Still crapping on about money here with dublin.
If it was up to me id give the money we receive from the gaa to the rest of yis..it would make hammering you all the sweeter then.sure youll be calling for us to split in 2 even then...dublin gives back a whole lot more than it receives from the gaa and thats a fact..

GGdub (Dublin) - Posts: 260 - 30/04/2016 09:34:47    1850824

Dublin at the moment are fortunate that we have a very strong team which has beared fruition from previous winning u21 and minor teams, we now have top footballers in nearly every position, Fenton has made the midfield now very formidable. Costello had added an extra threat up front. John small has helped our defence , Ciaran Kilkenny has turned into the best half forward in Ireland , Playing a sweeper has shored up our defence.
We can now name up to 10 top players on the team who are near the best in the country in their positions.
Possibly like Kerry in the 70s.
On the law of averages resources aside we would be winning most games. Players need guts, heart , drive , focus and natural skill to win 4 leagues and 3 All Irelands in 5 years , this can't be questioned in my honest opinion.
But the research into the importance of diet and rest and certainly training regimes has meant that to avail of all this information and put it into practice costs money.
Dublin have been fortunate that money has not been an issue, so we can extract the most from already very good footballers, with the best training regimes
This then puts this team further ahead of smaller teams in Ireland , especially Leinster which really it is at breaking point.
A provincial for a weaker county in Leinster was once an outside dream, now it's a non runner.

Outside Leinster, Kerry and Mayo are the two big teams who want for nothing either and their qualified staff and training regimes would all be similar to Dublin. Their counties are football mad and resources are usually easily found.
Kildare under mc Geaney would have had the best of nutritional advice and training and a lot of money would have spent trying to keep up with the big boys, they were knocking on the door , but now that's just a slight little tap.
Meath to be honest I don't know, what's happening . They really have become cheerleaders,

Ulster teams are just about keeping up the big boys with not quite the finances , but with pure determination and hard work . Tyrone, Monaghan are a great example of what can be achieved when every one pulls in the right direction. Mickey Harte and Donegal under mc Guinness raised the bar for Ulster teams in the quest of competing and beating the big boys. But obviously it's a challenge every year.
Because Financially to keep up with Kerry and Dublin and to a slightly lesser degree Mayo in the diet and training stakes and not get left behind is a challenge for a lot of counties
Dublin definetly have advantages , it would be silly to say otherwise and the Leinster championship doesn't look like it's going to be pretty this year,
But our achievements over the other top teams in recent years have been top drawer and while state of the art training centres will help in recovery and fitness they wont get you to soar in the air and catch a ball, hit points from difficult angles, play explosive fast over the shoulder football , where all the guys are comfortable with soloing and foot passing, or give you belief when you are down to come back and win a game.
Great players do that.

AthCliath (Dublin) - Posts: 4347 - 30/04/2016 10:17:53    1850836

Superb post AthCliath!

Jackeen (Dublin) - Posts: 4097 - 30/04/2016 11:04:05    1850843

Ath Cliath

Really good and balanced post. Good example using ourselves. We did not get much funding ; Jim McGuinness approached business people himself and raised the money. That has totally dried up now so it was not sustainable .



Joxer - Okay fair enough . Loved visiting Donnycarney myself. I was not having a pop at Dublin as I actually initially stated they're titles are noteworthy - Dublin players work very hard for those.

TheRightStuff (Donegal) - Posts: 1688 - 30/04/2016 12:01:00    1850860

Ath Cliath - your post is Fine and balanced.

The point about money not being able to kick a point is fine but what money can do and is doing is pay for full time coaches. These coaches can go into places in Dublin that were never places that took much part in Gaelic Games like Castleknock and provide huge expertise and know-how, It allowed them to identify and nuture talent earlier and get lads on to county development panels so they don't slip through the net or play other sports. Practically it allows them to buy footballs and goalposts and kit. The more contact you have with a football the better you become.

All this creates a culture of winning, a sexiness and appeal of GAA in the capital overseen by the only high performance director in the history of GAA; Bryan Cullen.

Its quite a cocktail that is likely to change the face of GAA forever.

realman2 (Kildare) - Posts: 464 - 30/04/2016 16:40:40    1850928

If Ballyboden were put into the Junior club c'ship you'd have every Dub on here complaining about the silliness of that idea. And yet the same logic is ignored at inter-county level.

Of course great work has been done, but the vast disparity in resources speaks for itself. Having said that, the present 'efforts' of Meath, Kildare etc. are a bit shambolic.

commercials1 (Limerick) - Posts: 115 - 30/04/2016 18:18:39    1850959

Because Financially to keep up with Kerry and Dublin

I'll need a bit of clarification here because Dublin are on totally different stratosphere financially to Kerry and to suggest otherwise is blatantly false

KYTitletown (Kerry) - Posts: 816 - 30/04/2016 19:28:26    1850992

Because Financially to keep up with Kerry and Dublin

I'll need a bit of clarification here because Dublin are on totally different stratosphere financially to Kerry and to suggest otherwise is blatantly false

KYTitletown (Kerry) - Posts:319 - 30/04/2016 19:28:26 1850992


What about Kerry group?

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3830 - 01/05/2016 11:31:06    1851081

I'll need a bit of clarification here because Dublin are on totally different stratosphere financially to Kerry and to suggest otherwise is blatantly false

KYTitletown (Kerry) - Posts:319 - 30/04/2016 19:28:26 1850992

I talking in the context of preparing a senior team to compete in the Championship.
Kerry players , like Dublin players want for nothing in preparation and recovery, and every avenue to increase performance is investigated, no stone is left unturned to get the best for the players, Training camps if needed are accessable. Kerry have absolutely no issue with money , football is a religion in the county and as well as sponsors the diaspora are very kind . Navillus come to mind and for you to suggest we are on a different stratosphere is false. Figures will always grab the headlines and I don't want to go into how much clubs in Dublin there is because money is so easily swallowed .
Bottom line is as Dublin and Kerry panels prepare for Championship 2016 , both managers will be given everything they need in their preparation to win Sam .

It has to be acknowledged that counties outside Dublin have more guys working and living at different ends of the country and certainly it makes life easier if a coach can get all the squad together for midweek and weekend sessions , and this has to be acknowledged as an advantage, does it make a difference on the field in a close game, I don't know, but everything helps.

Having the squad working in the capital and playing our championship games in the capital in the modern era is an advantage. But again i think these are advantages that unfortunetly push us further ahead of teams that we would possibly beat anyway, difference now is , the element of a shock is completely gone. Thankfully , although only a token gesture we have an away game in championship in Leinster.

If we were constantly losing close games now to Kerry , these advantages would be seen as luxuries and we would be accused of been soft.
We would be told that the Dublin players were just happy to wear the Dublin Jersey and enjoy modern gym facilities,
We would be laughed at and told to take a leaf out of the Kerry boys book , we would be refreshed with tales of the Kerry boys running along Banna strand and how they are kicking a ball with both feet since they could crawl and how ye can't buy skill or determination to keep winning.
Now we are winning , we are accused of buying it,
Sorry it ain't true.

AthCliath (Dublin) - Posts: 4347 - 01/05/2016 14:17:18    1851107

So Dublin have a high performance director? So what!?

Kerry, Mayo and Dublin are well funded outfits.

Ultimately, at the top end of things there is only one thing that separates the top teams. Talent.

Like Mayo lost to Dublin last year because they haven't 3-4 top class forwards. You could have thrown two million quid at Mayo last summer, but Cillian O'Connor is the only real scoring forward they have. Kerry had the forwards, but they've been on the road a while now and are needing new life in that forward line.

Dublin just happen to have the best group of players I've ever seen in a blue shirt at this moment in time. No amount of whining and finger pointing is gonna change that.

Is it fair that Kerry have more money to spend on their footballers than Waterford? Is it fair that Mayo have more money to spend than Leitrim!? No it's not, but guess what, that's the way it's always been.

These advantages were the same advantages that were thrown at Dublin supporters in bars after our annual plummet at the quarter or semi final stage in the noughties. The money, the population etc was a cross nailed onto that Dublin teams back. Dublin were ridiculed. And people expect us to say sorry now we are successful!? All Ireland's aren't easily won. Dublin happen to be in a cycle where they've good players. It won't last forever, so I'm gonna enjoy it while it's here.

Haters are always gonna hate.

Are Dublins recent victories as noteworthy!?

Well the OP was from a guy who talks more about Dublin than his own county. So it was noteworthy to him!!!!

JayP (Dublin) - Posts: 1772 - 01/05/2016 14:58:33    1851117

These coaches can go into places in Dublin that were never places that took much part in Gaelic Games like Castleknock and provide huge expertise and know-how, It allowed them to identify and nuture talent earlier and get lads on to county development panels so they don't slip through the net or play other sports.

Realman2

What total bull, you are one these guys that thinks because he posts therefore its true .
Castleknock a local rival which I must say it kill's me are devouring everything in front of them , there success is down to the people of Castleknock a large number who are from outside of Dublin, they won this years Phelie Div 1 on Saturday Fathers are coaching the team , I have many connections with the club , all teams are managed by parents there numbers are colossal , its as a combination of excellent club management , fantastic parent input , expertise in all roles of running club from there own volunteers and timing at a time when there was a population explosion in the outer castleknock area places like Laurel Lodge grew up people with a vision tapped into something , to say say it has anything to do with Dublin County Board is total bull . Next door my own club whicjh is poorly run with a GPO had only 9 players under 14 to field in div 6 played 3 lost 3 .

Damothedub (Dublin) - Posts: 5193 - 03/05/2016 10:07:46    1851497

Fair enough, you could have just explained without the OTT personal insults but point taken.

Castleknock are well run and have willing volunteers. They are sitting on a booming population which is a great advantage. I do think they are likely to receive a lot of funding from the county board. There's no way of proving me right or wrong so its just my assumption.

GAA accounts in general are not very transparent which is a seperate problem in itself but it would be silly of the county board not to recognise such a success story with such potential.

They did well out of the department of Sport grants anyway: link" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.dttas.ie/sites/default/files/publications/sport/english/sports-capital-allocations-2014/local-grants-allocated-scp-2014.pdf">link

Nothing wrong with that of course but worth remembering volunteers are only one of the necessary ingredients. Cold hard cash is needed to get things done as well

Anyway my post is rambling on so in conclusion i'd urge you not to get so bogged down in the mention of castleknock it may have been a bad example but the overall point is the advantages Dublin have and what road the GAA are getting taken down if their dominance is never-ending.

realman2 (Kildare) - Posts: 464 - 03/05/2016 16:33:26    1851705

Realman2

We get it, you dont like Dublin. But making stuff up isnt the answer either.

Dublin having a good side annoys you. Kildare not being at it the last few years......hasnt been nice for you.

But stop waffling on about money. Money doesnt make good players. You have no evidence.

You have your opinion.

JayP (Dublin) - Posts: 1772 - 03/05/2016 17:01:07    1851713

Realman2

We get it, you dont like Dublin. But making stuff up isnt the answer either.

Dublin having a good side annoys you. Kildare not being at it the last few years......hasnt been nice for you.

But stop waffling on about money. Money doesnt make good players. You have no evidence.

You have your opinion.

JayP (Dublin) - Posts:1388 - 03/05/2016 17:01:07

And you have yours.

Money doesn't make good players yet Jim Gavin has attacked the suggestion that Dublin have their grants watered down...why do you think he would care if money didn't matter?

realman2 (Kildare) - Posts: 464 - 03/05/2016 17:08:53    1851718

AthCliath

A few points in reply

Re: sponsors and. diaspora It is true we have fundraised significant money in the States over the last number of years but as anyone ever involved in fundraising for the GAA or a normal charity knows it requires an awful lot of effort ,sacrifice and outside the box thinking to gain substantial funds. Also other counties similar to ourselves (i.e Mayo and Donegal just 2 examples) have fundraised to huge emigrant populations relative to its native populations.

Re: sponsors we dont have a lorry load of specialised sponsors with our 1 main sponsor being Kerry Group. And trust me as someone who has worked briefly with them and lives near Listowel they are the most prudent organisation I have ever encountered so they certainly aren't a sugar daddy and paying above market value


The truth with Dublin is particularly they didn't need significant extra investment in football (in hurling it was very understandable). If you look at the noughties they were very close and unlucky most years. 2002, 2006,2007 and 2010 come to mind when Dublin easily could have won the AI any of those seasons and it would have only been a matter of time organically before they would have won the Sam Maguire.

Instead the GAA panicked during the mid 00's and ploughed in vast resources into Dublin and as a result completely destroyed the Leinster Championship (which was really competitive in the 70's all the way through into the 00's) and turning its flagship competition into a procession.

Nobody is blaming the Dublin CB as any CB takes what it can get but the GAA is supposed to be the custodian of the game in the 32 counties and supporters and a significant number of top players are turning their back on IC football which is hugely damaging and concerning regarding the future of IC Football which is a huge part of enticing young kids in playing the game.

KYTitletown (Kerry) - Posts: 816 - 03/05/2016 17:17:13    1851724

KYTitletown....

Any monies pumped in aren't likely to have had any bearing on the current make up of the Dublin panel.

Dublin have an exceptional side, which has very little to do with any mid noughties grants. The next ten years is when we can likely conclude your argument about cash in the noughties.

Jimbodub has summed this up numerous times. The GAA reflects society. During times of recession rural life gets hit hardest as people emigrate or populate big cities. The need for grants in these city areas is a necessity to form new clubs or strengthen small ones. Some people on here seem to think Dublin players are helicoptered to training.

Unless people wake up to societal issues influencing sporting issues, we are always gonna have the same argument on HS. The GAA realise that Dublin make a huge contribuition to its overall intake. To let other sports dominate the Dublin landscape would be foolish.

Kildare are in no position to throw stones. Ask some horsey people for a lend of a few bob!

JayP (Dublin) - Posts: 1772 - 03/05/2016 17:52:44    1851738

Good post Jayp. Indeed it's ironic that Kildare is a shining example of pupulation plus money does not equal success. The population of Kildare in 2011 was approx 210,000. Kildare was the fourth most populous county in ROI in 2011, just ahead of Limerick. The Kildare county board spent 1.37 million in the same year. Dublin with 7 times the population of Kildare spent 3.1 million. There are nearly three times as many clubs in Dublin. Kildare's spend per club and spend per population head was much higher. Kildare is a single code county. Where are Kildare positioned just now, 17th in the country! Voila. Population and/or money spend does not equal success. Just ask Geezer and Seanie Johnston.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 03/05/2016 18:20:01    1851747

Dublin have really great footballers, but it is extremely unlikely that the field have suddenly fallen behind the way they have done on face value alone. Is this sour grapes? There always will be a large degree of resentment when a team have good success. But you also have to look at the facts. Dublin GAA are treating the organization as a professional body. There is no such thing as being amateur and having success as an amateur. You have to have access to professional structures in everything but name in order to succeed at this game.

McGuinness was right in his assessment of what it took to win sam. To set up an infrastructure within the county that could match or aspire to what dublin have going on. And unfortunately it is an unsustainable one on the long road.

So are they as noteworthy? Yes they are noteworthy, for several reasons.

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3830 - 04/05/2016 09:29:38    1851825

Good post Jayp. Indeed it's ironic that Kildare is a shining example of pupulation plus money does not equal success. The population of Kildare in 2011 was approx 210,000. Kildare was the fourth most populous county in ROI in 2011, just ahead of Limerick. The Kildare county board spent 1.37 million in the same year. Dublin with 7 times the population of Kildare spent 3.1 million. There are nearly three times as many clubs in Dublin. Kildare's spend per club and spend per population head was much higher. Kildare is a single code county. Where are Kildare positioned just now, 17th in the country! Voila. Population and/or money spend does not equal success. Just ask Geezer and Seanie Johnston.

Thank you for your paragraph on 2011. Here's an article that opposed to yours is actually meaningful because it summaries a much larger time basis (not cherry picking a single year with no source given on the figures used) and doesn't talk about Kildare which has nothing to do with the debate.\

link

Some highlights:

The report which pointed out that Dublin received MORE for games development than all the other 31 counties - rather than 47 per cent of the total, as I'd recalled - turned out to stem from 2014, not 2015.
In fact Dublin received '1.588million in 2012, more than the '1.46m it received over the past two years.

The figures have been similar over the past decade: the games development funding paid to Dublin since a special deal was arranged with the Irish Sports Council in 2005 has now surpassed '16m.

Look at other counties with large urban centres, such as Cork: again, around 40 per cent of Dublin's population, but just five per cent of the funding. Galway, 20 per cent of the population, four per cent of the funding.

There's no doubt that Dublin are the biggest draw, as illustrated by the choices for live broadcasts of league matches. However, All-Ireland Finals always sell out, All-Ireland semi-finals usually do, whether or not Dublin are in them.

realman2 (Kildare) - Posts: 464 - 04/05/2016 11:38:55    1851885

Realman2. 2011 is very relevant. Population census taken that year and population being key to your advantages argument. In 2012 the GAA published it's 2011 accounts for each county board. Kildare is very relevant as it was the fourth most populous county in ROI. It has no hurling distractions of any note so all efforts, similar to Kilkenny in hurling if you like, can be channeled to football. It also spent €1.37m...

http://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/counties-sixfigure-budget-deficits-have-gaa-on-alert-29051723.html

You see buddy you can't just keep ignoring the facts, and ignoring Kildare because it doesn't suit your argument. You can't just point to Dublin and say that this is what money and population achieves yet ignore Kildare who have both but yet have failed miserably. Dublin have always had population and the DCB has never been short of money, they were the first county to secure lucrative sponsorship and Arnotts provided a rich cash flow. The money directed to Dublin for games development is contributing towards payment of salaries to full time coaches. Other counties have this paid by their provincial councils not by their county boards. Do you seriously believe that games development funding given to Dublin in 2005 resulted in the AI panel of 2011?

Look you can maintain that population and money are unfair advantages all day long. Yes Dublin probably is overfunded but the population is huge, there are 350 or so clubs to fund, the battle is on for GAA in the capital where there are a myriad of other sports capturing the youth's imagination but I'll tell you something, Kildare have done nothing with money and population, neither has Cork yet Donegal, Tyrone, Mayo and Kilkenny have proved that you can do anything you wish without either.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 04/05/2016 13:12:16    1851920