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Replying To essmac: "When any other county defends in numbers and attacks in numbers, it's "players going man-to-man, there's players going zonal, it's a combination of both". See:http://www.the42.ie/jim-gavin-dublin-blanket-defence-2063366-Apr2015/ And this is fair enough. In another code, it was good enough for Ajax. But when Tyrone defends in numbers and attacks in numbers, it's an opportunity for torrents of sanctimonious, hypocritical guff. Occasionally, the bitterness and the sledging is close to comical - here we have some legend from, er, Carlow lecturing us on how to play football: http://www.balls.ie/gaa/blanket-defence-in-gaelic-football/90228At least though, he's open about his bigotry: "Let me start off by saying I don't like Ulster football, and I never have. When I was younger it was because 'they' were 'up there'- counties and places that I knew very little about." We'd never have guessed!"
as a cavan man I took umbridge at this particular paragraph
"Cavan, some people's surprise package of the 2013 championship, will contest an All Ireland quarter final next weekend having served up some of the worst football seen in many a year, and not having played a team from outside Ulster, bar London. They had two horrible games for any neutral to watch, against a Fermanagh team devoid of anything resembling attacking proficiency and a round three qualifier against Derry.2
Now, I was at those games and The Derry game in particular was a fantastic game and anyone who was at it will agree. it was a glorious sunny day and was played in great spirit with two teams getting some fantastic scores. It went to extra-time and ended up something like 1:22 to 19 points . Now if you are going to write an article that aims to promote a viewpoint then you better be able to back it up with examples and get your facts right. He seems to have drawn a conclusion and then invented "facts" to fit in with it.
There is no such thing as "ulster" football. There is Donegal football, Monaghan Football, tyrone Football, derry football,Armagh football,Down football, Fermanagh Football, Cavan Football and Antrim Football. They are not all the same, just as Leinster football is not all the same , or "connacht" football or "munster football". It is a myth.
s goldrick (Cavan) - Posts: 5518 - 23/05/2016 11:30:21
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Correct sgoldrick - I would go so far as to say that the Derry Cavan game being referenced was the best game of the 2013 championship. It was enthralling. They must play incredible stuff down about Carlow if he considered that match terrible!
Also agree with you re: the lazy labeling of all football north of Meath as "Ulster" football. I had to laugh at some of the infantile comments on the Hoganstand's Facebook page over the weekend. Jim McGuinness had offered an opinion on how he thought that Dublin could be beaten. You'd think McGuinness tactics sessions must have consisted of drawing a line on a tactics board, and instructed his starting 15 to stay behind the line in order to win games. It was that easy! "Sure anyone can do that, play 15 men behind the ball etc etc etc yawn yawn yawn"
These people should really be redirected to a children's GAA forum where their footballing tactical IQ could be better catered for.
Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9154 - 23/05/2016 11:46:09
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Super performance from Tyrone and I think we can win the All Ireland this year provided that we fix the free taking issue. Also kickouts yesterday weren't great but there is Morgan to come back.
Good thing match wasn't close as neither the Umpires nor the Scoreboard seemed to be fully operational.
tyroneed (Tyrone) - Posts: 753 - 23/05/2016 13:10:15
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Replying To clondalkindub: "Listen I don't want to be negative I'm sick of being negative about the games I love but there has to be a rule brought in were you can't have all 15 of your players in their own half there's no skill or art having 15 players defending in their own half. Anyway Well done Tyrone great forward play today hard luck Derry." Clondalkin that would apply to Dublin and Kerry and all other teams too. Dublin do it when it suits them and so does Kerry. Ye didn't need an Ulster derby to highlight this aspect of the modern game.
seanie_boy (Tyrone) - Posts: 4235 - 23/05/2016 15:14:38
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A big problem in this debate is that people don't distinguish between use legal tactics and illegal actions. Tyrone can be legitimately accused of employing a lot of unsavoury stuff- sledging, diving, time-wasting, gouging, intimidation of officials encroachment on the pitch etc. But those are disciplinary issues. The proper response, and much needed, is good refereeing and trained umpires that are mandated to call these things.
The tactics question should be kept totally separate. Anyone who actually watches their game can Tyrone's methods have evolved from 'everyone back' to a seriously intense game based on pressing the weakest ball carrier (who is identified and targeted beforehand). An interesting feature is how many times they strip the ball from the man in possession by targeting the carrying arm when he's held up. The turnovers happen 40-50 metres from their own goal and then its all out attack.
They bagged 3-14 yesterday yet people complain about negativity! They hit exactly the same score (3-12 of which was from play) in the rain against a heavily-favoured Dublin in 2008 and Joanne Cantwell's first post match question was about 'blanket defence' - lazy journalism then and 8 years later it is still being bleated by some sheep on here.
Kerry innovated a few years back by going with big men on the inside line- they combined it with illegal tactics like throwing the ball in layoffs, early pushes on defenders, diving etc. and terrorized defences as a result. Nobody complained until Tyrone innovated by bring swarming and pace further out the field to cancel the effect. We are living with the fallout from one man's inability to take his beating for the last 13 years.
MadgeKing (Cavan) - Posts: 493 - 23/05/2016 16:02:33
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Tyrone looked very impressive yesterday & it looks like we are going to have a great Ulster championship this year with three or four teams in real contention.
MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5028 - 23/05/2016 16:08:06
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Tyrone were nothing more than efficent yesterday the current group of players are maturing into a solid well drilled squad. Only time and more robust challengers will let us know how high they can fly.
Derry unfortunately looked like a bunch of lads that brought pen-knives to a sword fight, they thought they knew what they were there for but it wasn't long before they realised that they just didn't have the right tools for the job.
downredhand (Tyrone) - Posts:248 - 23/05/2016 11:26:11
Goal's is what really made the difference, despite some of the piss poor analysis here.
The Derry full back (I don't want to single him out, as management make the match up's) was clearly the wrong guy to be marking Ronan O'Neill, and that was obvious from the first goal. I assumed Damien Coleman would change that match up, as Derry were playing well for the first 20 minutes and took the lead 0-06 to 1-02 around the 19th minute.
In truth the 2nd goal was a massive psychological blow, as we had worked hard to take the lead initially and it was like starting all over again when that 2nd goal went in. Tyrone weren't playing well up until this stage, and those long ball's to Ronan O'Neill were a life saver for the Red Hands.
So after the 2nd goal, two things happened in the game. 1. Tyrone's confidence rapidly increased, and 2. Derry's confidence totally deflated.
A slow review of the game will show our scores seriously drying up at this stage, with Tyrone then tagging over a number of points and a 3rd goal without response.
Tyrone were grand once the goal's gave them daylight, but up until that moment they struggled. Had they been playing a tougher more experienced team yesterday, those goal's might not have went in and they could very well have ended up in the qualifiers. I'm not being bitter here, I am simply warning that despite that mass praise from the media and some posters here, I would not get too carried away just yet. Tyrone have quality, but it took them a long time to come to life yesterday and against tougher opposition they might be still in the game at that stage.
GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 23/05/2016 16:31:31
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Essmac, why are you so sensitive about the way you defend (blanket, all-out defence or whatever label people give it). Your team, indeed your whole panel, are excellent at it and could indeed win the All-Ireland this year. So long as my team kept winning it wouldn't concern me what label others, pundits, media or posters, put on them. In response to a Jim McGuinness quote by other posters, I never came across blankets that were 'shapeless and formless', not even in Glenties.
neverright (Roscommon) - Posts: 1648 - 23/05/2016 16:35:56
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I usually agree with you Gary but I think Derry were very much second best yesterday goals or no goals. There didn't seem to be any attacking plan as such, other than to pass laterally hoping that an opening would present itself. There was no incisiveness about them at all. Other than a couple of nice long range points they never looked threatening. I always felt Tyrone had a gear or two to move up into.
Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9154 - 23/05/2016 16:49:52
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Replying To GaryMc82: "Tyrone were nothing more than efficent yesterday the current group of players are maturing into a solid well drilled squad. Only time and more robust challengers will let us know how high they can fly.
Derry unfortunately looked like a bunch of lads that brought pen-knives to a sword fight, they thought they knew what they were there for but it wasn't long before they realised that they just didn't have the right tools for the job.
downredhand (Tyrone) - Posts:248 - 23/05/2016 11:26:11
Goal's is what really made the difference, despite some of the piss poor analysis here.
The Derry full back (I don't want to single him out, as management make the match up's) was clearly the wrong guy to be marking Ronan O'Neill, and that was obvious from the first goal. I assumed Damien Coleman would change that match up, as Derry were playing well for the first 20 minutes and took the lead 0-06 to 1-02 around the 19th minute.
In truth the 2nd goal was a massive psychological blow, as we had worked hard to take the lead initially and it was like starting all over again when that 2nd goal went in. Tyrone weren't playing well up until this stage, and those long ball's to Ronan O'Neill were a life saver for the Red Hands.
So after the 2nd goal, two things happened in the game. 1. Tyrone's confidence rapidly increased, and 2. Derry's confidence totally deflated.
A slow review of the game will show our scores seriously drying up at this stage, with Tyrone then tagging over a number of points and a 3rd goal without response.
Tyrone were grand once the goal's gave them daylight, but up until that moment they struggled. Had they been playing a tougher more experienced team yesterday, those goal's might not have went in and they could very well have ended up in the qualifiers. I'm not being bitter here, I am simply warning that despite that mass praise from the media and some posters here, I would not get too carried away just yet. Tyrone have quality, but it took them a long time to come to life yesterday and against tougher opposition they might be still in the game at that stage." Sorry Gary, but you're as lost as the Derry backs as regards what was happening in the first half. Tyrone were never trailing 1-2 to 0-6 - they actually led 1-3 to 0-3 at a stage.
And as for us being slow to get going, well, in my book, any side that has the opposition crushed after 30 minutes can't have started that slowly!
I'd summarise it as thus: Derry were rubbish - poorly prepared, and physically and mentally weak. Tyrone were fast, strong and ruthless. We played for a half, and then shut down, saving efforts for the undoubted challenges that lie ahead. Job done.
Thomas Clarke (Tyrone) - Posts: 1002 - 23/05/2016 16:58:07
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Derry looked clueless in attack and defence yesterday. I got the feeling that they had been building to a big ambush for Tyrone yesterday but it never materialised. Either they just didn't perform and it was a seriously off day, or they are tactically and physically not at the level where they can really compete in Ulster. The latter seems to be the case to me. The gaps in their defence at times were huge yesterday, they were wide open. Their main defensive tactic seemed to be fouling the Tyrone half back line around the middle as they drove forward. Up front Derry just did not have a plan A or B. It's like they didn't expect Tyrone's defence to be so stifling or Tyrone were that intense that they simply couldn't respond to it.
Tyrone looked very classy yesterday. To stuff Derry like that in Celtic Park is a big statement. Their pace breaking from the back and their defensive screen as others have said also, were their standout strengths. There is also a lot of confidence in their players and they will really feed off the result and performance yesterday.
I don't know at this stage that Donegal or Monaghan (should they meet Tyrone inn Ulster) can live with Tyrone. Tyrone looked to me yesterday like Donegal of 2012 and that's the best compliment I can give them; hungry and focused. Physically in great shape. Tactically clued in.
Donegal_abroad (Donegal) - Posts: 1321 - 23/05/2016 17:27:13
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Replying To Lockjaw: "I usually agree with you Gary but I think Derry were very much second best yesterday goals or no goals. There didn't seem to be any attacking plan as such, other than to pass laterally hoping that an opening would present itself. There was no incisiveness about them at all. Other than a couple of nice long range points they never looked threatening. I always felt Tyrone had a gear or two to move up into." I disagree, Generally when any team gets a few goal's, they tend to kick on and win comfortably with often with the game over as a contest long before the final whistle. With 20 minutes on the clock yesterday, Derry took the lead 0-06 to 1-02. Now while it was far from a vintage display, realistically we are starting from a much lower place than Tyrone and we were always going to be up against it.
But my point above regarding the score is showing that Tyrone were not great in that opening 20 minutes, and they were poor in attack apart from that first goal. For all their credentials and plaudits, they only registered 2 points in the opening 20 minutes and only came to life after the 2nd goal.
After the 2nd goal, Derry heads dropped, Tyrone tagged a few more points and then a killer 3rd goal. So the entire 2nd half was a dead rubber match, as both teams knew the game was over. So from an analytical point of view, we were still very much in the game after conceding that first goal, but the 2nd goal was the turning point for Tyrone. The goal's were massive for Tyrone and gave them a much needed lift, had we not conceded those goal's, It would clearly have been a very different encounter considering the how few points Tyrone had on the 20 minute mark.
You might disagree, but if you can bring yourself to re-watch the game and analyse it carefully, you will see that I'm highlight the real changing point of the game. We were well beaten in the end, but I'm not so sure that would have been the case had we not conceded those goal's. Terrible defensive match-up
GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 23/05/2016 17:37:06
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Replying To GaryMc82: "I disagree, Generally when any team gets a few goal's, they tend to kick on and win comfortably with often with the game over as a contest long before the final whistle. With 20 minutes on the clock yesterday, Derry took the lead 0-06 to 1-02. Now while it was far from a vintage display, realistically we are starting from a much lower place than Tyrone and we were always going to be up against it.
But my point above regarding the score is showing that Tyrone were not great in that opening 20 minutes, and they were poor in attack apart from that first goal. For all their credentials and plaudits, they only registered 2 points in the opening 20 minutes and only came to life after the 2nd goal.
After the 2nd goal, Derry heads dropped, Tyrone tagged a few more points and then a killer 3rd goal. So the entire 2nd half was a dead rubber match, as both teams knew the game was over. So from an analytical point of view, we were still very much in the game after conceding that first goal, but the 2nd goal was the turning point for Tyrone. The goal's were massive for Tyrone and gave them a much needed lift, had we not conceded those goal's, It would clearly have been a very different encounter considering the how few points Tyrone had on the 20 minute mark.
You might disagree, but if you can bring yourself to re-watch the game and analyse it carefully, you will see that I'm highlight the real changing point of the game. We were well beaten in the end, but I'm not so sure that would have been the case had we not conceded those goal's. Terrible defensive match-up" I wouldn't read a whole lot into Derry holding Tyrone at bay for 20 minutes.
It takes a good team to blow a team away in a short period of time. Tyrone did this and it shows their class that they were able to step up their performance levels.
In 2014 Antrim were level with Donegal at half time in an Ulster semi. We got blown away in the 3rd quarter and Donegal went on to the All Ireland final beating Dublin along the way.
This Tyrone team is lacking a bit of experience compared to the other top teams but I can see them being there towards the business end of the season.
Winning Ulster and avoiding Kerry or Dublin would give them a serious chance of reaching the final.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4236 - 23/05/2016 18:28:27
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Replying To GaryMc82: "I disagree, Generally when any team gets a few goal's, they tend to kick on and win comfortably with often with the game over as a contest long before the final whistle. With 20 minutes on the clock yesterday, Derry took the lead 0-06 to 1-02. Now while it was far from a vintage display, realistically we are starting from a much lower place than Tyrone and we were always going to be up against it.
But my point above regarding the score is showing that Tyrone were not great in that opening 20 minutes, and they were poor in attack apart from that first goal. For all their credentials and plaudits, they only registered 2 points in the opening 20 minutes and only came to life after the 2nd goal.
After the 2nd goal, Derry heads dropped, Tyrone tagged a few more points and then a killer 3rd goal. So the entire 2nd half was a dead rubber match, as both teams knew the game was over. So from an analytical point of view, we were still very much in the game after conceding that first goal, but the 2nd goal was the turning point for Tyrone. The goal's were massive for Tyrone and gave them a much needed lift, had we not conceded those goal's, It would clearly have been a very different encounter considering the how few points Tyrone had on the 20 minute mark.
You might disagree, but if you can bring yourself to re-watch the game and analyse it carefully, you will see that I'm highlight the real changing point of the game. We were well beaten in the end, but I'm not so sure that would have been the case had we not conceded those goal's. Terrible defensive match-up" Just home from work and decided to watch the match again to see what you were talking about.
I think you need to watch it again yourself.
Apart from the first point in the first couple of minutes Derry did not take the lead again in the entire match.
Did you just decide to make that part up?
Wally (Tyrone) - Posts: 913 - 23/05/2016 18:38:47
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Its very early days yet and the strength of Derry's challenge must be kept in mind but I was very impressed by Tyrone's pace, skill levels, fluidity and overall discipline.
Amusing to hear Michael Lyster's end of match verdict of 'that was BRUTAL lads' ... no such summary after an equally one sided hurling match in Thurles with almost identical scoring and winning margin .. have never heard that term being used after Dublin regularly handing out a 20 points + thrashing to Leinster opponents in Croker in recent years.
Seems like Ulster teams cant get an even break on RTE these days.
Curlew66 (Roscommon) - Posts: 507 - 23/05/2016 18:40:56
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Just to clarify the score with 20min on the clock was 2-4 to 0-5.
Wally (Tyrone) - Posts: 913 - 23/05/2016 18:49:59
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I think we may have found out who was operating the score board at Celtic Park yesterday, take a bow GaryMc
brendtheredhand (Tyrone) - Posts: 10897 - 23/05/2016 19:37:22
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Replying To GaryMc82: "I disagree, Generally when any team gets a few goal's, they tend to kick on and win comfortably with often with the game over as a contest long before the final whistle. With 20 minutes on the clock yesterday, Derry took the lead 0-06 to 1-02. Now while it was far from a vintage display, realistically we are starting from a much lower place than Tyrone and we were always going to be up against it.
But my point above regarding the score is showing that Tyrone were not great in that opening 20 minutes, and they were poor in attack apart from that first goal. For all their credentials and plaudits, they only registered 2 points in the opening 20 minutes and only came to life after the 2nd goal.
After the 2nd goal, Derry heads dropped, Tyrone tagged a few more points and then a killer 3rd goal. So the entire 2nd half was a dead rubber match, as both teams knew the game was over. So from an analytical point of view, we were still very much in the game after conceding that first goal, but the 2nd goal was the turning point for Tyrone. The goal's were massive for Tyrone and gave them a much needed lift, had we not conceded those goal's, It would clearly have been a very different encounter considering the how few points Tyrone had on the 20 minute mark.
You might disagree, but if you can bring yourself to re-watch the game and analyse it carefully, you will see that I'm highlight the real changing point of the game. We were well beaten in the end, but I'm not so sure that would have been the case had we not conceded those goal's. Terrible defensive match-up" Gary
I have to disagree with your analysis......Derry scored a few wonder points early on but you could see the way the game was going from very early on. Derry were never leading apart from the first couple of minutes.....this is the 3rd person to say this but you haven't taken it in. Maybe watch the game again and analyse the score carefully. also it's human nature to get demoralised in any sport when the opposition is banging in score after score so that isn't really in depth analysis.....its stating the obvious.
I honestly thought Derry would of give Tyrone a good game on Sunday but it wasn't to be....they really need a run in the qualifiers which they haven't done that often in the past and with a few players already going to Armerica it will be all the tougher. Good luck to Derry for the rest of the year.
The_Fridge (Tyrone) - Posts: 2088 - 23/05/2016 20:31:10
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Also I thought Celtic Park was badly organised on Sunday..... No programs for sale at one side of the stand.....you had to go to the other end to buy a program. Scoreboard didn't work. No match clock. Massive queues for the male and female toilets.
The_Fridge (Tyrone) - Posts: 2088 - 23/05/2016 20:34:52
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Replying To The_Fridge: "Gary
I have to disagree with your analysis......Derry scored a few wonder points early on but you could see the way the game was going from very early on. Derry were never leading apart from the first couple of minutes.....this is the 3rd person to say this but you haven't taken it in. Maybe watch the game again and analyse the score carefully. also it's human nature to get demoralised in any sport when the opposition is banging in score after score so that isn't really in depth analysis.....its stating the obvious.
I honestly thought Derry would of give Tyrone a good game on Sunday but it wasn't to be....they really need a run in the qualifiers which they haven't done that often in the past and with a few players already going to Armerica it will be all the tougher. Good luck to Derry for the rest of the year." Yes I put my hands up, I made a mistake with the score/time due to how I wrote scores down during the match.
With regards being the 3rd person to say that, and me not taking it in. I just want to clarify that I hadn't responded to one comment, so I'm not sure how that constitutes me not taking it in. Your comment suggested I continued to argue that point with the last 3 comments.
GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 25/05/2016 14:57:24
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