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Derry vs Tyrone

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Replying To neverright:  "Congrats to Tyrone on a big win. Commentator mentioned at one stage that there were 29 players in one half of the field, the Tyrone half. I don't think it would be accurate to call that a 'blanket defence'. That's more like a blanket and a duvet combined. Seriously, is gaelic football moving closer to how rugby is played (minus the formal scrums)?"
When any other county defends in numbers and attacks in numbers, it's "players going man-to-man, there's players going zonal, it's a combination of both". See:http://www.the42.ie/jim-gavin-dublin-blanket-defence-2063366-Apr2015/
And this is fair enough. In another code, it was good enough for Ajax. But when Tyrone defends in numbers and attacks in numbers, it's an opportunity for torrents of sanctimonious, hypocritical guff. Occasionally, the bitterness and the sledging is close to comical - here we have some legend from, er, Carlow lecturing us on how to play football:
http://www.balls.ie/gaa/blanket-defence-in-gaelic-football/90228
At least though, he's open about his bigotry: "Let me start off by saying I don't like Ulster football, and I never have. When I was younger it was because 'they' were 'up there'- counties and places that I knew very little about."
We'd never have guessed!

essmac (Tyrone) - Posts: 1141 - 22/05/2016 20:10:45    1857472

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Replying To gotmilk:  "Same gameplan, just a hell of a lot better implemented. This is the first time Kildare have adopted this tactic so it's a work in progress. Perfect example is the contrast between donegal 2011 and 2012. You have to work at the game plan and then fine tune it. Do you remember the dubs against Kerry in 2009? I do and it wasn't pretty. They went back and Gilroy developed a defensive system. In 2010 it was in it's early stages and there were times they weren't great. 2011 it came on a bit more. Last year was the culmination of 5 years work and by god it was good.

Out of curiosity are you suggesting that if you aren't going to challenge for an All Ireland you shouldn't have a system?

Anyway back to the game. Tyrone were excellent. That is a different Derry side to the one I saw in Celtic park on the last weekend of January. What is going on with the oak leaf men?"
I don't think that is what's being said again you're misunderstanding - if you sit back and defend and that's all you have in the locker then you won't get scores, there has to be some form of offensive tactic. By all means teams should try different tactics irrespective of how they perceive their chances of winning provincial or all Ireland's - but surely the object of the game is to score more than the other team - not limit how much you will be beaten by. That my friend is the subtle difference - I'd much rather a team went for it and go down in a blaze of glory TBH. The better teams have mastered the art of defending with all 15 players but also attacking - how much did the Dublin full back line score last year? Tyrone are trying something slightly different again this year which I feel is again slightly different and that is to be applauded - the game is going to continue to innovate but the goal is still to out score your opponents.

IrishGael3 (USA) - Posts: 1092 - 22/05/2016 20:27:07    1857485

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Replying To IrishGael3:  "I don't think that is what's being said again you're misunderstanding - if you sit back and defend and that's all you have in the locker then you won't get scores, there has to be some form of offensive tactic. By all means teams should try different tactics irrespective of how they perceive their chances of winning provincial or all Ireland's - but surely the object of the game is to score more than the other team - not limit how much you will be beaten by. That my friend is the subtle difference - I'd much rather a team went for it and go down in a blaze of glory TBH. The better teams have mastered the art of defending with all 15 players but also attacking - how much did the Dublin full back line score last year? Tyrone are trying something slightly different again this year which I feel is again slightly different and that is to be applauded - the game is going to continue to innovate but the goal is still to out score your opponents."
I agree. You need to score more than your opponent to win a game. But for me all good teams need to start from the back before they go out in blaze of glory. It's a lot easier to add an attacking game plan to a defensive strategy rather than the other way around.

gotmilk (Fermanagh) - Posts: 4971 - 22/05/2016 20:34:48    1857490

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Replying To IrishGael3:  "Got milk still not getting what I say - I give up. To the rest I hope to see an exciting championship this year - the Dubs are favourites and on merit - it will be interesting to see what Kerry, Mayo, Donegal, Cork and Tyone come up with to take them on - let the games begin. And to say watching the dubs style of play is the same as what was served up last night by Kildare then I have to I have to question some peoples interpretation of football."
Got milk seems to think because cian o sullivan plays a sweeper role that dublin play a blanket defence.theres a difference between a good defence and a blanket defence..because you defend and tackle well when needs be doesnt automatically mean your playing a blanket..look at examples of a blanket defence a real blanket donegal v dublin 2011..derry v dublin 2014 league.or kildare v wexford last night..there the kind of games that give the true meaning of the word blanket .so in my eyes to say dublin play a blanket defence is laughable..

GGdub (Dublin) - Posts: 260 - 22/05/2016 20:41:26    1857498

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When i saw,first hand,Tyrone's water-tight defensive structure in the Div 2 final v Cavan i couldn't help but think i wouldn't fancy any team,Dublin included,trying to breach it and scoring a goal.

I certainly felt a tad sorry for Cavan that day as,bar shaving the crossbar with a 20 yard piledriver,Tyrone looked so composed and comfortable and never looked like conceding a three-pointer.

I rate Tyrone as extremely dangerous opponents.I would put them as joint second favourites for the All Ireland along with Kerry(ahead of Mayo and Donegal).

On another thread i already predicted a Dublin v Tyrone All Ire final.Sean Cavanagh can't have too many years left (seems he's around forever) but he is a collossal of the game and i wouldn't begrudge him another medal : just not at our expense.

cuederocket (Dublin) - Posts: 5084 - 22/05/2016 20:49:04    1857501

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Replying To GGdub:  "Got milk seems to think because cian o sullivan plays a sweeper role that dublin play a blanket defence.theres a difference between a good defence and a blanket defence..because you defend and tackle well when needs be doesnt automatically mean your playing a blanket..look at examples of a blanket defence a real blanket donegal v dublin 2011..derry v dublin 2014 league.or kildare v wexford last night..there the kind of games that give the true meaning of the word blanket .so in my eyes to say dublin play a blanket defence is laughable.."
Too much talk about blanket defence. Every team sport demands that when the opposition have the ball everyone is a defender. Whether it's called blanket, massed, defending from the front, full court press or parking the bus it is only the naive that think that defenders just defend and attackers just attack. A team that just wants to sit back will inevitably lose because in gaelic football the better teams will find a way. Tyrone in my opinion were so well versed in what they wanted to do for the championship and today was just part of that preparation that they will improve game by game. Big players in the months ahead.

ponga (Mayo) - Posts: 650 - 22/05/2016 20:58:04    1857505

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The best example of a blanket defence I saw , and it involved BOTH teams was the Ulster semi final 2012 Tyrone v Donegal Now I thought it was one of the hardest games I ever saw , very little space for anyone to manoeuvre and I think it was 0-12 to 0-10 to Donegal.
Around that stage I think Donegal ( well J MC G) had built an advantage over other teams that particular year as regards Blanket defence but Tyrone were not far behind But as Donegal found out from 2011 you have to have an attacking policy as well
That's what would worry me as regards Donegal as to how they played in the latter stages of the league this year--- they just were not scoring enough. That will not be good enough come he championship.
I was impressed with Tyrone last year and I thought that in the semi v Kerry they missed Joe MC Mahon big time. Wonder will he be back soon ? But really today they bossed the whole game. I'd like to see all the quarter finals played so we can see what kind of shape Cavan Armagh Donegal Fermanagh Down and Monaghan are in

SamOnErrigal (Donegal) - Posts: 1427 - 22/05/2016 21:08:23    1857514

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Super win for Tyrone..

Although Derry are far from good at the moment

But still.. a great start for a serious contender

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 22/05/2016 21:15:15    1857521

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Replying To GGdub:  "Got milk seems to think because cian o sullivan plays a sweeper role that dublin play a blanket defence.theres a difference between a good defence and a blanket defence..because you defend and tackle well when needs be doesnt automatically mean your playing a blanket..look at examples of a blanket defence a real blanket donegal v dublin 2011..derry v dublin 2014 league.or kildare v wexford last night..there the kind of games that give the true meaning of the word blanket .so in my eyes to say dublin play a blanket defence is laughable.."
Well done to Tyrone today. Felt from early on this year that they are the team best placed to challenge Dublin this year. Honestly feel it's their year for Ulster anyway.

Does anyone else get driven mental about the flippant use of the term 'blanket defence or 'the blanket' or 'duvet', etc.. In my mind there is no such thing as a blanket defence. No manager would ever use this term while coaching a team. It is a defensive structure.

To quote Jim McGuinness... "'blanket defence' is an inaccurate term because it holds connotations of something shapeless and formless and heavy when in fact, a successful defensive structure is dependent on the opposite characteristics".

Any chance lads can stop using the term blanket defence or any other form of this term in this forum!!

HandballRef (Donegal) - Posts: 520 - 22/05/2016 21:18:29    1857522

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Replying To HandballRef:  "Well done to Tyrone today. Felt from early on this year that they are the team best placed to challenge Dublin this year. Honestly feel it's their year for Ulster anyway.

Does anyone else get driven mental about the flippant use of the term 'blanket defence or 'the blanket' or 'duvet', etc.. In my mind there is no such thing as a blanket defence. No manager would ever use this term while coaching a team. It is a defensive structure.

To quote Jim McGuinness... "'blanket defence' is an inaccurate term because it holds connotations of something shapeless and formless and heavy when in fact, a successful defensive structure is dependent on the opposite characteristics".

Any chance lads can stop using the term blanket defence or any other form of this term in this forum!!"
Not going to happen, same old posters churning out same old tired clichés, blanket, puke, Ulster, basketball, you'll find them all quoted at some point in the season.

brendtheredhand (Tyrone) - Posts: 10897 - 22/05/2016 21:28:43    1857527

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Replying To HandballRef:  "Well done to Tyrone today. Felt from early on this year that they are the team best placed to challenge Dublin this year. Honestly feel it's their year for Ulster anyway.

Does anyone else get driven mental about the flippant use of the term 'blanket defence or 'the blanket' or 'duvet', etc.. In my mind there is no such thing as a blanket defence. No manager would ever use this term while coaching a team. It is a defensive structure.

To quote Jim McGuinness... "'blanket defence' is an inaccurate term because it holds connotations of something shapeless and formless and heavy when in fact, a successful defensive structure is dependent on the opposite characteristics".

Any chance lads can stop using the term blanket defence or any other form of this term in this forum!!"
I agree but I'm using the term blanket to explain defensive structures to our friend from the capital.

gotmilk (Fermanagh) - Posts: 4971 - 22/05/2016 21:36:35    1857533

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Tyrone were very impressive in a game they were never going to lose AND they have a bench laden with talent that was held back for another day.
Derry simply did not have the calibre of player throughout their squad to implement the strategy to present a meaningful challenge. They also (deep down) did not have the belief that they could beat Tyrone, you can train as hard as you like but if the belief is not there well...
Whoever gets to the final to meet them (probably ourselves or Donegal) will have the belief and quality to give them a real test, and if it's us we will beat them.

mhunicean_abu (Monaghan) - Posts: 1044 - 22/05/2016 21:39:40    1857535

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Replying To GGdub:  "Got milk seems to think because cian o sullivan plays a sweeper role that dublin play a blanket defence.theres a difference between a good defence and a blanket defence..because you defend and tackle well when needs be doesnt automatically mean your playing a blanket..look at examples of a blanket defence a real blanket donegal v dublin 2011..derry v dublin 2014 league.or kildare v wexford last night..there the kind of games that give the true meaning of the word blanket .so in my eyes to say dublin play a blanket defence is laughable.."
The only difference between those games and the current Dublin side is the speed at which they countered. Have you ever watched Dublin play? When they aren't in position they fall back into their own half. Brogan tends to be the only one who doesn't at any stage in the game. Flynn etc will regularly be found dropping deep. When the term blanket defence was coined it was as a result of boys like Dooher etc dropping deep. Messers like spillane use to criticise teams for their half forward line not scoring enough. This is now a regular occurrence in teams you suggest don't play a 'blanket defence'. Is it only a blanket defence if the team aren't Dublin or don't rack up a big score?

gotmilk (Fermanagh) - Posts: 4971 - 22/05/2016 21:42:19    1857537

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Replying To brendtheredhand:  "
Replying To HandballRef:  "Well done to Tyrone today. Felt from early on this year that they are the team best placed to challenge Dublin this year. Honestly feel it's their year for Ulster anyway.

Does anyone else get driven mental about the flippant use of the term 'blanket defence or 'the blanket' or 'duvet', etc.. In my mind there is no such thing as a blanket defence. No manager would ever use this term while coaching a team. It is a defensive structure.

To quote Jim McGuinness... "'blanket defence' is an inaccurate term because it holds connotations of something shapeless and formless and heavy when in fact, a successful defensive structure is dependent on the opposite characteristics".

Any chance lads can stop using the term blanket defence or any other form of this term in this forum!!"
Not going to happen, same old posters churning out same old tired clichés, blanket, puke, Ulster, basketball, you'll find them all quoted at some point in the season."
It's the usual, stereotypical guff that we have become used to. It is churned out by lazy people who can't think for themselves and who follow and pander to the crowd. They love to use the words puke and blanket because it reinforces their own prejudices; a comfort blanket for them.

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9706 - 22/05/2016 21:46:47    1857543

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Listen I don't want to be negative I'm sick of being negative about the games I love but there has to be a rule brought in were you can't have all 15 of your players in their own half there's no skill or art having 15 players defending in their own half. Anyway Well done Tyrone great forward play today hard luck Derry.

clondalkindub (Dublin) - Posts: 9926 - 22/05/2016 21:54:28    1857551

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I and I imagine the Tyrone team genuinely couldn't care less whether people label some style of play. I don't watch RTE anyway and I go to all the games. I enjoy what I seen yesterday with even Derry chipping in with some sensational scores which wouldn't have occurred only for Tyrones set up.

People and I believe it to be mostly from outside the County hyping Tyrone to ridiculous levels. Of course they have a chance as they are in top 6 in the country but that's all at this stage.

Very exciting team with bags of pace, on to the next one!

redhanddefender (Tyrone) - Posts: 913 - 23/05/2016 08:43:23    1857572

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I and I imagine the Tyrone team genuinely couldn't care less whether people label some style of play. I don't watch RTE anyway and I go to all the games. I enjoy what I seen yesterday with even Derry chipping in with some sensational scores which wouldn't have occurred only for Tyrones set up.

People and I believe it to be mostly from outside the County hyping Tyrone to ridiculous levels. Of course they have a chance as they are in top 6 in the country but that's all at this stage.

Very exciting team with bags of pace, on to the next one!

redhanddefender (Tyrone) - Posts:822 - 23/05/2016 08:43:23

Excellent job by Tyrone yesterday. Derry are poor though and have been leaking scores in 2016.
Might be a bit early yet to rate them as genuine contenders, but if they win Ulster they'll be well primed for August.
There's a couple of big scalps in them....

Superglue (Kerry) - Posts: 1283 - 23/05/2016 10:34:38    1857621

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Derry did ok in the beginning & they scored some absolute beauties. But there is no team in the land who can sustain that and win a game relying on super scores. Once it became apparent that these scores were drying up they had no clue how to penetrate the Tyrone rearguard. Now I know it's easier said than done, but I would be critical of the Derry management here. They've had months to think and prepare for it but it was like they took to the field and encountered something brand new. After half time it was almost kamikaze stuff - boot the ball inside and see what happens. Tyrone are far too cute to succumb to rudimentary tactics like that. They simply funneled back, broke the ball and gobbled up the breaks. After that, the inevitable happened, Derry lost heart and discipline and Tyrone picked them off at their leisure. I would worry for Derry football in the short term. It's hard seeing them regrouping to do anything worthwhile in the qualifiers. Hopefully, they can harness the talent at minor level, (although young Glass is a huge loss) and aim for senior success down the line.

Tyrone played exactly as I knew they would. Their defensive system is so finely tuned and every man knows his role. They are supremely well conditioned and are so dynamic on the counter attack. Apparently the mantra this year is: "Stop goals - Score Goals" in order to win matches. Tyrone were goal shy last year but they look to have rectified that and this spells danger for any team they face. If you concede 2 goals to them then you're in bother. They protect the scoring zone so well, forcing teams into cul-de-sacs or else shooting from highly improbable and ambitious distances/angles. As Derry found out yesterday, it may work for you for about ten minutes, but after that you better have something else to bring to the party or you're looking at a fairly embarrassing and miserable day at the office.

Encouraging times for the Redhands. They will be in the Ulster final and more than likely face Monaghan/Donegal. That would be a step up for them, but if they were to overcome that and enter the AI series as Ulster champions then you'd have to give them serious consideration for the whole thing.

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9154 - 23/05/2016 10:35:05    1857622

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What impressed me the most about Tyrone's display Vs Derry, was that when they were forced out to the wings, they had no trouble converting points from tight angles. Derry could have been a little tighter in marking the man taking the shot, but that doesn't take away from the fact that Tyrone look very comfortable taking those shots from marginal angles.

In alot of ways, this marginalises the opposition use of a sweeper system to control the D.

A swarm (a more apt word than blanket) defence they may have, but they have a swarm attack to match it. I'll be keeping an eye on them this summer - they look very good when they break into attack, the transition from defence is fluid, and reeks of many hours put in on the training pitch getting it right.

Jaden (Dublin) - Posts: 139 - 23/05/2016 11:21:07    1857655

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Tyrone were nothing more than efficent yesterday the current group of players are maturing into a solid well drilled squad. Only time and more robust challengers will let us know how high they can fly.
Derry unfortunately looked like a bunch of lads that brought pen-knives to a sword fight, they thought they knew what they were there for but it wasn't long before they realised that they just didn't have the right tools for the job.

downredhand (Tyrone) - Posts: 567 - 23/05/2016 11:26:11    1857657

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