Some good minors coming through though.
All the same I dont see them beating the dubs anytime in the near future.

joncarter (Galway) - Posts: 2692 - 01/05/2016 21:30:09    1851201

Without doubt Joncarter, great minors, but this is the transition I'm talking about.

KerryKillers (Dublin) - Posts: 711 - 01/05/2016 21:57:48    1851205

Age is a factor right now in football anyway, and there's no getting around that point. A Galway poster dismissed Mayo on the basis of mileage earlier too, but the fact is about 4 or 5 starters will be 22 or younger come championship time and none of these players will be going in wet behind the ears. Mayo have been gradually incorporating new guys every year and letting go players who still had something to offer. Andy Moran and Alan Dillon are the exceptions, but neither has been a starter for quite some time. Donegal and Dublin have been doing the same to different extents... it's the Coady model and just way things have gone. Kerry haven't been doing this but you always know the Kingdom will respond. I think some posters are using the age thing as a cover for suggesting that the players to push the oldies off the team and panel mustn't be there. I think it's far more likely that Eamonn Fitz has possibly been a little bit too loyal to the great bunch he soldiered with. The Galvin experiment and Tommy Walsh dropping himself are signs that Eamonn should resist looking to the past for solutions. The notion that a team with a full set of teeth will come along and replace these greats, like the lads of the 70's did, is a bit fanciful given the modern game, but this is where things could end up... it's either evolution or revolution.

Pericles (Mayo) - Posts: 2521 - 02/05/2016 10:13:03    1851224

Kerry haven't been doing this but you always know the Kingdom will respond. I think some posters are using the age thing as a cover for suggesting that the players to push the oldies off the team and panel mustn't be there. I think it's far more likely that Eamonn Fitz has possibly been a little bit too loyal to the great bunch he soldiered with. The Galvin experiment and Tommy Walsh dropping himself are signs that Eamonn should resist looking to the past for solutions. The notion that a team with a full set of teeth will come along and replace these greats, like the lads of the 70's did, is a bit fanciful given the modern game, but this is where things could end up... it's either evolution or revolution.

Pericles (Mayo) - Posts:1342 - 02/05/2016 10:13:03

Kerry's Pat Spillane has been quick to highlight how the likes of Mayo and Donegal have a lot of miles on the legs, and yet ignored how his own County are actually older with more miles on the legs. So I don't its a surprise when people from other counties start highlighting Kerry's own issues.

I think Eamon Fitzmaurice is an excellent manager, I honestly feel that tactically he is one of the best right now. I don't buy that he would play seasoned veterans out of a sense of loyalty, I suspect he will field his best 15 always. And I don't believe all of the Kerry over 30's need to retire or aren't good enough, merely that fielding 8 or more players aged 30 or over against very fit and pacey Dublin is unlikely to get you a win. Players in their 30's can still play, however players in their mid-30's should probably be subs at best.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 02/05/2016 11:44:54    1851263

I think we agree on a lot of things Gary, but I'm not sure whether Eamon Fitz could be regarded as a tactical genius in the same way McGuiness/Gallagher were for Donegal or Jim Gavin has been for the Dubs. Even our lads tried something new against the Dubs last year with the kickouts, something which I hear Kerry are going to take a serious look at with August in mind. But I can't recall anything new that the Kerry lads have tried recently, it's generally been a case of having to react rather than take the lead.

Pericles (Mayo) - Posts: 2521 - 02/05/2016 14:32:46    1851330

People are getting carried a way a bit about Dublin , now they are a great team no doubt. But how great ?? Is their greatness still to come. ? Now we are talking about a team that have failed to reach TWO All Ireland Finals in a row.
Can people here realise that over the last five years the margins between teams at the end of important games( semi finals / All Ireland finals ) was close enough Donegal by 4 in 2012, Dublin by 1 in 2011, same in 2013 and 3 points last year. Kerry by 3 points in 2014. So to me no team will run away with Sam and it will be the same this year. Plus a few of the semi finals over the last few years were close enough
Lots of luck required and panels have to stay free of injuries. Then you have cards and suspensions , lots of things can have a bearing on games.
So I don't agree with people on here who can't seeDublin being beaten. Or that they will rule the roost for the Inforeseeable future. It's all right talking about the young guys who have not made the team yet , whose to say they will make good senior county players though they do look good at U 21 level.
What if Mayo were to make the breakthrough this year, would they not be capable of coming back and winning Two in a row. They won the minor in 2013 and the u 21 on Sat night. How many of the 2013 minor team played on Sat night ?
We don't know who will win this year or indeed next year. Dublin are at the top of the tree at the moment but to win 2 in a row they must first get to this year's final. Could be a bit harder than what people think.

SamOnErrigal (Donegal) - Posts: 1427 - 02/05/2016 14:43:35    1851335

Problem with Mayo playing Dublin is that in recent encounters they've been inclined to take a backwards step and play very defensively and cagey. It just hands the initiative to Dublin and it's not in Mayo's DNA.

I know there has been a lot of analysis of Mayo's propensity to concede goals in big games. It might be time for the management and players to say- "Look if we concede 2 goals it's not a disaster, take them on the chin and move on". I felt that last year Mayo looked like a team that were hell bent on not conceding goals in Croke Park and when they arrived they were psychological hammer blows.

If Mayo REALLY go after Dublin, leave 3 forwards close to goals, press them high, stop Philly McMahon carrying the ball forward, force Cluxton to go long and try and make it a midfield contest there is a real chance they could force enough errors to win a shoot out. If they stand off Dublin and set up a screen I think Dublin have too much class and would eventually start punching holes.

Of course all of this is hypothetical but I don't see anybody else beating Dublin. They seem to really have Kerry's number now and unless Donegal can turn back time or Tyrone's development starts accelerating massively I don't see any other real threats. Mayo will have to pick up on their league form though... there will be banana skins along the way.

roundball (Tipperary) - Posts: 2514 - 02/05/2016 14:55:38    1851341

I think we agree on a lot of things Gary, but I'm not sure whether Eamon Fitz could be regarded as a tactical genius in the same way McGuiness/Gallagher were for Donegal or Jim Gavin has been for the Dubs. Even our lads tried something new against the Dubs last year with the kickouts, something which I hear Kerry are going to take a serious look at with August in mind. But I can't recall anything new that the Kerry lads have tried recently, it's generally been a case of having to react rather than take the lead.

Pericles (Mayo) - Posts:1343 - 02/05/2016 14:32:46 1

I think tactically he is up there, I thought his 2014 AI final opening move of drawing the two McGee's out, and lobbing in to Geaney with a height advantage over Paddy McGrath was a master stroke. In the end that essentially won them the game.

My earlier points were more or less trying to highlight that perhaps tactical genius only works if you have the players to carry out your instructions to a tee, you still need some of your players to beat the opposition to a breaking ball or a diagonal ball in order for the magic to happen.
When you look at the Kerry team, which is exceptionally talented by the way, the only thing a few of them may lack is pace. And that lack of pace only really comes to the fore when they play Dublin, as I think they generally still cope well with the more defensive sides who are slower to attack and less proficient in point taking.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 02/05/2016 15:09:03    1851348

Of course all of this is hypothetical but I don't see anybody else beating Dublin. They seem to really have Kerry's number now and unless Donegal can turn back time or Tyrone's development starts accelerating massively I don't see any other real threats. Mayo will have to pick up on their league form though... there will be banana skins along the way.

roundball (Tipperary) - Posts:2380 - 02/05/2016 14:55:38 18

I always equate development to belief, and we often see All Ireland winners lose a All Ireland Semi final the year before the go on to win it. Upon losing a Semi final, an up and coming team will go away thinking we could actually win this. Had Tyrone actually the All Ireland final last year, I think they would have probably given Dublin their toughest test of the whole year. But they fell short, but came away with the opinion they could win the All Ireland if they brush up on their mistakes and weaknesses. Mickey Harte loves tactical battles and challenges, and I think he will relish the idea of playing Dublin in the All Ireland final. However the problem for Tyrone is getting there, and especially winning Ulster en-route.

Likewise for Donegal, the team with "a lot of miles on the legs", they have been slowly replacing players over the past 3 years. I was shocked that for some of their earlier league games this season, the average age of their starting 15 was around 23 or 24. And those were the game in which Donegal played best. And these players have been in or around their panel for a couple of years at least. Tactically if they can work on varied tactical approach at getting the ball from midfield to full forward, I think they are right up there. Dangerous to write off a team that has a lot of quality.

Mayo may have addressed their corner forward issue with Evan Regan who looks superb, and I think they are generally a very strong outfit all over the field . I have already said they are one my dark horses in 2016, as too many have fallen into the trap of writing them off because of the past.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 02/05/2016 15:35:06    1851358

Mayo ain't no dark horse, they're a very brightly coloured horse (green & red to be precise) and everyone can see them coming, I can for sure!

KerryKillers (Dublin) - Posts: 711 - 02/05/2016 16:07:34    1851368

Gary the first ball into geaney was a blocked shot and they only kicked one more ball in that he won , I doubt very much they trained all month to kick one high ball into geaney, it wasn't a tactic it was something that just game off during the game. Honestly posters give managers way to much credit when they win and way too much abuse when they lose, once the players cross the white lines it's up to them to deliver the manager can't do anything about a bad wide or kev mac scoring goals it's all on the day.

clondalkindub (Dublin) - Posts: 9926 - 02/05/2016 17:35:39    1851396

Gary the first ball into geaney was a blocked shot and they only kicked one more ball in that he won , I doubt very much they trained all month to kick one high ball into geaney, it wasn't a tactic it was something that just game off during the game. Honestly posters give managers way to much credit when they win and way too much abuse when they lose, once the players cross the white lines it's up to them to deliver the manager can't do anything about a bad wide or kev mac scoring goals it's all on the day.

clondalkindub (Dublin) - Posts:7369 - 02/05/2016 17:35:39

I didn't they trained all month on that specific tactic, but it was one of several weaknesses Fitzmaurice had Identified as something Kerry might exploit. Another would be placing Donaghey on the D, as they clearly seen Durkin sometimes kicked straight out at a low angle. There was no guarantee any of that stuff would work, but it was hoped it might.

Like here is no guarantee that any tactical plan will come off fully out on the pitch, you hope your team get the highest percentage of the breaks and study and plan the fine details in order to make that happen. It only had to happen once, it only had to work once, and in a game of such tight margins, that could be the difference.

You're right about the manager not being able to stop his team hitting wides etc, but he also has a bench at his disposal, allowing him the opportunity to replace somebody who is not firing or not playing well. So while the manager can't control everything, he can definitely influence matters during the game.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 03/05/2016 10:32:00    1851520

As regards Geaney and the first goal ,, O mcNelis fumbled the ball before hand and the loose ball picked up and landed into Geaney. I would not say it was a goal that came off a tactic thought up of by EF. It was just one of them things that happen in most games--- some you win some you don't
On another day MC Nelis would have held on to the ball but that's the way the cookie crumbles.
On looking back over the last few years I think it was Mayo's failure to mark Donaghey when he came in as a sub in the game v Mayo that sent Kerry on their way hat year. Had they got beaten that day I'd have thought a good few Kerry lads( older ones ) would have gone as indeed might the manager. Don't forget Donaghey was finding it hard to make the team at that stage.

SamOnErrigal (Donegal) - Posts: 1427 - 04/05/2016 20:03:11    1852090