Actually realman, I was looking at it from the point of view that even regardless of all the money the USA and GB pump into long distance running they simply can't compete with the likes of Kenya and Ehtiopia.
In GAA, some teams simply have better 'natural' advantages, like you say with Kerry. Dublin have produced wonderful footballers but that's not all down to the advantages they've had over other counties, they can simply produce better footballers because it's in their blood just as much as it is in Kerry's.

keithlemon (Australia) - Posts: 920 - 05/05/2016 12:36:32    1852256

When u consider the massive budget ye have in comparison to them?
In fact given the massive budget ye have in comparison to at least 90% of the country, are Mayo's failings actually on a spectacular level compared to the rest???
Liamwalkinstown

In fairness Liam (and you are one of the better Dublin posters) you might want to take a look at the recent spending per county report and see where Mayo are on that list.
Money can do frig all for you if you don't have proper structures in place and the talent. Roscommon recently raised over 300 k from their NY trip and fair play to them. Counties need to see where they can improve on and off the field besides blaming everyone else.

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11232 - 05/05/2016 12:57:07    1852265

YewTree, i hear you buddy.
u get whats going on tho.
But ya, i hear you

Liamwalkinstown (Dublin) - Posts: 8166 - 05/05/2016 12:58:44    1852268

'In the Blood' is a crazy argument.

Kerry have a tradition, so too have dublin. But it is down to hard work and training that has got them both where they are where they are today. There is no such thing as a team that wins the all ireland due to something being in their blood. This leads onto the next point.

Success breeds confidence and a culture of success is down to the fact that the players can get traction from their previous success. You can conversely get caught in a rut of a losing streak, but you can too get out of it.

In order to get out of a rut or get onto a winning streak, every aspect of your training has to be spot on.

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3830 - 05/05/2016 13:11:21    1852276

Actually realman, I was looking at it from the point of view that even regardless of all the money the USA and GB pump into long distance running they simply can't compete with the likes of Kenya and Ehtiopia.
In GAA, some teams simply have better 'natural' advantages, like you say with Kerry. Dublin have produced wonderful footballers but that's not all down to the advantages they've had over other counties, they can simply produce better footballers because it's in their blood just as much as it is in Kerry's.
keithlemon (Australia) - Posts:264 - 05/05/2016 12:36:32 185

Kerry/Kilkenny are like Cuba in boxing or Jamacia in sprinting or Kenya in Long distance in that they punch way above their weight in certain disciplines and are normal or below average in most other disciplines. You seemed to have missed the point there.

Dublin on the other hand, punch their weight, they have the most people & the most money and dominate...like the US would if the next biggest country in the world was South Africa and there were only another 30 countries in the whole world which were hugely smaller than the U.S.

realman2 (Kildare) - Posts: 464 - 05/05/2016 13:27:38    1852290

Yes but Realman we are not assessing the Olympics, we are assessing one activity. Why are Germany, Italy and Spain so good at soccer, because it's a cultural thing. They apply themselves. Phillipinos are generally fantastic basketball players, why? It's one of the few sports that they play. Think Kilkenny, think Kerry. You can use money to promote sports in the hope that you can alter culture but money alone will not make good athletes. What is your reason for Kildare's woes? They have the population and the money and they are single code?

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 05/05/2016 14:05:52    1852308

But we're only talking about gaelic football and hurling here Realman, how are Kerry and Kilkenny punching above their weight? Both counties have produced players at a high level in their respective sports year in year out

keithlemon (Australia) - Posts: 920 - 05/05/2016 14:50:57    1852328

Best thing about this thread is that 90% of the non Dubs agree that the OP is utter BS and acknowledge that skill and class are the determining factors in our current success
fair play lads

Liamwalkinstown (Dublin) - Posts: 8166 - 05/05/2016 14:52:07    1852330

Yes but Realman we are not assessing the Olympics, we are assessing one activity.

We cannot evaluate one activity with GAA because we are the only ones that play it. If GAA was played in Argentina we could see if the cities there with the biggest population and investment like Dublin are also the ones that win the most trophies. But they don't play GAA in any country but Ireland so the best option is to analyse the biggest sporting event in the world and see what countries excel at them. The answer is the biggest & richest countries just like Dublin is the biggest & richest county in GAA. I don't see how this is so hard to understand.


Why are Germany, Italy and Spain so good at soccer, because it's a cultural thing.

Its a factor, i mean they won't win without an interest culturally in the game but they are also among the richest & largest countries in the world. If Italians lived in a poor country like India where people couldn't afford footballs or a small country like Ireland with a low population would they win world cups? No, of course not, all the countries that won world cups or got to finals are large countries since Uruguay in the 50s.


Think Kilkenny, think Kerry. You can use money to promote sports in the hope that you can alter culture but money alone will not make good athletes.


Money/Investment + population = success ; borne out in sports history time and time again. You see it on the Olympics table, you see in what teams have won World cups. Dublin's resources in money and population are huge over every other county so guess what .... Money/Investment + population = success

What is your reason for Kildare's woes? They have the population and the money and they are single code?

Unfortunately as much as you want it to be Kildare are not relevant. Kildare are not an outlier like Dublin are in terms of population. The money isn't there. It may materialise if people get a sniff of success but there is stench not a sniff at the moment. People don't blackhole their money. In terms of Central council money 50% goes to Dublin so the rest of us live off the scraps and what we can fundraise and as i say people don't blackhole their money.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts:2651 - 05/05/2016 14:05:52 18523

realman2 (Kildare) - Posts: 464 - 05/05/2016 15:19:48    1852344

But we're only talking about gaelic football and hurling here Realman, how are Kerry and Kilkenny punching above their weight? Both counties have produced players at a high level in their respective sports year in year out

keithlemon (Australia) - Posts:265 - 05/05/2016 14:50:57 1852

Yes so they are punching above their weight, they can compete to a level above their resources. I think we have different understandings of what the phrase means.

realman2 (Kildare) - Posts: 464 - 05/05/2016 15:22:09    1852345

So you're saying Kerry are underfunded, lacking in player base, specialized coaches, volunteers, centre of excellence in general or just in comparison to Dublin? I fail to see how the most successful county in Gaelic football history can be regarded as punching above their weight

keithlemon (Australia) - Posts: 920 - 05/05/2016 15:53:25    1852373

keithlemon


In relative terms to Dublin we are well behind in all those factors you mentioned - every single one of them. In comparison to the likes of Mayo Donegal Tyrone we would be on a pretty even level. Cork is hard to judge that even though they have a bigger playing base not only is hurling the dominant game in a huge part of Cork but even in the traditional football areas hurling has begun to grow significantly over the last number of years thus a lot of dual players. While Roscommon and Monaghan definitely below

We have the 14th highest population so a lot of counties (not all granted) could copy and adapt our methods whereas the Dublin model is totally untransferable to anyone else.

KYTitletown (Kerry) - Posts: 816 - 05/05/2016 16:35:45    1852383

Unfortunately as much as you want it to be Kildare are not relevant. Kildare are not an outlier like Dublin are in terms of population. The money isn't there.
___________________________


If some of the money that was invested in horse racing and breeding in Kildare was re-deployed into GAA things would improve.
There is plenty of money in Kildare

avonali (Dublin) - Posts: 1974 - 05/05/2016 16:35:53    1852384

I fail to see how the most successful county in Gaelic football history can be regarded as punching above their weight

Because they have a small population relatively and are in a part of the country (munster) where hurling was the most popular game so they dragged themselves up.

I still think you have a different understanding of the term.

realman2 (Kildare) - Posts: 464 - 05/05/2016 16:56:21    1852394

If some of the money that was invested in horse racing and breeding in Kildare was re-deployed into GAA things would improve.
There is plenty of money in Kildare

avonali (Dublin) - Posts:271 - 05/05/2016 16:35:53 1852384

Yeah possibly. Should we take their money and force them to pay for size 5 O'neills?

People like horse racing and why shouldn't they.

realman2 (Kildare) - Posts: 464 - 05/05/2016 16:58:30    1852397

I think you're just using it in a different context. When you say Kerry 'dragged themselves up', you obviously have a different frame of reference to the rest of us. The most successful team in the history of the sport never dragged themselves up from anything. They are the county that the rest aspire to, Dublin with all their advantages you've described, are still behind them and will be for some time to come.

keithlemon (Australia) - Posts: 920 - 05/05/2016 17:44:38    1852407

have a different frame of reference to the rest of us.
keithlemon (Australia) - Posts:267 - 05/05/2016 17:44:38 1852407

Us? who's with you?

The only other person who posted on your posts was from Kerry and took issue with you said.

realman2 (Kildare) - Posts: 464 - 05/05/2016 17:51:48    1852411

Well folks , there's no doubt about it but ye took the hook line and sinker on this one.
Some folks just can't help themselves so no surprise this is still rolling on.

catch22 (USA) - Posts: 2148 - 05/05/2016 18:13:21    1852417

Good points Yew_tree and Liam but I've made these several times. Realman doesn't want to know about the 'anomalies' like Kilkenny or Kerry or Donegal as it's 'in their blood'. Kildare it seems have the population yet not the money, although they were in the red for 700K a few years ago so God knows what they were spending their money on, magic beans I guess and probably Seanie Johnston's bus fare. 'It's in their blood' is a very neat way of saying that they 'apply themselves' and this is the point that I have been making. Dublin have been doing this the last fee years, introducing a strong hard work ethic and open football philosophy. Donegal have also applied themselves and have modelled their sides on strong work ethic coupled with disciplined defence. Both strategies have worked and perculated down the the under age teams, even to club level. It hasn't taken a huge amount of money it's application. Donegal like others have demonstrated that you can achieve success without population or money by applying yourself. Realman doesn't accept that though.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 06/05/2016 09:08:22    1852470

So apparently a young fella born in Dublin is just naturally a better footballer than a young fella born in Louth! And a young fella born in Kilkenny is just naturally a better hurler than one born in Longford, the "its in the blood argument"

Proof of this is Ehtiopians and Kenyans dominating long distance running compared to say Gb who have a bigger budget

Mother of jaysus thats up with the "God and God only controls the weather" argument we have heard lately.

The ability to perform at long distance running is something thats in the genetical make up of people from different areas of the world. Id suggest reading a book called "born to run" as an example.

There is no genetic make up difference between a fella born in Kilkenny and one born 20 miles over the road in Carlow, likewise with a young fella born in Dublin or 30 mins down the road in Wicklow. Theres no DNA/Genetic altering portal that you go to road from Borris to Goresbridge or the N11 at Fassaroe doesnt alter anything as you go from north to south, god knows i travel it enough and dont feel any difference.

Dublin have an outstanding group of footballers, is it just a natural cycle of having a great team for a few years or something more akin to a period of sustained dominance? no one knows but its looking like the latter imho. Is this period of dominance down to the level of investment in Dublin, again no one knows for definite? Is it a factor?, absoloutley in my eyes, does that make it wrong? absoloutely not. Would this Dublin team be there at its current level without the investment? quite possibly but there will always be that suspicion unfortunately not that they should really care, if it was happening here in sunny south east i wouldnt care. Is the current level of investment in Dublin fair when compared to the rest of the country and in keeping as to what the GAA is all about, no in my eyes and to be fair the majority of Dublin fans i know think the same.

Now im off to tell Mrs Tom for our next child that rather than the 20min trip to Wexford General during labour im advocating a trip through Kiltealy into Borris and onwards to Kilkenny to ensure our next of kin has the correct genetic make up to make it with the hurl in hand, or maybe i might just ensure the gas and air is from Kilkenny along with the bottled water, that might work

tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1339 - 06/05/2016 11:06:57    1852509