grounds, I welcome it, its not an imposition. A language being spoken in the country that its indigenous to isn't unusual to me. But I'm not sure if you'd want to overshadow the games by making each match a general Gaelic cultural event, with all aspects of Irish culture being spun through. Most people are just there to watch a game, they probably don't want to sit through a Ceili. Not that there's anything wrong with a Ceili, if that's what you wanted to go to." Very good post.
It would be quite simple to break the ties with the church but it is unlikely to happen. It is a not a big enough issue and the GAA are just happy to have them there silently as a patron. I believe that sport and religion should be completely separate.
bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3917 - 24/05/2016 21:59:40
1858322
Link
0
|
|
Replying To galwayford: "Nah mate, GAA means Gaelic Athletic Association. Not Saxon/French/American one. GAA needs the Irish language and Irish dancers. What other sports support our culture and music? Answer none really. All are "imports" from another culture.
Tír gan teanga tír gan anama." I've always found that statement "...tír gan anama" to be somewhat condescending, as if speaking a different language makes you inferior or less of a person.
Nor do I see why any sport, GAA or other, should worry about promoting any music or dance. No other sports promote music, dance or language, as you rightly point out, so why should the GAA? Is it not, after all, an athletics club first and foremost?
extranjero (Wexford) - Posts: 375 - 25/05/2016 09:03:03
1858329
Link
0
|
|
The scor competitions have been part of the association for a long time, so the GAA isn't simply a sports organisation.
Although I've zero interest in these myself they are still part of the association.
As for other aspects of the culture I think there are more important things the GAA should be focusing on.
Masters football is not recognised by the GAA for insurance reasons.
I also don't see why in promoting Irish culture you'd want to use the word hub, to me that is an American business word. Surely just use the Irish name for the grounds is the best thing to do. The GAA use Irish alongside English officially as it is.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4241 - 25/05/2016 09:36:58
1858341
Link
1
|
|
Seems like some people here have never read the GAA Official Guide ;)
The GAA is far more than a sporting association but also a political and cultural one, embracing not just those in Ireland but emigrant communities, and, increasingly those of a non-Irish background. I don't see why promotion of traditional Irish culture such as the language and Irish music/dance/history should be sacrificed on the grounds of political correctness or because some people didn't like the language in school. Those who want to partake of these things do and others just concentrate on their code (or codes) of choice; everyone's a winner.
Gleebo (Mayo) - Posts: 2208 - 25/05/2016 16:07:11
1858570
Link
4
|
|
Would be nice too if they stopped this training on Sunday mornings and let the young fellas attend their religious duties.
worple (Roscommon) - Posts: 340 - 25/05/2016 19:10:22
1858618
Link
0
|
|
That was a joke right worple?
blackspot91 (Limerick) - Posts: 1055 - 25/05/2016 19:20:36
1858621
Link
0
|
|
Replying To blackspot91: "That was a joke right worple?" Wrong.
worple (Roscommon) - Posts: 340 - 25/05/2016 20:36:11
1858645
Link
0
|
|
One very simple step that could be undertaken (and that should not offend anyone too much) would be printing players' and clubs' names as Gaeilge on official match programmes. Most of our surnames and placenames are meaningless in English anyway, just phonetic gobbledygook taken down from Irish.
I've always thought this would be a good way to engage people with the language- anyone can go and reseach what their surname means, and what their locality's name means as well. If you ever get to a more advanced level the thorny Tuiseal Ginideach can be manouevred on many occasions by reference to a place- a great example is how everyone knows the genetic plural of 'woman' in Irish...at least if you're from the Premier county you must!
an tseabhac (Kerry) - Posts: 441 - 25/05/2016 20:52:24
1858648
Link
2
|
|
Replying To worple: "Would be nice too if they stopped this training on Sunday mornings and let the young fellas attend their religious duties." Religious duties? I wasn't aware anyone was duty bound to follow a religion. Freedom of choice and all that.
MedwayIrish (Wexford) - Posts: 2324 - 25/05/2016 21:16:53
1858664
Link
0
|
|
Replying To worple: "Would be nice too if they stopped this training on Sunday mornings and let the young fellas attend their religious duties." Young fella's don't have, or need, a duty to religion, so I think we're ok on that score. Is léir go maith.
Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - Posts: 1823 - 25/05/2016 21:39:53
1858688
Link
0
|
|
First off, Irish is not of economic value to any great extent, and yes the leaving cert is designed to enhance your career opportunities.
Again I will say. I do not attend a GAA game for any other reason than to watch a football match, I am quite secure in my national identity without needing it to be reaffirmed by having a set dance in the middle of a game or for Irish only to be spoken. I dont care, and while I have no desire to stop those people who are insecure about their national identity been involved in the GAA please dont try to impose your views on me or the vast majority of people who really couldn't give a rats ass about it. Furthermore I think as a athletic association what would be more beneficial to not only the GAA as a whole but the country would be for the marketing to be more aggressive at getting kids involved more in taking part, rather than sitting at home on a playstation or whatever, but sure no what every young fella wants is to go to learn more Irish and listen to a ceilli. Jesus wept.
Is it any wonder why we are hemorrhaging talent to soccer and rugby??
royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 25/05/2016 21:48:50
1858696
Link
1
|
|
Replying To royaldunne: "First off, Irish is not of economic value to any great extent, and yes the leaving cert is designed to enhance your career opportunities.
Again I will say. I do not attend a GAA game for any other reason than to watch a football match, I am quite secure in my national identity without needing it to be reaffirmed by having a set dance in the middle of a game or for Irish only to be spoken. I dont care, and while I have no desire to stop those people who are insecure about their national identity been involved in the GAA please dont try to impose your views on me or the vast majority of people who really couldn't give a rats ass about it. Furthermore I think as a athletic association what would be more beneficial to not only the GAA as a whole but the country would be for the marketing to be more aggressive at getting kids involved more in taking part, rather than sitting at home on a playstation or whatever, but sure no what every young fella wants is to go to learn more Irish and listen to a ceilli. Jesus wept.
Is it any wonder why we are hemorrhaging talent to soccer and rugby??" Who said anything about the leaving cert? You realise you can learn languages for life royaldunne? Doing so is not just about money. Pretty sad outlook on life if you think it's just about making cash.
Who is forcing Irish on you?? The suggestion is for Irish classes to be held and other cultural pursuits on GAA premises for those who are interested. You won't have to come. To be honest, judging from your negative attitude I'd say you're safe enough from invites to any cultural events. Who wants to go to the national art gallery??! It's not going to make you do well in the leaving and make you wealthier so no way for royaldunne. He is busy at home perfecting his french so that he can make some cash from importing croissants.
I've been to maybe two or three games where there was set dancing at half time. I'm no fan of it but to be honest it didn't bother me either way. I've also heard Irish spoken at GAA grounds. That made me happy. The only person who keeps talking about their national identity and passports etc is you. You're obviously pretty insecure about it. Everyone else is saying come speak irish if you feel like it, if not then fair enough. Your anger seems to be based on other people not feeling the same way as you about the language. In other words you are intolerant of other people's interests and opinions. I'll say it again: I have no problem with you despising the language, I don't like that you think we should all follow suit.
"I think as a athletic association what would be more beneficial to not only the GAA as a whole but the country would be for the marketing to be more aggressive at getting kids involved more in taking part, rather than sitting at home on a playstation or whatever, but sure no what every young fella wants is to go to learn more Irish and listen to a ceilli." This makes no sense. Nobody is suggesting forcing kids to attend music or language classes. Everything in the association is voluntary.
Are we losing such numbers to soccer and rugby? Do you have figures to back that up or is it more back of an envelope type half ar**d generalisations?
hurlinspuds (Cork) - Posts: 1494 - 26/05/2016 10:27:41
1858749
Link
1
|