I disagree with Jim McGuinness here. I don't think Dublin can be beaten. I think they have improved alot since last year. Players like Kilkenny, John Small, Davey Byrne, Brian fenton, even Dean Rock have improved. Paul Mannion is back looking better than ever. Bastick has improved. McCauley can't get his place for heaven's sake. Bernand Brogan is as good as ever. Cooper and Mcmahon have a year more experience. Eric Lowndes and Cormac Costelloe are chomping at the bit . there are no weaknesses. If someone is having an off day (like Connolly for instance) they can bring on a ready replacement

s goldrick (Cavan) - Posts: 5518 - 11/05/2016 12:53:49    1853976

Its true Dublin are beatable not this year they are
the form team and watching their opposition in the
league its back to back AI they are a good bit ahead
of Mayo Kerry Donegal Cork Tyrone thats it the rest
forget about it

wfkerry (USA) - Posts: 933 - 11/05/2016 13:00:22    1853981

I read Jim's article as I usually do as I have great respect for what he achieved and the message I got from it is that unless the likes of Mayo,Donegal, Tyrone (main 3 contenders to worry Dublin) throw up something completely different and unexpected against Dublin then they have no chance beating them straight up.

Now unpredictability is great, but the problem is for it to work those teams won't be able to show those tactics in any prior game as Dublin will have people in the stands watching every game and tracking every minute adjustment and thus be ready for it if they meet that particular side later on.

Which means of course any new tactics or adjustments won't have a test run in a competitive match environment as in-house games won't give an accurate gauge as to their effectiveness. And if they don't work it's very hard to go back to Plan A and try and chase this juggernaut down.

Its a real Catch 22 scenario for managements to deal with for sure

KYTitletown (Kerry) - Posts:333 - 11/05/2016 12:33:44 1853

Haha that gave me good laugh. Your obbessed with Dublin.I'm sure Kerry,Mayo have scouts analysing Dublin tactics

Gael85 (Dublin) - Posts: 1433 - 11/05/2016 13:48:03    1854023

Hes right, this Dublin team is far from unbeatable this year they will be weaker then last and weaker to how they will be next year, this year is the best oppurtunity, but on the whole Dublin are beatable.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 11/05/2016 14:15:15    1854040

I'm just stating facts that Dublin have a huge backroom setup far bigger than anywhere else, I'm sorry if the truth bothers you

Talking about Gaelic Football without Dublin would be like not mentioning the All Blacks in Rugby or the Golden State Warriors in Basketball. I have posted plenty about the Kerry hurlers and lower tier hurling in general so the 'obsessed' moniker is ludicrous.

KYTitletown (Kerry) - Posts: 816 - 11/05/2016 14:22:15    1854043

Ah sure if I was a Donegal supporter I wouldn't be too bothered about meath putting 5 goals past them, they done the same to the Dubs in 2010 and guess what????? (leaving aside the match winning try in the leinster final that year)

DUBJOHN (Dublin) - Posts: 932 - 11/05/2016 14:27:45    1854049

Dublin are the team to beat, but any side which spends its time becoming a Dubs antidote won't be developing their own strengths and a game plan that maximises these. The Dubs have developed tactics which protect their own weaknesses, as well as countering the negative tactics of some rivals. This is what any team who intends to trouble them this year will need to concentrate on. Keeping a whole different approach for meeting one team is the surest way of never getting to even meet them. The Dubs don't ever play a different way for any opponent, they just keep working on improving their execution of the game plan, and bolt on the odd innovation (like the basketball approach to attack setup after Donegal 2014). What Jim McG seems to be suggesting is that the Dubs approach may have become so formulaic that they might unravel if someone can find something which their game script hasn't anticipated. It's easy asking the question...

Pericles (Mayo) - Posts: 2521 - 11/05/2016 14:59:23    1854060

Any new tactics or adjustments won't have a test fun in a competitive match environment.
That's true enough KY title town as especially if you are going to play this Dublin team in a QFinal/ semifinal or final I would not expect he manager to show his hand
And the way it is at the moment the likes of Kerry , Mayo Donegal or even Tyrone would not have to show their hand too much at the beginning of the championship. I think we all agree August and the serious business starts.
I see he has studied Dublin's sweeper system -- what to do about Cian o Sullivan. Do you man mark him all through the game I think Derry done it to Armagh in the Ulster semi of 2011 , marked the sweeper and won handy Cluxtons kick outs ? Put pressure on the Dublin full back line.
Take the Mobil phones off your panel the morning of the game. Don't think anyone foresaw Donegal's set up in 2011v Dublin Still it took Dublin a long time that day to figure it out.
And don't forget that Derrys ultra defensive system in the league meeting last year gave Dublin a lot of problems. And what I saw in Croke park on Easter Sat night Donegal were well in the game until M Murphys dismissal. And indeed their blanket ( hard to watch I admit) in the first half especially worked fairly well , was it 6 to 5 points at half time.
To me the bottom line is -- how near the top are Tyrone? Have Donegal one last kick? Are Kerry finished? Or will Mayo at last deliver If the plan properly J mcG gives them every chance and with one of the McEntees in the Mayo back room Maybe Maybe

SamOnErrigal (Donegal) - Posts: 1427 - 11/05/2016 15:10:17    1854061

Remember when the Dubs were unbeatable in 2014? Of course they're beatable. It's Championship football. Only those who don't want to give credit to what Gavin et al have achieved and rather focus on $$$ will whine about them being unbeatable and crow if they slip up. I'm sure we'll be hearing the "unbeatable" tag being used ad nauseam as the summer continues. It's not true though, and Dublin and Gavin know that.

Gavvygavgav (Dublin) - Posts: 383 - 11/05/2016 15:11:29    1854062

KYTitletown makes a great point here about trying to beat Dublin. You need to bring something new to the table tactics wise and you can't test it in a game prior to that, otherwise Dublin will have seen it. On the flip side of that, everyone knows what Dublin bring to the table so it is up to the management teams to come up with counter measures, not easy an task but it can be done.

I would agree with Jim that Mayo will be the biggest challenge to Dublin. If they can tighten up at the back and not ship goals then they have a great chance. You would have to assume bringing McEntee into the set up was to tighten things up at the back.

Green_Gold (Donegal) - Posts: 1876 - 11/05/2016 15:35:02    1854078

I'm just stating facts that Dublin have a huge backroom setup far bigger than anywhere else, I'm sorry if the truth bothers you

Talking about Gaelic Football without Dublin would be like not mentioning the All Blacks in Rugby or the Golden State Warriors in Basketball. I have posted plenty about the Kerry hurlers and lower tier hurling in general so the 'obsessed' moniker is ludicrous.

KYTitletown (Kerry) - Posts:334 - 11/05/2016 14:22:15 1

Backroom teams count for nothing if you cant put the ball over the bar. Paul Caffrey had a huge backroom team in his term but ultimately players weren't good enough. I think we will struggle without O'Carroll and McCaffrey at the business end. When we lost to Donegal in 2014 we were missing Ger Brennan, Denis Bastick and Ciaran Kilkenny who key players the previous year.

Gael85 (Dublin) - Posts: 1433 - 11/05/2016 15:36:05    1854081

KYTitletown makes a great point here about trying to beat Dublin. You need to bring something new to the table tactics wise and you can't test it in a game prior to that, otherwise Dublin will have seen it. On the flip side of that, everyone knows what Dublin bring to the table so it is up to the management teams to come up with counter measures, not easy an task but it can be done.

I would agree with Jim that Mayo will be the biggest challenge to Dublin. If they can tighten up at the back and not ship goals then they have a great chance. You would have to assume bringing McEntee into the set up was to tighten things up at the back.

Green_Gold (Donegal) - Posts:55 - 11/05/2016 15:35:02 1854

Would agree but Kerry didnt give anything away tactically in 2 league games against us. Kerry didnt even try in league final. You can guarantee if meet again Kerry will push up on kickouts, man mark Cian o'Sullivan by pushing Darran O'Sullivan onto him. They will play with a more mobile too. Kerry are waiting in long grass

Gael85 (Dublin) - Posts: 1433 - 11/05/2016 15:40:36    1854084

Reading the article I got the feeling that McGuinness would love a go at taking down the Dubs again.

A friend of mine who also read the piece said that McGuinness was basically saying that if he was managing Mayo, Donegal, Kerry or Cork the could hatch a plan to take out the dubs!

It's stating the obvious that any team can be beaten. Statistics alone would suggest retaining Sam is not easy.

On current form Dublin are a bit ahead of the pack but it is only May

unclegerry (Mayo) - Posts: 1222 - 11/05/2016 15:55:47    1854093

Dublin are beatable but it will take a trojan effort by Keryr (if we beat them). I think Kerry can beat them but would need to score 3 goals at the least. Wouldnt write off Tyrone, Cork (still think they have a sting) beating them either.
The team most set up to beat the Dubs this year I think are Mayo. but then again Mayo could end been beaten before they get a chance to face the Dubs.

We can only live in hope as it is also possible Dubs juggernaut may just walk through this championship handy enough too.

woops (Kerry) - Posts: 2073 - 11/05/2016 15:57:59    1854095

So you think after the numerous defeats we've suffered to Dublin at Croke Park the Kerry management were happy to accept such an evisceration as happened in the League Final? Absolutely ridiculous is all I can say. We threw everything we could at the league final and the result spoke for itself.

Dublin didn't even play well by their incredible standards! They made a lot of unusual sloppy errors - a sign of a team who knew there was no trouble of the opposition a bit like a cat playing with a poor mouse nowhere to go and only waiting to be put out of its mercy. That's how it felt from a Kerry perspective and I won't lie it wasn't easy to watch (not that we lost as I knew we would) I can only imagine what mental trauma the players the players suffered during that bad beating.

How can we play more mobile? With today's methods and technologies you can do a lot to help and develop players. One thing you cannot do is make players quicker and more mobile no matter how much training and effort is put in. You mention Darran - 1 quick player isn't enough certainly not enough to disturb a conductor like COS when our Half-Forward Line is being forced back to protect our painful lack of mobility throughout our defence and midfield as evidenced by the league final.

Even we get the ball we are so slow and ponderous by the time the ball gets to the opp 45 Dublin will have transitioned back with ease and thus COS unaffected in his role. In terms of mobility, Mayo have shown they can cope with ye for 50-55 minutes but just don't have the bench to drive it on in the last 15 or so.

KYTitletown (Kerry) - Posts: 816 - 11/05/2016 16:14:12    1854101

Dublin's 3 main contenders are Mayo, Donegal, and Tyrone

I'm just stating facts that Dublin have a huge backroom setup far bigger than anywhere else, I'm sorry if the truth bothers you

Talking about Gaelic Football without Dublin would be like not mentioning the All Blacks in Rugby or the Golden State Warriors in Basketball. I have posted plenty about the Kerry hurlers and lower tier hurling in general so the 'obsessed' moniker is ludicrous.

KYTitletown (Kerry) - Posts:334 - 11/05/2016 14:22:15



Good work there KYT, omit Kerry who are clearly Dublin's main contenders, and then compare Dublin to The All Blacks. We all know that Kerry are the All Blacks of gah. Why do you want to talk your own county down or even ignore them?

Capitalist (Dublin) - Posts: 47 - 11/05/2016 16:20:23    1854105

Capitalist

Well re: the All Blacks reference 1. I have never seen the great Richie McCaw wear a Kerry jersey. 2 Dublin are the dominant team in the football landscape - any preview of the championship you will see in the papers or online will feature Dublin very prominently (as it should) again very similar to the All Blacks

If I was to compare Kerry to an outside sports team - it'd be Brazil. Both wear similar attire, have great histories , one or two top players but sadly not really relevant competing for major titles nor a real threat to the top teams in their respective sports.


Finally, do you think I get a kick of running the Kerry team down? I don't I just call it as I see it and I don't know how anyone who saw the league final can seriously believe we are a threat to Dublin. Now if a team falls from the skies and takes ye out early (Tyrone in a QF?) we might have a chance but in reality that is a long shot and wishful thinking

KYTitletown (Kerry) - Posts: 816 - 11/05/2016 16:48:36    1854127

We can only live in hope as it is also possible Dubs juggernaut may just walk through this championship handy enough too.
woops (Kerry)

Ah now...living in hope is something we do waiting since 1951...ye hardly live in hope in Kerry now do ye ;) Kerry will win another All Ireland soon.

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11236 - 11/05/2016 17:22:34    1854139

Mayo will definitely get the kitchen sink thrown in Connacht, there's no doubting that, and we don't know how to find the backdoor. If we meet the Dubs at all it'll likely be in September, so far from guaranteed. The only team you can almost bank on meeting the Dubs are Kerry, and finding that extra bit of mobility is the only gap the Kingdom needs to close. I don't buy into the idea that the Dubs have done real damage to Kerry's confidence. Weren't they champs in 2014 despite losing the Gooch and being in transition? Fitzmaurice will come up with something between now and August.

Pericles (Mayo) - Posts: 2521 - 11/05/2016 17:30:08    1854141

Based on last year's championship, Mayo are the closest to beating Dublin. They are going to have to find another level though and actually play to their full strength for a full 70 minutes. They have a very bad habit of nodding off mid-match, which just isn't going to cut it against opposition like Dublin, who are always waiting for an opportunity to strike and put the game away. Mayo also need to do something about their very naive defensive strategy if they're ever going to win an All-Ireland. Gung ho attack that leaves the defense exposed is always going to be found out eventually.

I think Kerry will be in the latter stages of the competition based on the quality within the team, but whether they have the legs for a full 70 minutes against Dublin remains to be seen. They really are in need of new blood.

Tyrone are a coming team and a strong candidate to take out a top team. If the draw plays out as expected, they will have Mayo in the semi final, and I could see them seizing the opportunity to do Mayo in.

Cork are a bit unusual in that it's impossible to tell which Cork team will show up on the day, which makes them a bit of a tricky proposition. I wouldn't be totally surprised if they caused an upset along the way because the talent is there, but they lack the consistency to really challenge for an AI title.

ZeitChrist (UK) - Posts: 154 - 11/05/2016 17:50:02    1854151